
Denver Newsroom, Apr 20, 2020 / 06:05 pm (CNA).- Chris Arnade is the author and photographer of “Dignity: Seeking Respect in Back Row America.”
His book is a look at how many Americans – in rural and urban communities across the country- live. Chris got to know people who often lack a voice in American public life, and his work aims to give them a voice, and a face. He talked with CNA about his book, his faith, and “Back Row America.”
Below is an excerpt, edited and condensed, from CNA’s interview with Arnade. The entire conversation can be heard here.
Chris, what is “Back Row America?”
“Back Row America” describes, in my simple framework, American communities that don’t necessarily define themselves by their resumes or their education.
It’s the part of America that has traditionally gone from high school to, to a job, a lifelong job that gave them the stability to build a family and then attend church regularly and stay in their community. That isn’t a red state or blue state thing. That’s true all across the country.
It’s African-American communities in northern cities, it’s working class rural communities in places like Iowa and Nebraska.
It’s in contrast to what I think is the much more powerful group of people, which I would call, using the classroom analogy, “the front row.”
The elites, if you will, who have spent their career or chasing building a resume, going to all the right institutions and ultimately ending up probably in a few handful of neighborhoods across the United States.
They generally have very large influences in academics, the media and politics and the business world. And I think so much of how we think about America is defined by the front row, when in fact the bulk of Americans would probably find themselves to be more familiar with the back row.
How did you get to know “Back Row America?”
While working on Wall Street in finance, I spent time walking in neighborhoods across New York City. Those walks became a way to meet people I might otherwise never meet. Eventually, I quit my job and spent three and a half or four years in one neighborhood in particular, the poorest neighborhood in New York called Hunts Point in the Bronx.
It was a wonderful neighborhood, I was immediately drawn in by the strong sense of community. At an artistic level as a photographer and it was just simply a great place to photograph because it faces the south, it has good light.
And then it just drew me in.
I spent time with a group of, to use a derogatory term because there’s no other terms, of homeless addicts, who lived in cars or lived in abandoned buildings, under bridges and spent their time making their money by either being a prostitute or stealing things or begging. And many used that money to buy heroin.
And they became the community that taught me for three and a half years.
And then from there I went in my car across the United States, I’ve put roughly about 400 000 miles over four years, just driving all the, around the United States, visiting places that people would tell me not to go to.
Visiting as much of the United States as I could, the parts that I call “back row America” that are not in the news in any other way other than negative. Towns that have lost their industry, inner cities that have never had industry, all sorts of places.
What I try to do in my book is both show what is common in this condition, but that there are variations, so to speak, on the theme and how people reflect their frustration and attempt to find dignity in different ways.
What were the things that you had found in Hunts Point and wanted to look for in other places?
One theme of my book is that the most salient and the biggest division in America right now is the educational divide. We all talk about class divide. We all talk about the racial divide. But I think the education divide is as important, if not stronger currently.
And that division is not just about how we vote, but it’s about how we view the world, and how we think about what is valuable in this world, and how we think about what gives us meaning. So, at a very deep level, what’s our philosophy? And what is our worldview?
And then that, if you are in the back, and that the front row controls things now. They generally are the “in” group. They define stuff. And it’s the back row who is the one who is suffering from the decisions made by the front row, who have a very narrow worldview that they can’t seem to think beyond.
If they do think beyond it, it usually means they either want to study the back row as sort of a scientific specimen or they want to pity them and save them without questioning their worldview.
And people know when they’re being laughed at. The front row isn’t directly laughing at people. But there is this sense of, again, when they view the back row, it’s often viewed as people who are wounded, to be pitied and helped, as opposed to people to be listened to as equals.
Your book talks about some values that exist more clearly in the back row, a sense of place, a sense of obligation to the family, and people, and connectedness. Even a different sense of what matters in life; what it’s for.
Yeah. I mean, I always use the example of the young woman I met in a McDonald’s in East L.A. And, if you read the book, you’ll know that I spent a lot of time in McDonald’s.
Because a lot of people who don’t have a lot of money spend a lot of time in McDonald’s because it has free wifi, and inexpensive food, and cheap.
So, I would see this young woman at McDonald’ss. I would be there each night to type up my notes and she was there because… I had seen her all over the country, variations of her, she was there to use the free wifi because she didn’t have wifi at home. She or her family was too poor.
So, she would come in every night with her Game Boy and her computer, and charge both of them, and play on the internet, or do homework, or mostly just play her Game Boy, or her Switch, or whatever she had.
And so, eventually she got curious about me and asked and said, “You’re from New York City.” I told her I was from New York City.
She said she would love to go there. And I said, “Well, you’re college age.”
She said, “Well, I’m going to college here at East L.A. Community College. And I need to stay here because I’m my mother’s translator.”
Her mother was a Mexican-American immigrant. And, like a lot of immigrants, the oldest child is the one who speaks both languages and is necessary to fill out forms, navigate the country.
So, she was making a decision that I think we as a broader culture should applaud. She was staying there for her family.
But I think we look at people’s decisions in what I would call a “resume arms race.” Everybody has to be building a resume. And, in that process, which is a very narrow way of thinking about success, it’s all about getting credentialed so you can make more money.
It’s a very, very material definition of success.
For people who don’t value that, who don’t want the value of that very narrow framework, you have to give up the non-material forms of meaning like place, family, and faith, because those are considered to be in opposition to this arms race of building the best resume. And so, I think it’s particularly an elitist view.
Being materialistic is very much an elitist view of the world because one of the things we’re all gifted at birth is these values and these meanings that don’t require a resume to have, like family, like place, and like faith. You don’t need a resume into the church. You don’t need a resume to find beauty in your local community or to be a member of your family.
Chris, could you talk about faith in the back row?
I came into this project an atheist. I certainly wasn’t a nasty atheist. I was very always respectful of other people’s faiths and views. But, in the back of my mind, I would have laughed at somebody who was religious, or at least thought maybe they should learn a little. And then, certainly by the end of the project, I wouldn’t call myself religious, but I do go to church.
In the project I spent a lot of time in McDonald’s because that’s where the people I was learning from spent time. And likewise with churches, I spent a lot of time in churches because that’s where the people I spent time with went.
I went to every denomination. I tried to try to go to the denominations that were most reflective of the community I was in. I tried to go to the churches that I guess, I think, theologically would probably be considered in the back row.
Places that had improvised spaces. So, there was one that was a former… I think it was a former Kentucky Fried Chicken, had been turned into a church. Another was an old gas station that had been turned into a church. Another was an old furniture store in a strip mall. Another was someone’s house.
I came away personally moved by the experience… this was a very important part of people’s lives. It was just wrong of me at many levels to dismiss it as nothing more than just a silly way of living, but also, at a personal level, I came away realizing that there was a lot there that I didn’t appreciate.
What is important when churches minister to back row America?
I mean, I think from a purely pragmatic standpoint, I think the most important thing about the church is that they get people they’re preaching to.
You go into a nonprofit in these communities or you go into these secular institutions, and they’re not made up of people from the community. They’re often outsiders who are well-intentioned. There’s nothing wrong with that, being an outsider who’s well-intentioned, but with a few exceptions, most of them haven’t gone through a rough life, haven’t experienced a lot.
You go in the churches, and it’s their people. It’s their community. They get them, at not just at an intellectual level but a lived reality level.
Also, that faith is a way to live that gives people guidance. Answers that give people a structure.
The first level of academica getting religion is pragmatic. They’ll simply view it as something that’s useful. I think the second level, which is much deeper and much more real, is to see it as something that isn’t just useful but also so powerful and true. My own intellectual journey was getting beyond the first level of, “Oh, it’s just a useful thing,” a scientific solution, like, “Oh, these poor people have religion. That’s good for them because it’s useful,” and moving on to the next, which is to see a religious worldview as equally valid to how I think about things.
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I think to a large degree that the Catholic Church has done a pretty good job of understanding the people it serves.
I often went to Catholic churches as well, because I consider myself Catholic, and when traveling, I would like to go to different churches, and I think one of the things that did frustrate me is I can walk into a church and within half a minute tell you how wealthy the neighborhood around me is. You can just see by the amount of donations given. I mean, the donation differences are just staggering. You get some churches that collect $7,000 a week and others that collect $35 a week.
I think some outreach between [rich and poor Catholics] would be helpful. I think… and certainly, the people in the wealthier congregations and parishes having a little more understanding of their privilege and how the experience of being a Catholic might be different if you’re in El Paso, for instance.
Do you have expectations for how things might change for the back row as a result of where we are right now, in terms of the pandemic and the resulting economic collapse? I’ve hoped it will lead to a greater sense of solidarity among people.
I’m probably about as cynical as I’ve ever been about it right now. I hate to try to throw water on your fire, but I mean, I’m looking at how the pandemic’s playing out, and it’s becoming a disease of the poor. All the solutions we proposed, as much as I agree with them, are pretty comfortable for the wealthy and pretty uncomfortable for the poor.
Sheltering in place, I think the word “place” covers a lot of ground there that we tend not to think about, but I certainly hope at a philosophical level that we come out of this, that people who can shelter in a nice place maybe understand that that’s a privilege and that it’s much easier for them to do that — come out of this with a greater awareness of how hard this is for a lot of people.
What can people do?
I mean, that’s the problem is, with a pandemic, there’s not much we can do right now other than recognize privilege and hopes going forward that we take that into account when we think about judging other people for not doing what we’re doing, or scolding them for taking walks outside, or wanting to go to church in some capacity when the pandemic eases going to some sort of limited service.
I think we need to get back to being social again, probably before the credentialed experts tell us is a good time. I respect people enough to believe that they can make their own choices and see what’s right.
I think, in the longer term though, one of my biggest frustrations with my book, and I think a lot of readers’ frustrations is I don’t offer solutions, because I’m not sure I know them.
I don’t know how you get people en masse to start saying, okay we need to value things differently. I think, one person at a time. If somebody in a comfortable suburb recognizes that their parish or their congregation is well off and others aren’t, I mean that’s the first step. Make a personal decision about how you think you can best address that.
I think it’s important to treat people, everybody you meet, with respect, and again not pity them. I think many people look at those who are in the back row as people who need to be saved or changed, and maybe the best thing to do is just listen to them and give them the dignity of actually treating them like an equal.
That means sometimes not liking them. You don’t have to like everybody. When people ask “What can I do with the homeless person?” And I say like, “Have a conversation with them. Treat them like a normal person. If you don’t like them, you don’t like them.”
Chris, if you don’t mind my asking, having gone through this experience, what do you pray for and what do you encourage other people to pray for?
What I pray for changes. I still hear from a lot of people who I wrote about in the book, who have my phone number and text me all the time. I pray for them, and for my family.
I guess, my greatest hope from this whole thing is that the reader comes away with an understanding that, in very rare instances, almost everybody who reads this book is going to have more privilege than the people in the book. And so, a little perspective. When it comes down to it, it’s the old phrase, “Before you judge somebody, walk a mile in their shoes.” I pray that message gets into people, that they can see that they themselves probably have a lot better than they realize.
And before you judge somebody, again, know what they’ve gone through.
This was an edited excerpt from a longer conversation between Chris Arnade and CNA. The entire conversation can be heard here.
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Kudos to Bishop Barron!
Amen!🙏
It would be nice if the Bishop could be a little less of a cheerleader for Trump? Balance anyone?
Who would you rather he be a cheerleader for? President Kamala Harris?! Not likely, or for any other Democrat because almost all of the Democrats involved in politics or who currently serve in office are PRO-CHOICE, even to the point of allowing abortion through all nine months! (One exception is Dan Lipinski in Illinois, who served as Representative to Congress from 2005-2021, when radical Democrats who hated his pro-life stand and other conservative-leaning stands forced him out of office, no doubt with the votes of many dead Illinoisians. I know there are a still a few pro-life politicians in the Democratic Party–but only a few. Those dead Illinoisians vote for their extremely-liberal Democrat friends! (Actually I hope those dead Illinoisians are HAUNTING the Gov. Pritzker and his pals!)
First Lady Trump has been a Catholic all her life, and IMO, she is responsible for Donald Trump’s departure from his past “pagan” ways (which were often publicized in the tabloids–and were true!) and his entry into U.S. politics, including running for President. He could have spent all his time playing golf and attending rich people parties, but he chose to give all that up and serve his country.
Donald Trump has been a supporter with large financial donations to various charities and “good causes” for decades. E.g., years ago, a figure skating coach started a club in Harlem (NYC) for African American, Hispanic, and other girls who lived in Harlem. She spent her own money, and if you know anything about figure skating, it’s one of the most expensive sports–a pair of good figure skates will cost several hundred dollars, even a few thousand dollars, and a good coach will earn a salary of around $40-$80/lesson or more. The coach used all her savings and much of her income to try to keep the club afloat, and eventually, started appealing to various wealthy people in NYC. Pres. Trump (who for some reason has an interest in figure skating that he doesn’t publicize), stepped in and paid the bills for this organization for several months, and eventually other celebrities (possibly because of his involvement) got involved–and now the Board that helps govern and fundraise for FSH consists of other wealthy people, movie stars, and even Al Roker–who also attends the FSH ice shows and occasionally the competitions. FSC in Harlem has seen 99% of their skaters graduate from high school and avoid run-ins with the law or with drugs, and a sizeable percentage of these skaters (mainly girls) go on to earn college degrees and even advanced degrees–and then start giving back to the organization that gave them hope and helped THEM become high achievers. I think this act of charity, never publicized, makes it obvious that Donald Trump is worth “cheering” for, and I can’t help but wonder what other organizations he has stepped in and personally “Saved” with donations and encouragement. Oh, I know, he’s far from a moral paragon, but…he has been willing to step up and give up a retirement of golf and relaxation to spend many hours every day and even risk his life serving his country.
Also, please remember that none of Pres. Trump’s 5 children have been involved in any type of scandal or questionable behavior, and during his first term, when various media moguls started questioning Barron’s mental state (there was even conjecture among liberals and Democrats that the quiet young boy might be mentally-ill or worse), First Lady Trump moved herself and Barron OUT of the White House into their private apartment at the top of Trump Towers and had the boy schooled there–and obviously, Barron has turned out to be a fine young man. I remember at a funeral of one of family’s relatives died, Barron took his father’s arm and helped him up onto a curb at one point during or perhaps after the funeral–just a little gesture of kindness and respect, but what a difference between Barron Trump and Pres. Biden’s wayward son! Barron apparently ran the campaign to young voters during the 2024 campaign, and he was very successful.
You may not feel up to “cheering” for Pres. Trump, but recognize, please, the good things that he accomplished in his first term, and all the good things he HOPES to accomplish in his second term–barring constant interference and scandal-mongering from the Democrats “serving” (themselves?) in public office.
Trump is a disaster. A pseudo Fascist trying to institute a dictatorship. Barron is a Bishop thus should not be va cheerleader for either party.
Bishop Barron has an authentically Catholic intellectual and spiritual center from which he operates and so he will be a voice of reason and moderation on the Commission which might otherwise drift toward theocratic overreach and/or be dominated by an idolatrous form of Christian nationalism that needs to be checked. If he were any less Trump-friendly, he would not even have a seat at the table. Bishop Barron will make a sound, rational, principledcase for religious liberty and freedom of conscience, which is what we need–not a brash MAGA triumphalism that energizes secularists.
When Cupich and Tobin were cheerleaders for Biden were you as concerned? And serving on a commission is hardly cheerleading. Barron didn’t give TV interviews during the campaign like those two cardinals did.
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. How about bringing a little balance to your own perspective before judging others?
I see Bishop Barron beat up on regular basis by folks on either extreme, William. To me that suggests he’s balanced.
If both extremes attack you, you must be doing something right.
“‘What [Tolkkinen] and her colleagues fear the most are confident and assertive religious people who refuse to stay sequestered in private'”.
Example: Bishop Barron.
May his tribe increase.
But, but, sputter, sputter! We DO have an “established” national religion!
The subterfuge has been that Congress didn’t establish it. Rather, under the other two Executive and the Judicial Branches of government, Secular Humanism is now established. Note previous Executive Orders, decisions of the United States Supreme Court, e.g., Obergefell v. Hodges and, formerly, Roe v. Wade; and the more recent DEI agenda under the Department of Education and school bureaucracies at the State level.
The First Amendment restrains only Congress from establishing a national religion, but the Founding Fathers never guessed at the need to restrain the other two branches of the federal government, or the States.
The Religious Liberty Commission is not setting the clock back; it’s setting the clock right.
I have to agree with Mr. Beaulieu above that Secular Humanism is the de facto state religion, and not just in the U.S.
I would love to see Bishop Barron elevated to the Cardinalate. Loads of respect for him.
I’d like to see that, too. Bishop Barron does a great deal of good & he does much good behind the scenes also.
Sometimes when you read the comments you understand that projection isn’t just for devices in movie theatres.
Sheesh.
The valued signal from Bishop Barron rings true to the masses.
I must disagree with his appointment to Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission. Aligning with Trump’s leanings toward an autocracy could be enough, but his immoral penchant, spewing lies and hatred, resulting in violence, further darkens the image of a convicted felon, which should make any man of the cloth take pause. Moreover, hundreds of thousands of citizens demonstrating across the country, decrying the harsh and unlawful tactics.
Trump’s flawed mass deportation will never reach its goal. There are 11 million migrants in the US. VP John Donald Vance, a Catholic convert, said we will deport one million per year. 11 years? I ask Why are ICE “officers” wearing masks? Seems like there are ICE agents in every city. What is that costing us?
Moreover, the appointment of Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (Chair) also causes me concern. Patrick has been a stalwart in trying to eliminate Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, and Critical Race Theory that are used to advance people of color. “Color blindness”? Also, Affirmative Action. I may be wrong, but all seem to hit on one note: suppression of non-whites. The voices for these classes seem to echo louder. “Driving brown beware” I admit I am not deeply educated on the subjects. So, please correct me.
Bishop Barron: Dictator “Relativism is a poison. It attacks our most human capacity, the capacity to seek and know the truth, including the moral truth. A dictatorship of relativism imposes by real cultural force (and even by political force) a no-standard standard, a command that all must imbibe this poison.”
The First Amendment to the Constitution prevents Congress from establishing a national religion — a position Barron agrees with — the second clause in the amendment bars Congress from interfering with the free exercise of religion.
Bishop Barron: Fight hard against any formal establishment of religion, but fight just as hard for the right to exercise religion in the public space.” Right on!
Recent news. Trump’s/Noem’s ICE runs rampant, AGAIN: ICE Masked Border Patrol agents detain a landscaper Narciso Barranco, after repeatedly hitting him and throwing him to the ground. He is the father of three sons who are all U.S. Marines.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/santa-ana-landscaper-detained/
The Catholic Church has been very vocal regarding Trump’s mass deportation plan. I would like to know Bishop Barron’s opinion.
I ask Why are ICE “officers” wearing masks? ”
*****
What do you guess law enforcement agents wear masks for? Who might want to retaliate against them?
mrsc. I think you hit on the essence of my post. However, your eyes might be wide shut. I don’t mean to be rude, but I cannot find anything to support your hyperbole, just the opposite.
Reuters: Every day, in communities nationwide, police officers do their jobs with a high degree of transparency: The public can see the officers’ faces, badge numbers, rank and, in most instances, even their last names featured on uniforms. Though many cops are forced to deal with threats and violence, there isn’t a police department in the United States that allows officers to wear masks or hide their identities while they carry out day-to-day duties.
Thanks for your reply.
Bishop Barron stands head and shoulders above so many in the episcopate with his depth theological insight and his common sense. He is an authentic gift to the Church, domestically and internationally. He requires a more significant responsibility for the benefit all of us. We can be grateful that his voice is heard on the Religious Liberty Commission.
God willing, his talents will soon be recognized by a significant advancement in Church leadership.
God reward him.
morganD above – James David Vance.
An argument is only as strong as its weakest “fact”.
Sorry, Cleo. My keyboard is a challenge. I meant John Donald Vance.
Thanks.
The “Excited States” has many national religions – greed, lust, envy, etc,…..