Denver, Colo., Jul 25, 2019 / 02:35 pm (CNA).- NFP, or Natural Family Planning, is an oft misunderstood thing.
So much so that, to kick off NFP Awareness Week, one user joked in the “Catholic NFP TTA” Facebook group on Tuesday that she was celebrating the week with a drinking game.
“Take a shot every time a commenter opines about grave reasons. Another shot for when someone jokes that they’re bad at NFP. What would you take a shot for?” she asked. The joke struck a chord, and other group members chimed in with more than 100 additional comments.
“‘How far is too far when you’re abstaining?’ EVERYONE DRINKS” one commenter proposed. “Take a shot whenever someone claims Marquette is the perfect method for postpartum/everyone. Take another when someone argues with that person,” suggested another.
This post, and its comments, illustrate not that NFP users are proponents of binge drinking, but rather that they are accustomed to being misunderstood – even, sometimes, by their fellow users of NFP – and that they’ve developed a sense of humor about it.
NFP is the umbrella term for a host of natural methods used to plan and space children that rely on charting a woman’s menstrual cycle and related symptoms, including basal (resting) temperature, cervical mucus and hormone levels, among other things. The methods can be used to either achieve or avoid pregnancy, and are considered the only moral method of family planning by the Catholic Church; thus, many NFP users are Catholic.
So when The Outline, a secular, online publication, published last week an NFP article entitled “The Facebook groups where Catholic women shame each other about sex,” women who use NFP were disappointed, but not surprised, they told CNA.
“Women join these groups to find support as they navigate the complicated and sometimes conflicting rules around family planning as Catholics, only to be met with judgment or contempt when they admit they may be struggling,” wrote Mary Meisenzahl, the author of The Outline piece.
“NFP groups, as you might imagine, are also where women go to police each other’s bodies and sexual lives.”
The article included no interviews with NFP users, instructors or Facebook group administrators, and proffered a handful of posts from only one NFP Facebook group – a secret, private group entitled “NFP: Catholic Style” – as proof that the culture of Catholic NFP is one of shame and judgment.
It concludes with a recommendation that the Catholic Church change its teaching on sexuality and contraception, “as many members of these groups are getting their feelings of shame directly from the church.”
CNA spoke with multiple Catholic women and users of NFP who felt differently.
The only place where NFP is talked about freely
“These Facebook groups, as flawed as they may be, are the only places we may feel safe and open enough to simply talk about all things NFP in respect to our faith,” Virginia Pride, an administrator for “Catholic NFP TTA” Facebook group, told CNA.
“TTA” is an abbreviation in NFP for “Trying To Avoid”, and refers to couples abstaining from sex to avoid a pregnancy during the fertile windows of a woman’s cycle.
Pride told CNA that since the article was published, some women have been afraid to post openly in groups they had previously assumed were friendly to NFP and all that it entails.
“Many women in our groups now are afraid to share information with other members and admins; this in turn affects how much help they receive. Knowing how little support NFP users already receive in the real world, and you have a serious case of isolation on our hands,” Pride said.
“Perhaps Ms. Meisenzahl felt that she is doing Catholic women a favor by attempting to ‘liberate’ us from our own beliefs on sexuality and family planning, by way of intruding our communities for nefarious reasons, and using our stories and experiences without our consent for her biased articles,” Pride added.
“Whatever the case, her blind acceptance of anti-NFP and anti-Catholicism has only furthered the difficulties that Catholic women face, rather than help alleviate the issue,” she said.
A grain of salt and a sense of community
Laura Golden is a registered nurse and mother who lives in northern Minnesota. Golden has practiced the Creighton model of NFP for several years, and is training to become a Creighton NFP instructor. She told CNA that she credits the method for helping her achieve two pregnancies after experiencing difficulties.
While Golden is not an administrator of any NFP Facebook group, she said she is a member of two – one that is Creighton-specific, and the larger, more general Catholic NFP group referenced in Meisenzahl’s article. Golden currently instructs 13 couples in their use of the Creighton model – some Catholic, some not.
Golden said that she relies more on the Creighton-specific Facebook group; each NFP method comes with it’s own “jargon”, she said, and it can be easy to confuse the different terminology.
She also cautions those she instructs to take what is said in the Facebook groups with a grain of salt.
“I tell them, if this is causing you anxiety, then delete it. If you need to turn off the notifications because it’s just too much in your face, do that,” Golden told CNA. She said that for couples trying to achieve pregnancy, these groups can be overwhelming, since waiting each month to find out whether a pregnancy has been achieved can already lead to stress.
However, she added, these groups can also offer an important sense of community to NFP users who live in remote areas, or who do not personally know other NFP users.
“I live in a really small town and there’s probably three couples in our parish that are of childbearing years and are using a fertility method that I’m aware of at least,” Golden said. “So if you’re having an issue, you do feel really isolated because maybe you don’t know anyone else that has that issue or is even using a method that’s remotely familiar to you. And so when you are a part of this group, it does give you a lot of community.”
The article also missed the mark when describing the accuracy of NFP methods, Golden said. It cited a statistic from the Department of Health and Human Services, which states that NFP carries with it about a 25 percent chance of getting pregnant. However, it does not state the efficacy rates of each method of NFP, and it does not list the sympto-hormonal method of NFP (used in the Marquette Method, for example), on its list of method types.
In a study published by the National Institutes of Health, researchers tracked 204 women of childbearing years using the Marquette method of NFP over the course of a year. There were 12 pregnancies total in that year. The study found that the efficacy of the Marquette Method of NFP for avoiding pregnancy was 99.4% effective with “correct use”, and that it was 89.4% effective with “typical use” per 100 users.
To compare, birth control pills are about 93% effective with typical use, while condoms are about 87% effective with typical use, according to the CDC.
The “contraceptive mentality” and “just reasons” to avoid pregnancy
Mikayla Dalton is a Boston Cross Check method instructor and an admin for the Clearblue Monitor Methods (MM) NFP group on Facebook. She told CNA that her group has commenting guidelines that caution users against certain kinds of comments – those disparaging of others, those that attempt to start theological debates, those that are off topic, or those that encourage other users to go against the prescribed protocols of the Marquette Method, among other things.
The group tells members that any comments that go against the guidelines may be deleted, and that users may be muted or blocked if they are found to be hostile to the group. Dalton added that they also include a warning, telling women that while the group is closed, members are only lightly vetted, and that they should proceed with caution sharing personal sexual or intimate information in such a context.
“This warning strikes me as poignant now, after a person joined a group with the intent of surveilling its membership, to report on “the other,” having concealed – or not been upfront about – their identity and purpose in gathering information,” Dalton told CNA.
“Having a woman break the trust people had put in each other in the group, to get some kind of journalistic ‘scoop’ is disheartening. Accusing women of shaming other women… while shaming swathes of women… is ironic,” she added.
One kind of “shaming” comment in NFP groups that Meisenzahl mentioned in her article are those that accuse NFP users of using the methods with a “contraceptive mentality” – in other words, that they are using NFP to avoid having children for selfish or unserious reasons.
The term is incorrectly applied against users of NFP, Dalton said, and when she sees such comments in her group, she and many other members are quick to offer corrections.
“This particular phrase was used by Pope John Paul II in Evangelium vitae to refer specifically to a mentality arising from the use of contraception,” Dalton said, and he uses it in contrast to those who are following God’s plan for marriage and sexuality, under which the use of NFP falls.
Meisenzahl added in her article that: “Humanae vitae refers to ‘serious reasons’ and ‘just causes,’ for avoiding pregnancy, but the preferred translation among the more extreme members of the Facebook group is ‘grave reason.'”
“The Church doesn’t give a list of specific circumstances that are valid for avoiding pregnancy. For some Catholics, this means, as one user put it, ‘God understands your reasons. It’s up to Him to judge. What is in your heart?’, so each couple can make the choice that they feel is right for their specific situation. For others, though, a lack of concrete reasons means an opportunity to police and shame women who are actively trying to avoid children.”
Humanae vitae is an encyclical written by Pope Paul VI and published in 1968. The document was written to explain Church teaching regarding sexuality, contraception and marriage, and upheld NFP at a time when many within the Church were calling for the Church to change its teaching and accept contraception.
Dr. Janet Smith is a Catholic professor who holds the Father Michael J. McGivney Chair of Life Ethics at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and has written and spoken extensively on Humanae vitae. She has written about many different aspects about NFP, including the “contraceptive mentality” and the reasons Catholic couples may legitimately use NFP to avoid pregnancy.
“The best description for the kind of reasons needed is ‘just reasons’ and the best understanding is that the couple needs to take into account their current and foreseeable duties and obligations. Succinctly stated, the reasons must not be selfish,” Smith told CNA.
“Having another child is such a great good on so many levels, to seek to avoid pregnancy cannot be made for trivial reasons and should be made only after careful, prayerful discernment. The Church does identify categories of reasons – the couple should take into account the economic, physical, psychological and social conditions in which they live,” she added.
Those reasons could include, for example, “experiencing fatigue and anxiety that predictably impedes one’s ability to function at a reasonable level,” Smith noted.
“Decisions made on such a basis should be revisited regularly. People should be very hesitant to criticize the decisions couples make about their family size; the factors that need to be taken into account are not always accessible to outsiders,” she said.
The beauty of NFP
“You Me and NFP: Joy-filled living” is a website founded and run by four Catholic mothers, one of whom is a Marquette Method instructor. The intent for their website, and their social media groups, was to bring a more modern look and approach to the practice of NFP, some of the founders told CNA.
“We were researching NFP resources and they kind of have like a 1980s, 1990s kind of look to it,” Valerie Kelly, one of the founders, told CNA. “And we wanted to really brand it in a modern way while staying with traditional Church teaching. But we are really sharing it and evangelizing with it. We meet people where they are and are taking them where the Lord wants them to be.”
Their website is clean and pretty, with plenty of millennial pink sprinkled with gold accents. It includes written and video testimonials from women who share why they use NFP, a “FAQ” segment on NFP, and instruction in the Marquette Method through Sarah Tramonte, one of the co-founders.
The group has a Facebook page, but comments are closed. The four women, who are also mothers, said they worried about having enough time to regulate comments in the way they would like, so they decided not to allow them.
Their Instagram page does have comments though, and while they get the occasional naysayer or negative comment, it is by and large positive comments from women seeking advice or understanding, they told CNA.
However, they added, sometimes sharing the truth about the Church’s teaching may make people uncomfortable, even when it is done in a loving way.
“It’s never right to speak uncharitably, but it’s always right to charitably speak the truth,” Anneli Schraufnagel, one of the cofounders of You Me and NFP (YMNFP), told CNA.
“So a lot of these conversations that women are having, I think (they) are trying to, as sisters, come to the truth of their Catholic faith because the truth of their Catholic faith ultimately will bring them joy.”
That is something that can be easy to miss for an NFP outsider looking in – that practicing NFP, as a part of the Catholic faith, is something that brings many women and families peace and joy – even if they complain about some nitty gritty details along the way.
“Sometimes the Catholic Church’s teachings are hard, but sometimes hard things bring us happiness,” Schraufnagel said. “And…the ‘why’s’ behind the Catholic teaching, we need to talk about them.”
Besides some of the physical benefits of NFP, which include avoiding putting additional hormones or medical devices in one’s body, the “Why NFP” section of the YMNFP website includes women talking about the “joy” that NFP brings because of the sacrifices it requires, such as periodic abstinence. They also mention feeling at peace because they are able to plan their families according to what they believe is God’s plan for sexuality and marriage.
“I don’t want to sugarcoat NFP and say that it is all sunshine and daisies because it requires sacrifice and sacrifice is never easy! But the joy that grows out of selfless love, expressed through NFP, is one of the greatest blessings you can give to yourself and to your spouse,” reads one post from Ellen on YMNFP.
“I adore my husband, and by eliminating the pill I’m now so much more able to show him that. We are living, and loving each other, authentically,” reads another quote from Jen, an NFP user.
Couples who practice NFP also experience lower divorce rates, YMNFP notes. According to a study published by the National Institutes of Health, “among the women who ever used NFP only 9.6 percent were currently divorced compared with the 14.4 percent who were currently divorced among the women who never used NFP.” The study noted that the religiosity of the couples who practice NFP may be a contributing factor to the lower divorce rates.
Schraufnagel said the numerous benefits of NFP that she and her cofounders have experienced are the main reasons they started YMNFP.
“That’s a huge aspect of our team at You Me and NFP; we are really passionate because we see how beautiful the Catholic Church’s teachings are and how much joy is brought into our lives because of it, including, our family lives as well. And part of that is our sexuality,” she added.
“So I think it needs to be brought up and talked about in the culture that these truths are beautiful.”
[…]
How can there not be a mass exodus from that Mass? Oh, I know. We have a sentiment over substance Church.
Oh, fabulous.
So our parishes are now advocating for offbeat sexual practices.
I hope that by commenting on this abomination I will not be turned into a pillar of salt.
Cupich. Papa.
This practice is emesis. Pure emesis.
Let’s get down to some brass tacks regarding Chicago’s Cupich and Francis’ Catholic restorationists seeking reverence for Christ rather than bowing down, back and sideways to seriously disordered and dishonored laity and priests.
VCII’s Sacrosanctum Concilium says the liturgy “is thus the outstanding means by which the faithful can express in their lives, and manifest to others, the mystery of Christ and the real nature of the true Church. It is of the essence of the Church…. that in her the human is directed and subordinated to the divine, the visible likewise to the invisible, action to contemplation, and this present world to that city yet to come, which we seek.”
Canon law, 767 says: “Among the forms of preaching the homily is preeminent; it is a part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or to a deacon; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian living are to be expounded from the sacred text throughout the course of the liturgical year. Whenever a congregation is present a homily is to be given at all Sunday Masses and at Masses celebrated on holy days of obligation; it cannot be omitted without a serious reason.”
In 1980, John Paul II promulgated “Inaestimabile Donum”
Instruction Concerning Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery
Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments and Divine Worship
The document addressed common liturgical abuses at that time, one of which was lay people giving homilies.
From the document: “One who offers worship to God on the Church’s behalf in a way contrary to that which is laid down by the Church with God-given authority and which is customary in the Church is guilty of falsification.”(Aquinas)
“None of these things [liturgical abuses] can bring good results. The consequences are–and cannot fail to be–the impairing of the unity of Faith and worship in the Church, doctrinal uncertainty, scandal and bewilderment among the People of God, and the near inevitability of violent reactions.”
“The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church,…Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful….The Second Vatican Council’s admonition in this regard must be remembered: “No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.”
Finally,
“3. The purpose of the homily is to explain to the faithful the Word of God proclaimed in the readings, and to apply its message to the present. Accordingly the homily is to be given by the priest or the deacon.”
I agree with you. But also, look at where they’re at, Chicago. Another one of those “blue cities”. That said, what else can one expect?!
[Pietrzyk] “…reiterated that the fact that they are living publicly as a same-sex married couple — a state the Church teaches to be sinful — cannot simply be ignored.“
Oh, Jonah, not to worry. The Diocese of Chicago isn’t ignoring that fact.
Not hardly.
They’re celebrating it.
Can two gay “dads” create a natural family?
And we don’t think that the local Church (and here I am referring to the diocese) in Chicago hasn’t apostacized? Wake up…someone with authority.
Yes, are we seriously to believe that behind this event there is no backstory of a leadership vacuum, or hhinting, acquiescence or even approval?
Something like Mission Impossible! “As always, should you or any of you be caught, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape/disc will self-destruct in five/ten seconds. Good luck, guys,” or whatever.
But, hey, the idea is to get something to stick to the wall, and then to call those feces the “paradigm shift.”
Two fathers preaching on Father’s day! Sad! So very sad
Not really two “fathers”; one is the “husband” and the other is his “wife.” And when the wife clarifies this arrangement, the husband will back her up.
Fatherhood through leagalized kidnapping is not fatherhood. Neither is worshiping of one’s sins at Mass an act of fatherhood.
Just when you thought the lunacy had peaked (again).
“[T]here are probably not too many gay dads speaking on Father’s Day at many Catholic Churches . . .We wanted to raise our children in the Catholic Church . . . On the other hand, we didn’t want to expose our children to bigotry . . .”
Why, may I ask, do folks who do not believe in what the Church teaches want to join?
They want to infiltrate and compromise the moral and spiritual teachings of the church. Full frontal attacks won’t work; progressives know that. So they seek change in a more subtle but equally malevolent way.
Yes!
“The Archdiocese of Chicago has not responded to questions on the matter from other Catholic publications.”
Really – what more need be said?
This charade is nothing more or less than an obscenity. The irony that we pretend to advance the study of Sacred Scripture while casting its teaching and The Teacher to the gutter is heart wrenching. We engage in a “new evangelization” while endorsing sin and the damnation of souls — yes, it is “new” indeed. We are in the throws of a demonic self-deceit as we hurl toward ecclesial suicide.
Where is the Pope on this matter??? They remove Fr. Altman cause he states a true comment in his sermon and this is accepted??? Know wonder many are leaving the church and going to church’s that go by the bible. This needs to be brought to the attention of the Pope.
The bishop was right to remove Fr. Altman.
Ok, so explain the logic for me. Fr. Altman is removed because of his conservative positions on various issues but James Martin SCH, is permitted to violate church teaching on sexuality and receives support from his bishop when doing so. How exactly does that work?
I would have gotten up and walked out.
Me too!!
Reportedly [Lifesite news] a nationally known drag queen requested a Mass from new Phoenix Archbishop Dolan in which the morally disturbed man was permitted to speak, presented the Archbishop with an international drag queen award. I pray for former Archbishop Olmsted who I’m certain is deeply pained by Pope Francis’ purposeful slap down of a faithful priest who fearlessly represented the truth revealed by Christ.
Added to the Chicago Mass, and the increasing similar abominations permitted, and we must confess openly for sake of a bewildered, scandalized laity, the faithful who remain and are being subverted in their faith, abetting by Pope Francis, in context of all the high profile appointments of men who either practice homosexuality or favor it from Archbishop Paglia, Cardinal Hollerich, Fr James Martin et al the list goes on. What can the Daemonic do when we have Christ standing beside us? Persecute us? Bring it on I say. Let the whirlwind of Christ’s righteous wrath sweep them from the stage of life to the pit where they belong [do we pray for them? Yes. They are included in all our prayers for conversion]. Faithful Catholics are at this momentous point in Church history obliged to take a stand in favor of the faith revealed by Christ and condemnation of these abominable acts and this manifest Vatican policy.
Thank you.
It has to be recognized that many ‘priests’ are in reality only people who saw the priesthood as a way to an easy life. They are without a deep felt faith and go with what they believe to be popular views from their reading of the secular press and trends. They have little or no apostolic or ecumenical inclinations. If the world is pushing the agendas of homosexuals, they will believe that going with the flow is what must be done. Some even believe that because sinners are people too that their sin must be accepted if they are to be accepted as candidates for salvation. The problem is that most truly faithful people cannot see this. Parish councils should learn to be continuously putting their priests to the test and refusing their right to serve if necessary.
Well to top it off. One the parishes I go to or technically am a member in the Chicago Suburbs introduced a new principal, who by apparances and speaking demeanor is Gay. During Mass when he introduced himself he did not wear a suit, just some sort of tee shirt and is not married. The parish priest did not introduce him, so there ya go. I hope he is not Gay, but given what I just identified above, he fits it. BTW, just before the last blessing at Mass, the parish priest said he was leaving for a few weeks to see his mother in another country.
Mike, since you posted this publicly, I’ll call you out publicly. You have judged a man because, in your mind, he fits a stereotype that may or may not be true. This principle may very well have same sex attraction. He may also be valiantly fighting to live a chaste and holy life. You don’t know. You cannot know. Yet, sanctimoniously, you have committed the sin of detraction. Publicly. It is attitudes and actions like this that drive people away from Christ and His Church. Remove the plank from your own eye before looking for the speck in his. In justice you owe the man an apology and a retraction.
I’m not a proponent of Ghandi, but I completely understand the quote attributed to him: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Agree I definitely have a lot of planks in my eyes, no doubt. Always helps to have someone point out my sins. Maybe on the golf course you could analyze my game and prevent my too frequent quadruple bogeys.
Nevertheless this situation concerns me. How this will play I don’t kmow. If he would have worn a blazer or suit etc. and a better presentation, I would not be so concerned. The school already is on the verge of not having enough students. This I do not think helps, will see.
Just wondering do you apply the same comments to people who critize Catholic politicians that support abortion. If so I’ll add that to the plank in my eyes.
Whether a man is attracted to a woman or another man, he must aim for a chaste life. This is not an easy task and if we fail, we have confession. We have counsel to live virtuous lives, yet God gives special admonition against homo sexual practice.
The church is a place where sinners congregate to be cleansed and enriched through God’s eternal word. Where God has set boundaries, we must respect what he says. To promote what God considers an “abomination” within the Church is totally unacceptable.
If we truly love a person, then we must speak the truth in love.
No surprise that this happened at Old St. Patrick’s in Chicago. It has been a laboratory for “the reform” for decades. I lived in Chicago from 1986-91, a few blocks from the parish, and witnessed it first-hand.
In sum, the AD of Chicago is run by the “quite intentional apostates” (to employ the phrasing used by Fr. Imbelli in his 2021 essay “No Decapitated Body,” though of course he wasn’t naming names, he simply admitted it was widespread and implied that it extended far upward), led by the apostate sodomo-clericalist “His Eminence” Blase Cupich.
As my dear friend states, who escaped the nightmare of the “GB” spectrum of the LGBT lifestyle, “It is insanity for adults to teach [anyone] that it is OK for a man to inseminate someone else’s intestines.”
What is patently obvious is that our Catholic Church, in a vast number of places, especially at the Archdiocesan level (e.g., LA, CHI, NY, DC) is under the control of apostate hierarchs and their chanceries. For example, LA, which is advertised to be led by an “orthodox” (i.e., faithful) shepherd in Archbishop Gomez, promotes LGBT ideology at its annual REC conferences. A false shepherd, and an apostate LA diocesan establishment.
The Cardinal Newman Society has stated it can only recommend 10% of so-called “Catholic” universities to parents (some 20 or so out of approximately 200). I take that as a rough benchmark for the state of what Fr. Imbelli has admitted is the widespread and “intentional apostasy” in the Church at large.
Having been desensitized by the contempt of the First Commandment, shown by Pontiff Francis in his 2019 orchestration of idolatry, the apostate Church is now primed for the “sanctification” of sodomy proposed by the apostate Cardinal Hollerich, SJw, executor of the ideology of Pontiff Francis.
Old St. Patrick’s is the prototype of the new-post-Christian-Pagan cult, with many gods, including Her Occult Majesty Pachamama, mistress of all who possess “the mind of McCarrick.”
Prayer and fasting is commanded by Jesus, before confrontation of this evil.
“Then many of his disciples who were listening said, ‘This saying is hard; who can accept it?’ Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, ‘Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.’ Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, ‘For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.’ As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.”
Father Roccasalva, this is how Jesus approached teaching hard truths. Might I suggest doing as Jesus did? Sure, some people may leave the Church when you do so. Some may revile you for doing so. That’s what you signed up for in your vocation. The time has come for you to embrace it. Can you do what Jesus has called you to do?
Additionally I would add, could hierarchy preach at now much greater length for marriage prep to fiancé and fiancée? Anthony Esolen responds in The Vatican Confesses:
“You cannot have the sexual revolution on Monday, and then wag your finger on Tuesday and tell the man and woman that they have done ill, shacking up as they do, or using porn. And so they must study hard and listen to sermons and reorient their whole arrangement of sexual habits and expectations. And then on Wednesday you go to the [LGBT] parade and clap your hands. It is incoherent. And there is more. The fact is, there are Catholics among us who have not bent the knee to Baal. Why should they be made to suffer for the sins of others? And where are such Catholics to be found, dear hierarchs? You know where. But many of you have done your best to vilify those few havens of health and fidelity” (Anthony Esolen The Vatican Confesses in TCT).
I hope you realize that if a Chicago priest spoke out against this Cupich would send him to a mental health facility.
Chris in Maryland above – Thanks for the tip re Fr. Imbelli’s article.
Always lucid and even-toned. Clarity and charity. Unbeatable combination.
Gilberta –
You’re welcome, and thanks in return.
I respect Fr. Imbelli enormously for his 2021 essay, which readers can find here at link to Nova et Vetera:
https://stpaulcenter.com/02-nv-18-3-imbelli/
In his 2021 essay, he revisited the theme of apostasy, which he had addressed in a previous essay in 2000. His 2021 essay’s purpose was to assess the fruits of the 2nd Vatican Council. The money quote is repeated here by me:
Imbelli wrote that in 2000 he stated: “There is abroad in the Church a measure of innocent and sometimes quite intentional apostasy.”
But in 2021, he revised estimate, stating: “I would now omit the words ‘measure,’ ‘innocent’ and ‘sometimes.’”
For a priest of his intellect and faithfulness, and his reserved demeanor in speaking and writing, to speak so candidly about the devastating truth, was surely painful for him to do.
But he said it, and may God bless him for saying it.
Matt. 7:15. Would Jesus be ok with Satan taking over the pulpit? To Love God is to love him unconditionally – let’s pray for these sad individuals and the priest who befriended Satan.
Barf.
There is simply no willingness to assert catholic morality across the board for sexual purity. Far too many are wanting to go with the flow of secular moral stands. We are at a point in the world where being “mean” appears to Trump almost all other moral failings except the oft repeated accusation of racism. Church leaders appear afraid to speak the truth for fear of being seen and “mean” to gays, lesbians or unmarried couples living together. This was the case of the fall of Donald Trump. Trump, who could slice and dice political enemies in a way generally admired by fellow New Yorkers, met his downfall by the votes of “college educated” (but evidently not too smart) white suburban women who voted Biden. “We teach our kids to be NICE and not to BULLY” was their rallying cry. Yes. Evidently suppression of “meanie” Trump was the MOST important goal.Even now, it appears.Its ok if terrorists come through our borders, or drug cartels kill 100,000 of our young people each year, and food shortages, even for babies prevail, and that massive inflation guarantees their kids will never own a home in most urban areas, our lowered quality of life is all worth shutting up Trump. Well count me as someone who believes in “sticks and stones”. As someone who is mature enough to know politics is a miserable and dirty game. And as somebody who feels a politician’s DECISIONS to protect his people is more important than whether or not he is “nice” and occasionally produces a mean tweet. That Catholic priests are following secular leaders ( like kneeling with rioters) and now succumbing to the pressure to Ok “anything goes” in order to avoid the hurt feelings which may come of speaking the church’s moral truth is very very sad. Once day they will have to stand before Jesus to give an account of their willful failure, and take responsibility for leading the sheep astray. Its my opinion that this couple, no matter how nice they may be, had no business flaunting their relationship in any catholic church. I am in fact not interesting in anyone flaunting their sexuality of ANY type in my face. Doesnt anyone still believe that certain things are too personal and intimate to be bandied about in public, and that it is crude to do so?? ESPECIALLY a priest? I dont have much hope that the church’s moral teachings will be presented strongly at all under the current Pope. No leadership has been shown in this area, as is demonstrated by the current state of the German church, which is taking steps toward schism.The priest who permitted this presentation should be removed.
Honest question: Can someone please explain what “full communion” actually means anymore.
This parish is in full communion and in good standing, but the SSPX isn’t.
It doesn’t make sense.
Moreover, for those of us “in communion” it also begs the question: What am I “in communion” with? and “Do I want to be?”
PS: I’m not an SSPX attendee.
Ok, so explain the logic for me. Fr. Altman is removed because of his conservative positions on various issues but James Martin SCH, is permitted to violate church teaching on sexuality and receives support from his bishop when doing so. How exactly does that work?