Denver Newsroom, Nov 8, 2020 / 04:18 pm (CNA).- No phones, no Facebook, no Amazon, no Netflix.
When Fr. Josh Mayer entered St. John Vianney’s Seminary in Denver, his first year looked a little more monk-like than what some might expect.
“It had to do with getting weaned off of the damaging effects of media, and then being able to see them for what they are when you come out on the other side of that,” Mayer told CNA.
Besides fasting from their phones and the internet, the seminarians also went on a commerce fast, where they were not allowed to make purchases. The only day the men did not observe these fasts was Saturday, when they could call friends and family or buy things they needed.
The year was also peppered with spiritual direction and counseling, as well as spiritual retreats, culminating with a 30-day Ignatian retreat. There were classes, but no grades. Book assignments, but no reports.
In January, after Christmas break, the men were sent out two-by-two for 30 days, with about $80 and a backpack, heading to unbeknownst-to-them mission destinations, for what is known as a poverty immersion. Mayer can’t say where he went, so as not to ruin the surprise for other seminarians, “but I can tell you that it was awesome.”
These experiences were some of the key parts of Spirituality Year – the introductory year of the seminary program at St. John Vianney in Denver that is designed to give men a break from academics for a more intense focus on their spiritual and human formation.
“They call it a year of the heart,” Mayer said. “So a year to focus on your relationship with the Lord and to engage in deeper prayer than probably anybody who’s in spirituality year has ever engaged in before.”
When Mayer entered his spirituality year 10 years ago, the Denver seminary was one of the only ones in the United States with such a program. Today, more seminaries throughout the country are looking to St. Vianney’s program as a model for their own “propaedeutic,” or preparatory years.
The authority in the Church that governs the formation of seminarians is the Vatican’s Congregation for the Clergy, which provides its guidance for formation in the Ratio Fundamentalis Instituionis Sacerdotalis (or “Ratio”).
Following this “Ratio,” each country’s bishops’ conference then prepares their own “Ratio Nationalis.” In the U.S, this document is entitled “The Program of Priestly Formation.” The current edition of this document suggests a “propaedeutic period” for seminaries, but the U.S. bishops’ conference told CNA that the document is being updated, and such a period will become the norm in U.S. seminaries with the new edition.
According to the Vatican’s 2016 Ratio, the purpose of such a period “is to provide a solid basis for the spiritual life and to nurture a greater self-awareness for personal growth.”
“It must always be a real time of vocational discernment, undertaken within community life, and a ‘start’ to the following stages of initial formation,” the Ratio states.
Pope John Paul II wrote in the 1992 document “Pastores Dabo Vobis” (I Will Give You Shepherds) of the growing need for propaedeutic years for seminarians, due to the rapidly changing cultural, technological and ideological landscapes of the modern world.
“[T]here is spreading in every part of the world a sort of practical and existential atheism,” he wrote, in which “the Individual, ‘all bound up in himself, this man who makes himself the center of his every interest’…even as a wide availability of material goods and resources deceives him about his own self-sufficiency.”
Archbishop Samuel Aquila of Denver noted in a recent document, “New Men in Christ,” that it was such an observation that motivated St. John Vianney Seminary to provide a spirituality year for the past 20 years.
“Coming from an environment of that promotes self-centeredness, our young men are given the daunting task of hearing and responding to their vocational call. In many cases, they receive and respond to their call with decidedly marginal resources – having an underdeveloped knowledge of themselves and their relationship with Christ,” Aquila wrote.
“Like the apostles, prior to entering the intellectual and pastoral formation stages of seminary, our young men need a time for their hearts to be formed by Jesus. This human and spiritual formation allows them to live with Jesus through prayer, away from the
cacophony of the voices of the world,” he added.
Fr. John Kartje is the rector of Mundelein Seminary in the Archdiocese of Chicago, which just started its second year of a spirituality program.
Kartje said while the program took a lot of its inspiration from Denver, including the media fast, one of the ways in which it differs is that it is “housed deliberately not on the seminary site.”
“It really is in the nature of the year itself, that you’re sort of stepping away. You’re stepping outside of that busy-ness of the life you’ve been living,” he said.
Furthermore, he said, it disengages the men from some of the “dramas” of seminary and Church life, and allows them to dive deeply into community life with one another.
“It allows the men to disengage a little bit from, for lack of a better word, the drama that sometimes can go on in the Church today,” Kartje said. “‘Bishop X said this.’ Or, ‘Did you see what was in that blog post?’ Dialogue is important, but there’s a toxicity in the Church today – by no means is it pervasive, but it’s there. And for someone who’s just exploring a vocation, the evil one can really take advantage of those kinds of things and just completely take us off focus.”
The men live together in a house with one full-time priest, and other priests who come for spiritual direction or to give talks. The men are fully in charge of the house’s day-to-day duties like cooking and cleaning, Kartje said, which gives them an opportunity to grow.
“It’s the men living together in community, which is much more than getting along with your roommate or something like that. It really is having that common bond as a disciple of Christ, as a man who is discerning this vocation and learning what it means to be the body of Christ in the truest sense of the word,” he said.
“But also, it does mean to take responsibility for your share of the work, to collaborate. Men in a presbyterate are not best friends primarily. They may have a good friend, who’s a priest in the presbyterate. But how do we all get along? How do we respect each other? How do we handle fraternal correction? All those kinds of things.”
Echoing the sentiments of Pope John Paul II as well as the Ratio, Kartje said that men who enter seminary are often coming from environments that are antithetical not only to prayer and the Christian life, but to any kind of quiet in their lives, which is another thing the spirituality year aims to provide.
“Nevermind having a deep Catholic experience or identity,” Kartje said, often the men lack deep experiences with “even just introspection.”
Spirituality year allows them “to unplug from the frenetic pace of our culture and really learn what it means to spend time in quiet with the Lord,” he said.
Mayer added that in his experience, the time to step back from academics was an important part of the spiritual year, because otherwise, it could be easy to view the seminary as just another academic track, with homework to study and tests to pass.
“For instance, if you have a candidate who’s coming right out of high school or right out of college and going into seminary, you’ve spent most of your life in class. And…you tend to have an expectation of seminary as more classes. Then you get to seminary and most of your time is actually spent on academics,” Mayer said.
“So it’s very possible to just see your preparation for the priesthood as being primarily a mental exercise, something that you’re still competing with others for the best grade. The seminary just becomes in the stream of everything else you’ve done, which is primarily, for Americans, school.”
Mayer said men in spirituality year still take classes on things like the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and they read some spiritual classics, like “Story of a Soul” by St. Therese of Lisieux and “Confessions” by St. Augustine.
“You’re going to have some classes, but they’re actually just for you, they’re just for your sake, for the sake of your flock,” he said.
Another important goal of the spirituality year is to help men with their human formation by providing ample opportunities to meet with psychological counselors, and to examine their own weaknesses and shortcomings.
“There’s a surprising amount of human formation issues that a spiritual bandaid cannot fix,” said Fr. Brady Wagner, who serves as the director of the spirituality year for St. John Vianney in Denver.
“I think doing a Spirituality Year or a propadeutic year gives men opportunities to really seriously consider their history, their life, their own experiences in light of Christ and find some freedom,” he said. “And if a guy is not free, then he’s able to see that, okay, this is probably not going to be a good fit.”
Wagner added that most men throughout the course of the year take advantage of the psychological counselors that are available to them, and even if they don’t engage in formal therapy, almost all of them receive some kind of growth counseling.
“It really is…having to get foundation in a life of prayer and having done some good work in terms of healing. Maybe there’s some things that I’ve suffered in my life, in my past experiences. (Seminarians can) have them healed and integrated into their lives according to God’s providence,” he said.
It helps seminarians come to a deeper recognition that God has “been with me my whole life, and I know what it means to walk with him.”
This spiritual and psychological work allows men to enter into the rest of the seminary with as free of a heart as possible, Wagner said, or to discern that their call is elsewhere – either somewhere else in religious life, such as the monastery, or to marriage.
“There is a heavy emphasis on vocational discernment, but only after having sensed the truth of my baptismal dignity and identity,” he said, which “naturally opens up vocation becoming clear. And so I think a lot of guys really have a sense of clarity by the end of the 30-day spiritual exercises. They have some clarity about their vocational discernment because the exercises themselves really have an orientation towards making an election to a state of life.”
Because spirituality year has a heavy emphasis on discernment, there are often men who choose to leave seminary during that year, Wagner added.
“It’s not uncommon, where guys leave throughout the year. We just had a guy after his three-day retreat, he had a deep sense of confirmation that the priesthood is not his call, and a lot of joy and a lot of freedom around that. So he just left recently and, and that’s actually a good sign. A lot of guys go through that.”
Mayer said spirituality year serves as a good “check” on men’s motives and expectations for entering seminary.
“I’ve seen a lot of really beautiful things happen in spirituality year in both directions, from men deciding that this is not the call, but they’re grateful for the time they were able to have, or men really hunkering down and realizing that this is where the Lord’s leading them. Spirituality year is also really good for revealing deeper issues and wounds that we have,” he said.
Mayer said he learned lessons during his spirituality year that he continues to carry with him in his priesthood.
“I think having nine months of being really privileged to live like that certainly helps us analyze the way that we live our lives, and helps us make choices to preserve those things that are most important, like prayer and relationship – relationship with God and relationship with other people,” he said.
“Something like spirituality year, where you have an intensity of prayer and relationship and intensity of focus, you don’t have all the distractions that you normally have to blame your issues on,” he said.
This can sometimes bring up deeper issues that men may have been avoiding or that went unrecognized before entering seminary, Mayer added, like anxiety issues or other psychological problems.
“It’s good for them to show up and reveal themselves and how deep they go, in a safe context and safe environment, rather than 15 years later at a parish, when you have a nervous breakdown or something,” he said.
Overall, he said, he thinks things like a spirituality year or a propaedeutic experience lays a strong foundation for seminarians for further discernment.
“A lot of things are revealed when you spend a lot of time in prayer and sinking down into your heart.”
[…]
How can there not be a mass exodus from that Mass? Oh, I know. We have a sentiment over substance Church.
Oh, fabulous.
So our parishes are now advocating for offbeat sexual practices.
I hope that by commenting on this abomination I will not be turned into a pillar of salt.
Cupich. Papa.
This practice is emesis. Pure emesis.
Let’s get down to some brass tacks regarding Chicago’s Cupich and Francis’ Catholic restorationists seeking reverence for Christ rather than bowing down, back and sideways to seriously disordered and dishonored laity and priests.
VCII’s Sacrosanctum Concilium says the liturgy “is thus the outstanding means by which the faithful can express in their lives, and manifest to others, the mystery of Christ and the real nature of the true Church. It is of the essence of the Church…. that in her the human is directed and subordinated to the divine, the visible likewise to the invisible, action to contemplation, and this present world to that city yet to come, which we seek.”
Canon law, 767 says: “Among the forms of preaching the homily is preeminent; it is a part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or to a deacon; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian living are to be expounded from the sacred text throughout the course of the liturgical year. Whenever a congregation is present a homily is to be given at all Sunday Masses and at Masses celebrated on holy days of obligation; it cannot be omitted without a serious reason.”
In 1980, John Paul II promulgated “Inaestimabile Donum”
Instruction Concerning Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery
Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments and Divine Worship
The document addressed common liturgical abuses at that time, one of which was lay people giving homilies.
From the document: “One who offers worship to God on the Church’s behalf in a way contrary to that which is laid down by the Church with God-given authority and which is customary in the Church is guilty of falsification.”(Aquinas)
“None of these things [liturgical abuses] can bring good results. The consequences are–and cannot fail to be–the impairing of the unity of Faith and worship in the Church, doctrinal uncertainty, scandal and bewilderment among the People of God, and the near inevitability of violent reactions.”
“The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church,…Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful….The Second Vatican Council’s admonition in this regard must be remembered: “No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.”
Finally,
“3. The purpose of the homily is to explain to the faithful the Word of God proclaimed in the readings, and to apply its message to the present. Accordingly the homily is to be given by the priest or the deacon.”
I agree with you. But also, look at where they’re at, Chicago. Another one of those “blue cities”. That said, what else can one expect?!
[Pietrzyk] “…reiterated that the fact that they are living publicly as a same-sex married couple — a state the Church teaches to be sinful — cannot simply be ignored.“
Oh, Jonah, not to worry. The Diocese of Chicago isn’t ignoring that fact.
Not hardly.
They’re celebrating it.
Can two gay “dads” create a natural family?
And we don’t think that the local Church (and here I am referring to the diocese) in Chicago hasn’t apostacized? Wake up…someone with authority.
Yes, are we seriously to believe that behind this event there is no backstory of a leadership vacuum, or hhinting, acquiescence or even approval?
Something like Mission Impossible! “As always, should you or any of you be caught, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape/disc will self-destruct in five/ten seconds. Good luck, guys,” or whatever.
But, hey, the idea is to get something to stick to the wall, and then to call those feces the “paradigm shift.”
Two fathers preaching on Father’s day! Sad! So very sad
Not really two “fathers”; one is the “husband” and the other is his “wife.” And when the wife clarifies this arrangement, the husband will back her up.
Fatherhood through leagalized kidnapping is not fatherhood. Neither is worshiping of one’s sins at Mass an act of fatherhood.
Just when you thought the lunacy had peaked (again).
“[T]here are probably not too many gay dads speaking on Father’s Day at many Catholic Churches . . .We wanted to raise our children in the Catholic Church . . . On the other hand, we didn’t want to expose our children to bigotry . . .”
Why, may I ask, do folks who do not believe in what the Church teaches want to join?
They want to infiltrate and compromise the moral and spiritual teachings of the church. Full frontal attacks won’t work; progressives know that. So they seek change in a more subtle but equally malevolent way.
Yes!
“The Archdiocese of Chicago has not responded to questions on the matter from other Catholic publications.”
Really – what more need be said?
This charade is nothing more or less than an obscenity. The irony that we pretend to advance the study of Sacred Scripture while casting its teaching and The Teacher to the gutter is heart wrenching. We engage in a “new evangelization” while endorsing sin and the damnation of souls — yes, it is “new” indeed. We are in the throws of a demonic self-deceit as we hurl toward ecclesial suicide.
Where is the Pope on this matter??? They remove Fr. Altman cause he states a true comment in his sermon and this is accepted??? Know wonder many are leaving the church and going to church’s that go by the bible. This needs to be brought to the attention of the Pope.
The bishop was right to remove Fr. Altman.
Ok, so explain the logic for me. Fr. Altman is removed because of his conservative positions on various issues but James Martin SCH, is permitted to violate church teaching on sexuality and receives support from his bishop when doing so. How exactly does that work?
I would have gotten up and walked out.
Me too!!
Reportedly [Lifesite news] a nationally known drag queen requested a Mass from new Phoenix Archbishop Dolan in which the morally disturbed man was permitted to speak, presented the Archbishop with an international drag queen award. I pray for former Archbishop Olmsted who I’m certain is deeply pained by Pope Francis’ purposeful slap down of a faithful priest who fearlessly represented the truth revealed by Christ.
Added to the Chicago Mass, and the increasing similar abominations permitted, and we must confess openly for sake of a bewildered, scandalized laity, the faithful who remain and are being subverted in their faith, abetting by Pope Francis, in context of all the high profile appointments of men who either practice homosexuality or favor it from Archbishop Paglia, Cardinal Hollerich, Fr James Martin et al the list goes on. What can the Daemonic do when we have Christ standing beside us? Persecute us? Bring it on I say. Let the whirlwind of Christ’s righteous wrath sweep them from the stage of life to the pit where they belong [do we pray for them? Yes. They are included in all our prayers for conversion]. Faithful Catholics are at this momentous point in Church history obliged to take a stand in favor of the faith revealed by Christ and condemnation of these abominable acts and this manifest Vatican policy.
Thank you.
It has to be recognized that many ‘priests’ are in reality only people who saw the priesthood as a way to an easy life. They are without a deep felt faith and go with what they believe to be popular views from their reading of the secular press and trends. They have little or no apostolic or ecumenical inclinations. If the world is pushing the agendas of homosexuals, they will believe that going with the flow is what must be done. Some even believe that because sinners are people too that their sin must be accepted if they are to be accepted as candidates for salvation. The problem is that most truly faithful people cannot see this. Parish councils should learn to be continuously putting their priests to the test and refusing their right to serve if necessary.
Well to top it off. One the parishes I go to or technically am a member in the Chicago Suburbs introduced a new principal, who by apparances and speaking demeanor is Gay. During Mass when he introduced himself he did not wear a suit, just some sort of tee shirt and is not married. The parish priest did not introduce him, so there ya go. I hope he is not Gay, but given what I just identified above, he fits it. BTW, just before the last blessing at Mass, the parish priest said he was leaving for a few weeks to see his mother in another country.
Mike, since you posted this publicly, I’ll call you out publicly. You have judged a man because, in your mind, he fits a stereotype that may or may not be true. This principle may very well have same sex attraction. He may also be valiantly fighting to live a chaste and holy life. You don’t know. You cannot know. Yet, sanctimoniously, you have committed the sin of detraction. Publicly. It is attitudes and actions like this that drive people away from Christ and His Church. Remove the plank from your own eye before looking for the speck in his. In justice you owe the man an apology and a retraction.
I’m not a proponent of Ghandi, but I completely understand the quote attributed to him: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Agree I definitely have a lot of planks in my eyes, no doubt. Always helps to have someone point out my sins. Maybe on the golf course you could analyze my game and prevent my too frequent quadruple bogeys.
Nevertheless this situation concerns me. How this will play I don’t kmow. If he would have worn a blazer or suit etc. and a better presentation, I would not be so concerned. The school already is on the verge of not having enough students. This I do not think helps, will see.
Just wondering do you apply the same comments to people who critize Catholic politicians that support abortion. If so I’ll add that to the plank in my eyes.
Whether a man is attracted to a woman or another man, he must aim for a chaste life. This is not an easy task and if we fail, we have confession. We have counsel to live virtuous lives, yet God gives special admonition against homo sexual practice.
The church is a place where sinners congregate to be cleansed and enriched through God’s eternal word. Where God has set boundaries, we must respect what he says. To promote what God considers an “abomination” within the Church is totally unacceptable.
If we truly love a person, then we must speak the truth in love.
No surprise that this happened at Old St. Patrick’s in Chicago. It has been a laboratory for “the reform” for decades. I lived in Chicago from 1986-91, a few blocks from the parish, and witnessed it first-hand.
In sum, the AD of Chicago is run by the “quite intentional apostates” (to employ the phrasing used by Fr. Imbelli in his 2021 essay “No Decapitated Body,” though of course he wasn’t naming names, he simply admitted it was widespread and implied that it extended far upward), led by the apostate sodomo-clericalist “His Eminence” Blase Cupich.
As my dear friend states, who escaped the nightmare of the “GB” spectrum of the LGBT lifestyle, “It is insanity for adults to teach [anyone] that it is OK for a man to inseminate someone else’s intestines.”
What is patently obvious is that our Catholic Church, in a vast number of places, especially at the Archdiocesan level (e.g., LA, CHI, NY, DC) is under the control of apostate hierarchs and their chanceries. For example, LA, which is advertised to be led by an “orthodox” (i.e., faithful) shepherd in Archbishop Gomez, promotes LGBT ideology at its annual REC conferences. A false shepherd, and an apostate LA diocesan establishment.
The Cardinal Newman Society has stated it can only recommend 10% of so-called “Catholic” universities to parents (some 20 or so out of approximately 200). I take that as a rough benchmark for the state of what Fr. Imbelli has admitted is the widespread and “intentional apostasy” in the Church at large.
Having been desensitized by the contempt of the First Commandment, shown by Pontiff Francis in his 2019 orchestration of idolatry, the apostate Church is now primed for the “sanctification” of sodomy proposed by the apostate Cardinal Hollerich, SJw, executor of the ideology of Pontiff Francis.
Old St. Patrick’s is the prototype of the new-post-Christian-Pagan cult, with many gods, including Her Occult Majesty Pachamama, mistress of all who possess “the mind of McCarrick.”
Prayer and fasting is commanded by Jesus, before confrontation of this evil.
“Then many of his disciples who were listening said, ‘This saying is hard; who can accept it?’ Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, ‘Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.’ Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, ‘For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.’ As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.”
Father Roccasalva, this is how Jesus approached teaching hard truths. Might I suggest doing as Jesus did? Sure, some people may leave the Church when you do so. Some may revile you for doing so. That’s what you signed up for in your vocation. The time has come for you to embrace it. Can you do what Jesus has called you to do?
Additionally I would add, could hierarchy preach at now much greater length for marriage prep to fiancé and fiancée? Anthony Esolen responds in The Vatican Confesses:
“You cannot have the sexual revolution on Monday, and then wag your finger on Tuesday and tell the man and woman that they have done ill, shacking up as they do, or using porn. And so they must study hard and listen to sermons and reorient their whole arrangement of sexual habits and expectations. And then on Wednesday you go to the [LGBT] parade and clap your hands. It is incoherent. And there is more. The fact is, there are Catholics among us who have not bent the knee to Baal. Why should they be made to suffer for the sins of others? And where are such Catholics to be found, dear hierarchs? You know where. But many of you have done your best to vilify those few havens of health and fidelity” (Anthony Esolen The Vatican Confesses in TCT).
I hope you realize that if a Chicago priest spoke out against this Cupich would send him to a mental health facility.
Chris in Maryland above – Thanks for the tip re Fr. Imbelli’s article.
Always lucid and even-toned. Clarity and charity. Unbeatable combination.
Gilberta –
You’re welcome, and thanks in return.
I respect Fr. Imbelli enormously for his 2021 essay, which readers can find here at link to Nova et Vetera:
https://stpaulcenter.com/02-nv-18-3-imbelli/
In his 2021 essay, he revisited the theme of apostasy, which he had addressed in a previous essay in 2000. His 2021 essay’s purpose was to assess the fruits of the 2nd Vatican Council. The money quote is repeated here by me:
Imbelli wrote that in 2000 he stated: “There is abroad in the Church a measure of innocent and sometimes quite intentional apostasy.”
But in 2021, he revised estimate, stating: “I would now omit the words ‘measure,’ ‘innocent’ and ‘sometimes.’”
For a priest of his intellect and faithfulness, and his reserved demeanor in speaking and writing, to speak so candidly about the devastating truth, was surely painful for him to do.
But he said it, and may God bless him for saying it.
Matt. 7:15. Would Jesus be ok with Satan taking over the pulpit? To Love God is to love him unconditionally – let’s pray for these sad individuals and the priest who befriended Satan.
Barf.
There is simply no willingness to assert catholic morality across the board for sexual purity. Far too many are wanting to go with the flow of secular moral stands. We are at a point in the world where being “mean” appears to Trump almost all other moral failings except the oft repeated accusation of racism. Church leaders appear afraid to speak the truth for fear of being seen and “mean” to gays, lesbians or unmarried couples living together. This was the case of the fall of Donald Trump. Trump, who could slice and dice political enemies in a way generally admired by fellow New Yorkers, met his downfall by the votes of “college educated” (but evidently not too smart) white suburban women who voted Biden. “We teach our kids to be NICE and not to BULLY” was their rallying cry. Yes. Evidently suppression of “meanie” Trump was the MOST important goal.Even now, it appears.Its ok if terrorists come through our borders, or drug cartels kill 100,000 of our young people each year, and food shortages, even for babies prevail, and that massive inflation guarantees their kids will never own a home in most urban areas, our lowered quality of life is all worth shutting up Trump. Well count me as someone who believes in “sticks and stones”. As someone who is mature enough to know politics is a miserable and dirty game. And as somebody who feels a politician’s DECISIONS to protect his people is more important than whether or not he is “nice” and occasionally produces a mean tweet. That Catholic priests are following secular leaders ( like kneeling with rioters) and now succumbing to the pressure to Ok “anything goes” in order to avoid the hurt feelings which may come of speaking the church’s moral truth is very very sad. Once day they will have to stand before Jesus to give an account of their willful failure, and take responsibility for leading the sheep astray. Its my opinion that this couple, no matter how nice they may be, had no business flaunting their relationship in any catholic church. I am in fact not interesting in anyone flaunting their sexuality of ANY type in my face. Doesnt anyone still believe that certain things are too personal and intimate to be bandied about in public, and that it is crude to do so?? ESPECIALLY a priest? I dont have much hope that the church’s moral teachings will be presented strongly at all under the current Pope. No leadership has been shown in this area, as is demonstrated by the current state of the German church, which is taking steps toward schism.The priest who permitted this presentation should be removed.
Honest question: Can someone please explain what “full communion” actually means anymore.
This parish is in full communion and in good standing, but the SSPX isn’t.
It doesn’t make sense.
Moreover, for those of us “in communion” it also begs the question: What am I “in communion” with? and “Do I want to be?”
PS: I’m not an SSPX attendee.
Ok, so explain the logic for me. Fr. Altman is removed because of his conservative positions on various issues but James Martin SCH, is permitted to violate church teaching on sexuality and receives support from his bishop when doing so. How exactly does that work?