Washington, D.C. Newsroom, May 21, 2025 / 17:02 pm (CNA).
In a sit-down interview with the New York Times’ Ross Douthat, Vice President JD Vance opened up about how his Catholic faith informs his political views and how he squares his religious beliefs with his hard-line views on immigration enforcement.
Vance, an outspoken convert to the faith, appeared on Douthat’s “Interesting Times” podcast while the two were in Rome for Pope Leo XIV’s inaugural Mass this past weekend. Douthat, who is also a convert to Catholicism, is a conservative columnist at the Times.
During the interview, Vance discussed how his faith and Catholic social teaching contribute to his views on governance. Yet, he also explained why he believes an American vice president cannot simply “do everything the Holy Father tells me to do” because of his obligations to serve the interests of the American people.
A Catholic American approach to governing
“When you really believe something, it ought to influence how you think about the way that you do your job, the way that you spend time with your wife and your children,” Vance said. “It just kind of necessarily informs how I live my life.”
Regarding governing, this philosophy means he thinks “the purpose of American politics” is “to encourage our citizens to live a good life.”
Vance said his faith informs his care for “the rights of the unborn” along with his belief in “dignified work,” where a person has “a high enough wage that [he or she] can support a family.”
On family policy, Vance said he fears that American and other Western societies have “become way too hostile to family formation,” contending that they “have been quite bad at supporting families over the last generation, and I think you see that in the fact that fewer people are choosing to start families.”
Vance added that he has faced criticism from the political right for being “insufficiently committed to the capital-M market.” Although he said “I am a capitalist,” he said he is not in principal against all interventions in the marketplace and cited the administration’s tariff policies as an example.
“I think one of the things that I take from my Christian principles and Catholic social teachings — specifically whether you agree with the specific policies of our administration — is the market is a tool, but it is not the purpose of American politics,” the vice president said.
Vance also discussed the potential benefits and drawbacks of developments in artificial intelligence (AI) and said he looks forward to Pope Leo providing moral guidance on these questions.
“The American government is not equipped to provide moral leadership, at least full-scale moral leadership, in the wake of all the changes that are going to come along with AI,” he said. “I think the Church is. This is the sort of thing the Church is very good at.”
Vance said he disagrees with the view that policy and religion are “two totally separate matters … because it understates the way in which all of us are informed by our moral and religious values.” Yet, he also said that taking direct orders from the Vatican on policy matters “would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution.”
“My obligation more broadly as a vice president [is] to serve the American people,” Vance said.
During his time in Rome, he said, “I’m not there as JD Vance, a Catholic parishioner” but rather “I’m there as the vice president of the United States and the leader of the president’s delegation to the pope’s inaugural Mass.”
“So some of the protocols about how I respond to the Holy Father were much different than how I might respond to the Holy Father, or how you might respond to the Holy Father purely in your capacity as a citizen,” Vance told Douthat.
For example, the vice president said he did not bow down to kiss Leo’s ring. Although that is a common act of respect for the pontiff, he noted that kissing the ring of a foreign leader would be against the protocol for an American vice president.
“So, no sign of disrespect, but it’s important to observe the protocols of the country that I love and that I’m representing and that I serve as vice president of, the United States,” he added.
When explaining this balance, Vance said he does not “just disregard” positions of Church hierarchy but that “you make a prudential judgment informed very much by the Church’s teachings as reflected by these leaders.”
The dignity of migrants and immigration enforcement
One of the primary issues on which President Donald Trump’s administration has sparred with the Vatican and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) is the enforcement of American immigration laws.
During the first four months of Trump’s presidency, he has clamped down on illegal border crossings, halted the entry of most refugees, stripped federal funding from nongovernmental organizations (including Catholic ones) that resettle migrants, and vowed mass deportations of those who are in the country illegally.
These policies have been criticized by Catholic charitable organizations, the USCCB, Pope Francis, and then-Cardinal Robert Prevost, who is now Pope Leo XIV.
On U.S. immigration policy, Vance noted that the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Catholic leaders acknowledge “the right of a country to enforce its borders” but also emphasize the need to respect “the dignity of migrants.” He said: “You have to be able to hold two ideas in your head at the same time.”
“There are obligations that we have to people who in some ways are fleeing violence, or at least fleeing poverty,” the vice president said. “I also have a very sacred obligation, I think, to enforce the laws and to promote the common good of my own country, defined as the people with the legal right to be here.”
Vance said he spoke with “a lot of cardinals this weekend” about immigration policy and “had a lot of good, respectful conversations, including with cardinals who very strongly disagree with my views on migration.”
“The point that I’ve tried to make is I think a lot about this question of social cohesion in the United States,” he said. “I think about how we form the kind of society again where people can raise families, where people join institutions together.”
The vice president argued that proponents of mass migration do not recognize “how destructive immigration at the levels and at the pace that we’ve seen over the last few years is to the common good” and that “I really do think that social solidarity is destroyed when you have too much migration too quickly.”
“That’s not because I hate the migrants or I’m motivated by grievance,” he said. “That’s because I’m trying to preserve something in my own country where we are a unified nation. And I don’t think that can happen if you have too much immigration too quickly.”
Vance became Catholic in August 2019, when he was 35 years old, and is the second Catholic vice president of the United States. Former president Joe Biden was the first when he served under former president Barack Obama from 2008–2016.
If you value the news and views Catholic World Report provides, please consider donating to support our efforts. Your contribution will help us continue to make CWR available to all readers worldwide for free, without a subscription. Thank you for your generosity!
Click here for more information on donating to CWR. Click here to sign up for our newsletter.
About Catholic Social Teaching and the market system, Pope St. John Paul II also stressed “the fact that even the decision to invest in one place rather than another, in one productive sector rather than another is always ‘a moral and cultural choice'” (Centesimus Annus, 1991, n. 36).
And then this overview when asked about “capitalism” as a replacement for fallen Soviet Communism:
“The answer is obviously complex. If by ‘capitalism’ is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a ‘business economy,’ ‘market economy’ or simply ‘free economy.’ But if by ‘capitalism’ is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a ‘strong juridical framework’ which places it at the service of ‘human freedom in its totality,’ and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the ‘core of which is ethical and religious,’ then the reply is certainly negative” (n. 44).
What, then, about affirming the transcendent dignity of each human life versus the marketing or even subsidizing of mifepristone and IVF?
#1. Catholics should be reminded that J.D. Vance would have been the 3rd Catholic VP if it weren’t for the fact that Catholic Mike Pence left the Catholic faith and became a Protestant.
#2. How long will it take before the usual ones on these pages with terminal cases of TDS weigh in with their vitriol?
#3. If our Catholic Church wants to adhere to Catholic Social Teaching regarding immigration, let our Catholic leaders first honor the principle of obeying the laws of a country with regard to its borders. The fact is that the USA allows more LEGAL immigration to our country than any other country in the world. We just don’t want foreigners coming here whose first act on our soil is to break our laws. Secondly, if the Vatican want free movement of peoples into other countries, the Vatican needs to remove all the walls around Vatican City.
#4. The Catholic Church is missioned for charity to the poor. That’s good and proper. But the Catholic Church should never use other people’s money for the Church’s charity work without their explicit permission.
#5. J.D. Vance is a lot smarter and in many cases more ethical than so many of our bishops – none of whom were elected to their offices by huge majorities of the Catholic constituency.
Love everything you said!The Vatican has walls to protect– so USA should not bend either….come in legally- no problem, remember 9/11
Diogenes, #5 “huge “80% “ or more?
First off, ‘Diogenes’, you’re no Mankowski; your posts are especially lacking in his biting wit.
Second, is it TDS to point out Vance’s gung-ho support IVF and his touting access to mifepristone under a Trump presidency or are these inconvenient truths that you want memory-holed?
Vince, a bit prickly I see.
Two great points!
Two great points — IVF and mifepristone.
More ethical? “Haitians are eating dogs in Springfield, Ohio”. Governor Mike DeWine, “FALSE”. John Donald Vance still insists on this obvious lie.
All citizens can now release their dogs. That might expose cats and chickens.
That story was actually found to be true, which you wouldn’t know from your MSNBC talking points. The citizens of Springfield didn’t lie.
First Principles matter in both Faith and Morals. Since Christ Is The King of Kings , we can know through both Faith and Reason, that there is nothing in our Catholic Faith that precludes us from being Good Citizens in Heaven and on Earth. As Citizens of The United States, we recognize that God, with the capital G, The Most Holy And Undivided Blessed Trinity, In The Unity Of The Holy Ghost, Is The Author of our inherent unalienable Right to Life, to Liberty, and to The Pursuit of Happiness, the purpose of which can only be, what God intended. Thus we can know through both our Catholic Faith and reason, that The Catholic Faith can only serve to enhance our understanding of the spirit of our Constitution because it is grounded in The Spirit Of Divine Law, which is grounded in The Spirit Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love, Who Proceeds From The Father And His Only Begotten Son, and thus it is this Love that Gives us Life, The Love Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love , Who Has The Ability To Bring us from death, to Life Everlasting , Eternal Joy And Happiness With The Blessed Trinity, The Author Of Love, Of Life, And Of Marriage, And Thus The Truth Of Love That Is Necessary For Human Flourishing For All. Only The Creator Of All that is, seen and unseen, knows what will bring us Eternal Joy Happiness, And Human Flourishing. America cannot be great if it does not affirm that God Is The Author Of Love, Of Life, And Of Marriage, And Render Onto God, That Which Belongs To God.
The cardinals who were giving Mr. Vance a hard time about his “hard-line views on immigration enforcement” have blood on their hands.
They share in the responsibility for the deaths of more than a hundred thousand Americans killed by fentanyl smuggled in over the non-existent border.
And I cannot believe how deficient the Catholic hierarchy is on economics.
But then leftists have never understood the genius of capitalism.
They view work in a capitalistic system as nothing more than a burden, an occasion for the exploitation and predation of workers.
It somehow escapes them that the reason the standard of living goes up in a country is that workers are producing products and services — the good things that make people’s lives better and make societies thrive.
The fact is, leftists always focus on money. But, quite obviously, money produces nothing. It’s people spending their days working their jobs who bring the good life.
At its core, leftism is unfair. In a financial system of distributive equity, everyone receives “the resources they need” — which always sounds wonderful. After all, who wants to see people in poverty?
But when everyone receives “enough,” it means that the lazy, unproductive, unreliable workers get the same pay as the dedicated, diligent, hard-working workers.
And psychologists will tell you that in a system that does not recognize and reward outstanding performance, the best participants come to understand that their extra efforts are wasted. And they will inevitably begin reverting to the mean — lackadaisical, subpar performance.
Which is why socialist countries always end up as varying degrees of gray, depressing and impoverished.
It’s inevitable.
Think about it. In Venezuela, all the workers — and the layabouts, for that matter — have “enough” money for “the resources they need.”
Just one problem. There aren’t enough of those “resources.”
The fact that everyone gets “enough” money, whether they work or not, ensures that many don’t work. And so there are severe shortages of products — including food — throughout the country. All the time.
And so what is your money worth when there’s nothing to buy, Mr. Leftist?
Leftists have no concept that capitalism’s genius is to align the interests of the individual with the interests of society.
People are rewarded for their hard work and productivity. And society benefits accordingly.
And people are also rewarded for their good ideas for new products or services — personal computers, online shopping, iPhones, whatever — according to the value that others place on them.
Finally, while leftists are obsessed with money, they have no idea of what money really is.
Money is a societally recognized abstraction for value produced. When a worker completes a job, he has delivered something that is of value to someone. That value created is reflected in the pay he receives.
When many workers create much value — producing food, fixing cars, replacing roofs, whatever — wealth is created. There’s lots of money to spread around, leading to more economic growth and cultivating a robust and prosperous economy.
When you hold a $100 bill in your hand, you’re in a very real sense touching the time and imagination and lives of countless individuals who contributed to all of the value which that bill has delivered since it was first created.
Leftists understand none of this.
Which is why socialist societies always, always, *always* end up oppressing their citizens.
For socialism to succeed, people must be forced to act in ways that are against their best interests. Whereas, under capitalism, people are free to pursue their best interests, wherever they perceive those interests leading them.
So what about the unfortunate individuals who for whatever reason are left behind in poverty within capitalist economies?
That’s where charity comes in. Virtue. Compassion.
Or, if you prefer, Christianity.
It’s worth noting that charity is also ennobling to those on both ends of the transaction, both the giver and the receiver. The giver feels good about helping someone, and the receiver feels worthwhile because he’s being blessed by a personal gesture of fellowship by another.
Charity is a virtue and is, therefore, of God.
Whereas government entitlements tend to rob an individual of his sense of accomplishment, of self-respect, of satisfaction. In fact, government handouts can prompt people to feel like victims and sullenly resent those who have more. In this way, they’re able to justify to themselves their dependency.
The sad fact is, distributive equity’s real effect is to make sure that everyone has “enough” of the scarcity, the poverty, and the starvation it inevitably produces.
Remember that Jesus never compelled anyone to act virtuously. He respected the dignity of each individual, realizing that coercion is the absolute end of virtue.
Perhaps it’s time to expect governments, which are definitively *not* divine, to act with at least the same level of restraint shown by the Savior of the universe.
You’d think Catholic cardinals would understand these very simple concepts. Because when societies get politics and economics wrong, terrible things happen to people.
Dear Briny. I am uncomfortable with labels. Generally, they are too inclusive. Daming all and championing the “saved”.
I sorta agree with you, but the use of “LEFT”, (Dems?), exclusively causes me to reflect on the “RIGHT”, (GOP), the anointed ones.
Most of us want to see our elected officials succeed. If they do not we lose. However, in a democracy, it is imperative that we hold them to account. VP Vance seems to be duplicitous as he adheres more to the Trump ideology when that ideology reeks with sin. Vance made a fool of himself when he said, “Haitians were eating dogs in Springfield, Ohio.
Trump calls Un, Xi and Putin, the war criminal who continues to slaughter Ukrainian babies, “Brilliant leaders.” His VP remains silent.
Thank you.
God save the Union.
The problem with capitalism is its extremes. Our society was better off when money had more value.
Vatican Promises Stiff Penalties for Illegal Aliens Crossing its Border
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/01/16/vatican-promises-stiff-penalties-for-illegal-aliens-crossing-its-border/
And I would add, since it is True, That The Holy Ghost, The Lord And Giver Of Life Who Proceeds From the Father And The Son, Is Of The Same Essence of The Father And His Only Begotten Son, That Essence Being, In Essence Perfect Divine Eternal Love, all Faithful Catholics can know through both Faith and reason that The Holy Ghost , would never Bless a sinful relationship in any way, shape, or form because , “We have been ransomed for a cost, The Cost being our Salvation.
The Christ.
“A New Commandment I Give unto you : that you Love one another as I Have Loved you, that you also Love one another.”
https://biblehub.com/drb/john/13.htm
What possible reason could a Faithful Catholic have for not desiring to share The Good News, unless it is that they are simply not Faithful?
We cannot transform Jesus The Christ, The Word Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love Incarnate; Christ Transforms us through Salvational Love, God’s Gift Of Grace And Mercy, available to all those who desire to repent and accept God’s Salvational Love, God’s Gift Of Grace And Mercy.
At the heart of Liberty Is Christ, “4For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come…”, to not believe that Christ’s Sacrifice On The Cross will lead us to Salvation, but we must desire forgiveness for our sins, and accept Salvational Love, God’s Gift Of Grace And Mercy; believe in The Power And The Glory Of Salvation Love, and rejoice in the fact that No Greater Love Is There Than This, To Desire Salvation For One’s Beloved.
“Hail The Cross, Our Only Hope.”
“Blessed are they who are Called to The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb.”
“For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”
And that my friends is the way you can discern a True Vicar of Christ who has both the ability and desire to accept The Office of The MUNUS and thus The Ministerial Office, and an apostate that belongs to the counterfeit church with its counterfeit magisterium, that for sometime now has been attempting to subsist within The One Body of Christ, while denying The Unity Of The Holy Ghost, The Spirit Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love Between The Father And His Only Begotten Son, Who Proceeds From Both The Father And His Only Begotten Son, In The Ordered Communion Of Perfect Complementary Divine Eternal Love, The Most Holy Blessed Trinity.
“They went out from us but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us: but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.” (1 John 2.19)
Now that it is crystal clear that a counterfeit church with a counterfeit magisterium that denies The Holy Blessed Trinity Is The Author Of Love, Of Life, And Of Marriage, let us Pray that Pope Leo XIV, is a True Vicar Of Christ, And With The Grace Of The Holy Ghost, will charitably Anathema the counterfeit church, for The Salvation of Souls.
Some have noted that Vice President Vance may have missed the deeper point about kissing the Fisherman’s Ring. It’s not a diplomatic ritual, nor mere protocol—it is a liturgical gesture, older than nations, and richer than etiquette. One does not bow to a man, but to a mystery: the authority of Christ entrusted to frail human hands.
As St. Augustine put it, “He who falls not humbly before the rock shall be crushed by it” (In Psalmum 140). The gesture of kissing the ring is not about subservience to a foreign leader; it is about receiving a blessing through humility, and recognizing that Christ works even through clay.
As Chesterton quipped, “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors.” The ring kiss is one of those inherited votes—not for a pope’s personality or policies, but for the office he didn’t give himself.
And as C.S. Lewis wisely observed, “A proud man is always looking down on things and people… and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.” Sometimes, reverence reveals more strength than resistance.
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2025/05/89045
Glad for this CWR article about JDV’s Catholicism. He’s also a new convert yet living the Faith promoting family life, and adherence to our nation’s immigration laws (unlike some USCCB members!) Unsure if he has learned the powerful aid for fertility awareness and reproductive help Catholic NFP provides, but I cut him slack on the IVF issue (though morally conflicted), as it appeared to be Pres. T’s uncatechized notion of IVF as a means to procure children if barren.
Yes, streamers, Patriotism is a virtue. Liked DR comments; lol about “Vatican walls”. ND,appreciate the doctrinal review. Brineyman, impressive and necessary deep dive into the Left’s Elitism, exploitation of the masses, outright deceptions, (aka Communism)- reminiscent of Orwell’s Animal Farm elites’ saying, ‘Some comrades are more equal than others.’ Recognizing our souls’ 21st century’s enemies is obvious: the world, the flesh, & the devil.
Thanks be to God for Christ’s Body on earth- the Holy Catholic Church, whose Magisterium is blessed with the wisdom of the Holy Ghost. Blessed it is also by our greatest Intercessor for these times, as Padre Pio claimed, Our Lady of the Holy Rosary.