Minneapolis, Minn., Aug 28, 2019 / 04:25 am (CNA).- Bishop Andrew Cozzens became a bishop in the middle of a crisis.
“There was this kind of fire that was burning on the front page of the paper everyday,” Cozzens told CNA, “and then I got this call.”
The call was his appointment as an auxiliary bishop in the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.
Cozzens was appointed to that role just days after a whistleblower leveled charges of misconduct and cover-up against Archbishop John Nienstedt, who eventually resigned from his post amid scandal.
The archdiocese was in a state of chaos, and, Cozzens said, Catholics were in a great deal of pain.
“I was named a bishop at a very unique time, and it was so unique that it was clear to me God had planned it,” Cozzens told CNA.
He told CNA that he knew, from the time he was appointed, “that the Lord was calling me to be a part of healing. I didn’t have any idea what that meant when I heard that word in prayer.”
“Since the beginning,” he said, “I have felt like that’s why God made me a bishop and that’s what he wants me to do, and so I need to help do that.”
If God chose Bishop Cozzens to be a part of the Church’s healing ministry, meeting Gina Barthel was a big part of how that healing ministry would begin.
He remembers when she emailed him, in early 2014. It was just months after he’d become a bishop.
Barthel wrote to Cozzens that she had been a victim of clergy sexual abuse, and that she wanted to tell him her story. He accepted. They met in his office. Bishop Cozzens hadn’t met with many victims of abuse before. But when Gina told her story, he was disturbed. And he wanted to help her find the healing she sought.
“What was most disturbing about her story was the clear abuse of the office of spiritual direction. And since I’m a spiritual director, and have been a spiritual director, I understand how sacred that space is, and so the fact that it was clearly abused was for me the disturbing part,” Cozzens told CNA.
“Basically I knew that it would be very difficult for her to trust anyone, especially a priest or a bishop, so I was grateful that she was willing to share with me. And that was always the goal from the beginning, was to provide her an example of someone she could trust, and let her know that I was available to help her in any way that I could, to help her find healing, but obviously you can’t force those kinds of things.”
Gina Barthel told CNA that she’s found healing – and found Christ – through the Church, and with the help of Cozzens. But, she says, it wasn’t easy.
In 2005, nine years before she contacted Cozzens, Barthel was a novice in a religious community. She hoped to profess vows as a religious sister. In the course of spiritual direction, she told a priest, Fr. Jim Montanaro, OMV, that she had been sexually abused, and how that had impacted her spiritual and emotional life.
Armed with that knowledge, Barthel told CNA, Montanaro began to groom her, and eventually would sexually abuse her.
At first, the priest asked her to spend excessive time alone with him, and then discuss her body with him in sexual ways that made her uncomfortable. He told her, she remembers, that God could use that experience to heal her.
In the summer of 2005, Barthel decided to leave the religious community. She got an apartment in New York. Montanaro reached out to her, and said he wanted to remain her spiritual director.
“I was like, ‘Well that’s awesome because it’s impossible to find a spiritual director, so I don’t even have to look.’”
“So if you can imagine, a girl from Minnesota, who has no interest at all living in New York City, suddenly finding myself living in an apartment. I don’t know anyone except the sisters and what does that equal? I’m lonely. I’m isolated. It was a setup for disaster.”
Soon, she told CNA, she and Montanaro were talking every day.
“And then multiple times a day. And it turned into, at some point, a spiritual adoption. I don’t remember the timetable exactly, but he adopted me as his ‘Principessa’, like Italian for ‘princess’ and I called him ‘Papito.’ Like, ‘little father.’”
“And we would talk at night, and often the conversations at night would turn very sexual,” Barthel told CNA.
She said that over the phone, the priest would encourage her to imagine that the two of them were saints in heaven together. Then he would tell her that they should each strip naked, to be “naked without shame.”
“So it was just this weird, it feels awkward to tell you about it, because it’s creepy, right? So that was happening.”
In 2006, Barthel moved to her home state of Minnesota. She struggled with depression. She was hospitalized with major depressive episodes. And then a friend offered to send her on a pilgrimage, a group trip for which Montanaro would be the chaplain. The priest invited her to visit his home in Boston before the trip began.
“He invited me to come early and I stayed at their house in Boston, and I remember him putting a sign on the door saying: ‘Do not interrupt. Spiritual direction in session.’
“And he turned on music and he’s like, ‘I just want to hold my principessa.’ So there was a lot of holding and touching, but it was not sexual, yet.”
The priest was at least 20 years older than her. But Barthel, struggling with loneliness and depression, said she liked that he was holding her. Still, she said she knew that what was happening wasn’t right.
“I feel like in that circumstance, I was a vulnerable adult, she told CNA. “Because it was like he abused the child inside of me. He wasn’t abusing an equal, adult-adult relationship. Everything was very childlike.”
The next year, Montanaro took Barthel to stay with him at a retreat center in North Dakota and there, she alleges, began a sexual relationship with her.
Barthel told CNA how confused she was. She believed in the Church’s teaching about sexuality, but, she says, she also believed what the priest told her.
“The entire time, he was telling me what was happening was ‘miraculous graces,’” she told CNA. “Like, ‘Jesus is healing you.’ All of the things he was saying we should do were all part of God’s healing plan for me.”
“And the biggest thing I wanted in my entire adult life was to be healed of the sexual abuse that I experienced as a child. And he used that to catapult his agenda to hurt me,” she said.
“Everything was under the guise of healing, Barthel told CNA.
“And even, he was saying, ‘God’s using you to heal me,’” she said.
“So then I felt special like, ‘Well that’s kind of cool, like, it’s mutual. God’s not just using him to heal me, but He’s also using me to heal Papito.’ Like, that’s really special,” she said.
Looking back, Barthel says she can see that Montanaro was using her insecurities to manipulate her. But at the time, she says, she felt confused, and she trusted the priest.
“And I remember asking, ‘Well, do I need to go to confession? Maybe I should go to confession.’ And he always said no. ‘No, we don’t need to go to confession. This is part of God’s will. This isn’t just okay, and it’s not just good, and not just great, it’s holy.’”
The relationship continued until, after a few months, Barthel told Montanaro that it had to end.
She told CNA she realized things were wrong when the priest admitted he hadn’t told his own spiritual director about the sexual relationship.
“He said, ‘Some things are meant to be kept a secret between you and God.’ The minute he said that, my whole world started falling apart,” Barthel said.
She told a priest she trusted about the relationship. That priest called Montanaro and confronted him. Barthel said that Montanaro admitted the whole thing, but seemed to see nothing wrong with the relationship. The priest next called Montanaro’s superiors, and Montanaro was removed from ministry.
A spokesman for the St. Ignatius Province of the Oblates of the Virgin Mary told CNA that the province “first became aware of her allegations relating to Fr. Montanaro in November of 2007, when a priest of the Archdiocese of St. Paul-Minneapolis notified the rector of the retreat house where Fr. Montanaro resided at the time.
“The then-Provincial of the St. Ignatius Province met with Fr. Montanaro on the day he heard of the allegations. Following that meeting, Fr. Montanaro was immediately removed from public ministry and was to cease all contact with that individual.”
“In January of 2008, the Provincial revoked Fr. Montanaro’s priestly faculties, and Montanaro subsequently sought, and obtained, dismissal from the Oblates, followed by laicization from sacred orders from Rome, which was granted in 2010. Montanaro has had no role or ministry with the St. Ignatius Province since then,” the spokesman added.
The spokesman said that at the time Montanaro was removed, the Oblates “began to provide support” for Barthel.
The Oblates, Barthel told CNA, “sent me a couple of checks to help pay my rent because the trauma hit me so hard that I couldn’t work initially. They also sent me a letter offering $15,000 and a year of therapy if I signed one of those letters stating I wouldn’t do anything further.”
“I don’t know what I was more upset about: the fact that they were trying to pay me off to keep me quiet or the fact that they thought I would only need a year of therapy to recover. It’s 12 years later and I’m still in therapy!”
Barthel said it took years of healing before she was prepared to report what had happened to police. When she did, it was too late.
“When I finally built up the courage to go to the police, I missed the statute of limitations by less than a month. That was devastating because it took so much from me to even go to the police. I finally went, I told my whole story, and then I get a call back and it’s the statute of limitation by less than 30 days”
But she was even more devastated, she says, because Montanaro’s community, the Oblates of the Blessed Virgin Mary, have declined to name Montanaro as a sexual abuser.
“One of my big grievances has been why aren’t perpetrators of adults also being listed publicly?”
Barthel told CNA that she has been concerned that Montanaro might groom other women.
The laicized priest now works as a photographer in Massachusetts. He has not responded to multiple attempts by CNA to contact him.
Among the photographs posted on Facebook by the studio where Montanaro works is a series in which several women have posed nude for the camera. The photo captions read “You are ravishing,” and “Next time you think of something beautiful, don’t forget to count yourself in.”
On the website of the studio, Montanaro writes “My biggest satisfaction is capturing the unique beauty of each person who entrusts that privilege to my partners and to me. We love to help people discover (or rediscover) their God-given beauty in a photo session, and fall in love with themselves all over again.”
In March, Barthel wrote to the Oblates.
“I have concern that he could use his credentials of previous pastoral work and education to get a job in any helper position where he would have access to vulnerable adults. While he is no longer able to hurt people using his position of power as a Catholic priest, that doesn’t mean he isn’t still a threat if he has access to vulnerable adults,” she wrote.
“This is a hurdle in my healing journey. I keep thinking, hoping, praying and wishing that someday when I Google his name, it’ll show up that he is a self-admitted abuser of adult women. Yet, to date, I find nothing. It floods me with grief and also adds to my anger that waxes and wanes as I continue to heal. I feel that as long as the Church stays silent on these matters, there is danger the abuse may continue. Who are we trying to protect and why?”
She requested that Montanaro’s self-admission of sexual misconduct be publicly acknowledged by the order.
She told CNA she has yet to hear back from the Oblates about her request.
The Oblates declined to respond to questions from CNA about Barthel’s request.
While Barthel is discouraged, she told CNA that she has not lost her faith.
“I love Jesus, I love the Church. And it’s not easy and my relationship with Jesus and the Church are different now, but in some ways it’s more beautiful than it was before because I’m more dependent upon Him. And I don’t know how to explain it.”
“My deepest healing has all come through adoration,” she said.
Barthel emphasized the role that Cozzens has played in her life. They’ve met together regularly, and prayed together, for years.
“I needed a safe place to allow the rage and pain to unfold,” Barthel told CNA.
“Yes, I did a lot of that in therapy, but the injustice against my soul demanded someone in the Church hierarchy to listen to me, hear my voice, acknowledge my pain and empathize with me. Bishop Cozzens has been that person for me.”
The bishop, she said, “has been the conduit God has chosen to use to bring me back into a free and even deeper relationship with Jesus Christ and His Church.”
“Eucharistic adoration is where I have received the majority of my healing,” she told CNA.
“Bishop Cozzens helped get me to a place to be able to go there and ask Jesus the hard questions and to sit and wait and listen for the answers. That’s the awesome thing about Jesus, if we ask, if we wait, He will speak to us.”
Barthel explained that Cozzens’ role in her life has been invaluable.
“When I first started meeting with him, I was terrified of praying; especially using my imagination which had always been my greatest source of delight in prayer and way of connecting to Jesus through the stories in Scripture. He never pushed, but would give me little tidbits of spiritual encouragement/advice that I could bring with me to Eucharistic adoration. This is what I needed. Someone who could walk with me and understood the danger and risk I was taking to pursue a life of prayer again.”
Cozzens told CNA that he’s learned, through his pastoral relationship with Barthel, what pastoral ministry to victims of abuse requires.
“One of the things that victims of abuse struggle with is going to Church. It’s really hard for them to go to Church. But if you’re a Catholic, you might think that you’re committing a mortal sin, but you just can’t do it because it’s so emotionally difficult for them. So to be gentle and to let them know that God understands the pain they’re going through, and the Church understands that too,” Cozzens said.
“Just to help people walk through that and let them know it’s ok that it takes time, and that God understands what they’re going through. To do that you have to be willing to go through ups and downs with people, because they go through their good moments and their bad moments. But gradually – and it takes time – but gradually the good moments outweigh the bad moments,” he added.
Barthel said she appreciated that understanding.
“Particularly in the beginning, coming back to the sacramental life of the church and prayer was excruciatingly painful, adding the regular breaking news reports of clergy abuse and cover up, there were so many times I wanted to throw the towel in and leave the Catholic Church altogether. While he never encouraged me to leave, he also never tried to convince me to stay. This gave me so much freedom and reminded me that the choice was mine. I needed that freedom and I believe it had a big part in helping me choose to remain Catholic,” she told CNA.
“I just wanted to be heard. I am hurting and I need someone to listen to me, and it needed to be somebody in the Church that I felt like cared.” “And I needed therapy,” she added. “Obviously, like I still go to therapy. “
For his part, Cozzens told CNA that many bishops, in the midst of the Church’s current sexual abuse crisis, have built pastoral relationships with the victims of abuse. But he also acknowledged that some bishops and priests, apprehensive about litigation or negative publicity, have been nervous about their engagement with victims of clerical sexual abuse.
“For me, you just have to put the person ahead of the situation…working with someone who has been hurt…they could turn on me, or be angry with me, or say bad things about me, but that’s the risk we all take if we’re going to be part of Christ’s healing. So I think we all need to be willing to take that risk.”
The bishop said Church officials should be confident about openness to relationships with the victims of abuse, despite the fact that bishops have faced, and continue to face lawsuits, for the Church’s handling of abuse allegations.
“We can’t see these things simply as liability issues. Because you have to see the people who God puts in front of us.”
“Anyone who has been wounded by a priest needs to learn to separate, in their minds, the distinction between what priest did and who God is, and what God does, and how God works. And that’s a very difficult things, that’s why I think priest abuse is the worst kind of abuse, because it can separate a person from the source of healing, who is God,” Cozzens said.
“So we have to try and help them make that distinction. And that usually requires patience and trust.”
Cozzens knows there are many Catholics in pain over the sexual abuse scandals, and that healing does not come easy. That it comes one person at a time. And that bishops have to be willing to walk alongside those hoping to be healed.
Gina Barthel knows her healing journey is not complete. But, she says, she is grateful that Bishop Cozzens is walking alongside her.
[…]
Though I attend primarily the Novo Ordo Mass (and the TLM only occasionally, i.e., when the opportunity arises), I would dare to say that what we as a Church need is a prompt reversal of all restrictions to the TLM. This is part and parcel of any serious and true work for the UNITY of the Church based on the motto of Unity in Diversity.
Thank you. That’s true. The Church does have unity in diversity. How many rites and liturgies do we have? Quite a few.
“Just as before,” he added, “the granting of this dispensation is based upon an ongoing effort to promote the full appreciation and acceptance of the liturgical books renewed by decree of the Second Vatican Council and promulgated by popes St. Paul VI and St. John Paul II.”
According to Pope Benedict XVI, The Magisterium of The Catholic Church did not prohibit the TLM, so on whose authority did Jorge Bergoglio prohibit the TLM ? Certainly not on The True Magisterium of The Catholic Church which never prohibited The TLM, nor has it ever denied Christ’s teaching on sexual morality, as Jorge Bergoglio did, which serves out of respect for the Sanctity and Dignity of the life of every beloved son and daughter. Let the counterfeit magisterium justify why the TLM , The Beautiful and Reverent Mass of All Ages, which differs from the less reverent but still legitimate Novo Ordo Mass , in both form and substance should be prohibited, and why they are at it, let them explain on whose authority Catholic Churches were stripped of The Altar Rails? Certainly not Christ’s.
Until those whose competence it is, The Faithful, declare the counterfeit magisterium that is attempting to subsist within The Catholic Church, anathema, ipso facto , for in their denial of The Unity of The Holy Ghost, they deny The Divinity of The Most Holy And Undivided Blessed Trinity, the crisis in The Catholic Church will continue, for The Charitable Anathema was instituted by Christ, Himself, for The Salvation of Souls, including the Souls of those who deny The Divinity of The Word Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love Incarnate.
“You cannot be My Disciples if you do not Abide In My Word.” – The Charitable Anathema Of Jesus The Christ.
At the heart of Liberty Is Christ, “4For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come…”, to not believe that Christ’s Sacrifice On The Cross will lead us to Salvation, but we must desire forgiveness for our sins, and accept Salvational Love, God’s Gift Of Grace And Mercy; believe in The Power And The Glory Of Salvation Love, and rejoice in the fact that No Greater Love Is There Than This, To Desire Salvation For One’s Beloved.
“Blessed are they who are Called to The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb.”
“For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”
“Hail The Cross, Our Only Hope.”
“The Magisterium of The Catholic Church did not prohibit the TLM,” but what the church most definitely did was to replace the 1962 Ordo Missae and Ritus Servandus in 1965. The decree is called ‘Nuper edita instructione’ and was implemented with a new copy of these pages of the Missal published, printed, advertised and sold, to replace the corresponding pages of the 1962 Missal.
Abp Lefebvre welcomed these revisions
“The priest coming nearer to the faithful; communicating with them; praying and singing with them and therefore standing at the pulpit; saying the Collect, the Epistle, and the Gospel in their language; the priest singing in the traditional melodies the Kyrie, the Gloria, the creed with the faithful; these are so many good reforms that give back to that part of the Mass its true finality.
Abp. M Lefebvre; Itinéraires vol 95 July-August 1965 “
So what? Who is Abp. M Lefebvre that we should countenance his words? Did He die on the cross to save us? Did He rise from the dead to prove He was Who He said He was? So what if Abp. M Lefebvre did this, that or any other thing. I brushed my teeth last night, drank coffee this morning, and cleaned the garage today. So what?
6 or 7 different Rites, and 24 separate Churches, including the predominant Latin Church.
Agreed.It is appalling that the Latin Mass is at all discouraged, let alone forbidden.
Thank you St. Margaret of Scotland for your intercession. 🙏 🏴
“[T]he granting of this dispensation is based upon an ongoing effort to promote the full appreciation and acceptance of the liturgical books renewed by decree of the Second Vatican Council and promulgated by popes St. Paul VI and St. John Paul II.” This is exactly why the SSPX remains the only viable solution. The whole point of Traditionis Custodes is to force Catholics the accept something that is false, namely that the Mass of Pope Paul VI has been good for the faithful and that it constitutes a reform and renewal of the liturgy.
Although I firmly believe that the “Novus Ordo” should be respected and accepted by ALL Catholics and that the tendency to label it “inane” or “non-reverent”, etc. should end now (or at least be kept to oneself), I also believe that the TLM should be allowed to continue for those who find it more efficacious in their walk with Christ and the practice of the Catholic faith.
NOTHING is accomplished by promoting the TLM as “THE Mass,” and disparaging the “Novus Ordo” as…well, I won’t repeat it. All this condemnation of the “New Mass” does, IMHO, is demonstrate that the TLM does NOT help Catholics to show love and respect for others who are greatly edified by the “New Mass.”
As a convert to Catholicism from DYNAMIC Evangelical Protestantism, I am one of those people who loves the “New Mass”, including the acceptance of not kneeling (as I am not able to kneel–doctor’s orders), the contemporary music along with traditional hymns (all in the vernacular most of the time), the prayers in my own dear heart language, and it’s acceptance of the much-maligned “CITH” (Communion in the Hand).
Many years before I converted, I occasionally attended Latin Masses–and found them totally lacking in anything that would appeal to most Protestants, especially Evangelical Protestants. I certainly never went down the “Jack T. Chick” road and considered Catholicism a “mystery cult opposed to Christianity”, especially as the Pro-Life Movement gathered strength in the Catholic Churches long before any of the Protestants figured out that abortion is a real sin (and some Protestant denominations STILL haven’t figured this out, e.g., the United Methodists, who recently experienced a split with this issue as one of the causes).
I knew that Catholics were Christians–but many Protestants couldn’t get past the “Mass in a foreign, in fact, “Dead” language.” Now they can–and many converts have come into Holy Mother Church and quite a few of them have become “evangelists” of Catholicism to Protestants, resulting in even MORE converts to Holy Mother Church! There’s just something GOOD about “hearing the truth of the Gospel” in your OWN DEAR UNDERSTANDABLE HEART LANGUGE!
Yes, Protestants did convert under the TLM, but…I don’t think ?? that this was as common as it is today (other than in mixed marriage when the non-Catholic spouse converted, often just for the sake of the marriage, not because they actually accepted “Catholicism). I am grateful that I was able to hear the truth about Catholicism and Protestantism from former Protestant ministers (e.g., Scott Hahn) who converted.
Again, I do believe that the TLM should be available to those who love “all things classical” and find it more efficacious to their faith than the “New Mass.” There’s plenty of room for both! But there’s no room, IMO, for disparaging the Mass that we don’t like.
Mrs. Whitlock says: Protestants did convert under the TLM, but…I don’t think ?? that this was as common as it is today (other than in….,” etc., etc.
This article cites graphs, numbers and sources refuting your “think??” thoughts. “https://padreperegrino.org/2025/03/newevang/
Praise be to God for Scott Hahn being able to teach you the Faith which Protestantism rejected.
Yes, it should be simply made clear we are NOT Protestants, we are Roman Catholics. If the Prots don’t like our mass types why should we care?
Our “brand” is watered down enough in the past 60 years and severely damaged from the scandals revealed. At this point, leave well enough alone and spend the extra energy visiting the sick and homebound, or volunteering in our parishes to help offset the lack of community priests.
Amen.
Protestants may not have been able to convert “under” the TLM because Protestant theology lacks a certain vision or belief in God’s good mercy. Protestant theology rejects traditional Catholic visions of the power of Catholic worship. Some Catholic worshipers do aspire and do attain certain promises and certain degrees of God-man union. Other worshipers find this fact to be UNBELIEVABLE.
The very idea repulsed some people. A church more to their own inkling beckoned. Criticism of Catholic traditional liturgy and its members often followed.
People WILL find reasons to reject the power of God’s good kindness in another. Blame and rejection serve a useful, if temporary, balm to a troubled conscience.
“I am grateful that I was able to hear the truth about Catholicism and Protestantism from former Protestant ministers (e.g., Scott Hahn) who converted.” Note: Scott Hahn attends the Traditional Latin Mass, something many people here would like to deprive him of.
The Latin Mass should go away. 😛
Catherine,
I agree. Have you read Diane Montagna’s reporting about the survey upon which Traditionis Custodes based its claims? Diane presents evidence to the contrary. See today’s Extra, Extra News and Views, first article in the list.
That two year extension should be the limit. After two years, strictly novus ordo. It’s well past time for the Church to decommission the preconciliar Mass. TLM Protestants can defect to the SSPX, as one commenter above has said. You either obey or you don’t.
The Church also needs to celebrate the novus ordo much better than it does. I daresay the implementation of the novus ordo has been inept. Correct the abuses, improve the quality, celebrate the novus ordo properly, and then decomission the TLM once and for all.
“TLM Protestants can defect to the SSPX.”
Thank you Robert for clearly stating the ideological agenda of the bully, Franciscus.
That’s the description I was thinking of as well.
As I’ve mentioned several times, if the TLM saves souls that wouldn’t be saved who are we to judge?
“Have all these changes served the renewal and vivification of faith? The opposite is the case. Vocations to the priesthood, as well as conversions, have greatly decreased, and the attendance of Catholics at Mass has greatly fallen off. The New Ordo Missae and most especially the reform of the liturgy of feasts and of the whole liturgical year, is so colorless, inorganic, and artificial, that it will not be able to last long.” – Dietrich Von Hildebrand, The Devastated Vineyard (1973) p. 73. Hildebrand could not have predicted people like you, who are blind to all evidence of the drastic failure of the Novus Ordo. But already, the trends that have continued unabated to the present day were clearly visible only a few years after the imposition of the new Mass.
I can’t judge the merit your comment about the decrease of vocations being caused by the advent of the “Novus Ordo” Mass, but I would like to suggest that the more likely reasons are because of the tumultuous changes in our world society, especially in the U.S.A..–and yes, this could well include, but not be limited to, the “New Mass.”
These changes include rebellion in the U.S. against the Viet Nam War back in the 1960s and 70s (which seemed to validate rebellion against traditional male roles in society), the rise of the use of hallucinogenic recreational drugs among Americans from all income levels and communities, the increasing ease by which people, (especially men) are able to acquire pornographic materials and become addicted, the rise of the LGBTQ, etc. population and the acceptance of their agenda by many people from all walks of life who had relatives/friends who were part of it or who were secretly part of it themselves or who simply lacked the discernment to disagree with this life choice, the decline of the public schools to adequately prepare students to enter the working world in jobs that were likely to pay a living wage, the increasing animosity and vitriolic attitudes between politicians which has led to disillusionment with “authority figures”, the development of so many opportunities for women to enter all job fields and also gain more respect and authority, and the incredibly rapid rise of the INTERNET and social media, which has enabled many people to learn about alternatives to organized religion and be convinced of the supposed value of these.
Also, of course, family size has decreased (artificial birth control, increasing inflation and expenses often making it necessary for both husband and wife to work at a paying job out of the home just to pay basic expenses, women’s liberation from “slavery” to the home, etc.). This decreasing birth rate alone means that there will be fewer young men available to become priests.
As for the smaller number of vocations–keep in mind that a lot of the Protestant churches have closed their doors, and some denominations have been discontinued, including the Baptist denomination that I grew with as a child, and the number of Protestant pastors who have been educated in a seminary instead of simply declaring themself a “pastor” has greatly decreased as well. I don’t know about the Islamic, Buddhist, and Jewish faiths–it’s possible that their leadership has dropped, too.
If Jack T. Chick was still alive, he would be proclaiming that the End of the World is eminent! (I don’t think that’s correct! 🙂
I do agree with you that the lack of men interested in at least looking into vocations is alarming and very sad. I pray often that my only grandchild, a boy, will discern a call to the priesthood someday–but it would mean the end of his daddy’s family line. Sigh.
“It’s well past time for the Church to decommission the preconciliar Mass.”
Why, exactly?
About “decommission[ing] TLM once and for all,”
And if/when the Novus Ordo is done right as you recommend, it might ALSO look like the early Mass recorded in the Didache (early 2nd Century https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm) .…The “glory,” the “sacrifice,” “knowledge,” being “reconciled,” “evil”, “immortality,” “grace” and stuff like that!
Chapter 9, The Thanksgiving (Eucharist)
Now concerning the Thanksgiving (Eucharist), thus give thanks. First, concerning the cup: We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory forever. And concerning the broken bread: We thank You, our Father, for the life of knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory forever [….] But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6.
Chapter 10, Prayer after Communion
But after you are filled, thus give thanks: We thank You, holy Father, for Your holy name which You caused to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory forever [….] Remember, Lord, Your Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in Your love, and gather it from the four winds, sanctified for Your kingdom which You have prepared for it; for Yours is the power and the glory forever. Let grace come, and let this world pass away [….].
Chapter 14, Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day
But every Lord’s Day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.
SUMMARY: The one bad thing about decommissioning and amnesia is that it makes us forget a lot of stuff.
A Woodstock peace we with y’all!
Two years is a long time. Plenty of time for these people to prepare for the inevitable.
I’m really puzzled why it should be of any concern to folks who don’t attend the TLM in the first place?
Not to pick on anyone in particular but our society seems to encourage “Karens” and not just in homeowner associations. Surely we each have enough to be concerned about in our own lives and parishes?
Let’s hope and pray that some Midwestern pragmatism seeps its way back into Rome.
Saving souls.
Any kind of regional pragmatism would be a good thing.
🙂
since the Pope is from the midwest…
If I were to attend a Spanish-language Mass in any of the THOUSANDS of parishes throughout the USA or attend Mass in any of the hundreds of non-English speaking countries across the globe, I WOULD UNDERSTAND NOT ONE WORD OF WHAT’S BEING SAID! Now, that’s real unity for you.
I wonder how many of the TLM people actually understand what is being said! During pre Vatican II masses many devout would be saying the rosary!
Assuming our ancestors were literate, they’d have a trusty missalette with them at Mass with Latin on one side & their native language translation on the other. It wasn’t rocket science unless you couldn’t read. Which to be fair though was often the case depending on the era & location.
The Our Father & other prayers said routinely at the TLM were memorized. Even by my illiterate ancestors.
The rosary recital @ Mass is a bit of a trope I think.
JAMES CONNOR: I don’t know whether you were around during the pre-Vatican II days, but this Catholic was able to follow the Mass with the simultaneous translation of Latin into English using my St.Joseph Missal. I was able to sing Gregorian chant as a 4th grader and know full well what I was singing. Of course, this was before the Catholic faith was dumbed down by the homosexualists in the Church.
James,
That’s why there are English/Latin hand missals.
If you are correct about TLM attendees not knowing the words the irony here is even more shocking: TLM folks might not know what the priest is saying but they believe in the miracle of the Mass and True Presence.
A huge percentage of Catholics at large know exactly what the words mean, but they do not believe.
This is the ultimate tragedy and the crisis of our times.
Ave Maria!
I understand every word of the Latin at Mass, but during those parts of the Mass reserved to the priest, I often pray the rosary or some other devotion. That you would cite this as some defect of the TLM (or maybe a defect on my part?) would suggest that you do not understand what a Mass is and is not. Many of the pre-Vatican II popes specifically endorsed praying the rosary during Mass, including (ironically?) Leo XIII.
This is one reason why the Mass was updated. The rosary is a personal devotion; Mass is meant to be public worship. The reason why popes may have allowed the rosary was because many people didn’t understand the Latin language. The rosary does not belong during Mass.
Gary, who’s placed you in charge of deciding how individual Catholics ought to worship God? What you write about people praying the rosary during Mass is offensive. Assuming that one day you get to enjoy the Beatific Vision, you just might find yourself in the company of a multitude of fellow Catholics who prayed the rosary during Mass.
Praying the Rosary involves meditation or contemplation of the major events of Our Lord’s life. One involves His Sacrificial Giving of His Life, another His Offering Us His Consecrated Body. Seriously. What’s the problem with prayer centering on those? How about some pro-life themes? How about His Conception or His Blessing John the Baptist in the Womb? What’s the problem there? How about His Resurrection? Should a person not think of this during the Mass? The Ascension?, the Assumption, the FINDING JESUS IN THE TEMPLE? During the Mass, why ought we not pray or honor the Mysteries of Christ? Should we rather read text messages or sports scores from our phone, now that we’ve passed beyond the year 1964?
It might help you to understand at least the approach that many Protestant converts to Catholicism have about the Mass. I realize that many Mass attendees are cradle Catholics, but these days, I believe that there are many converts from Protestantism also attending.
For Protestants, especially Evangelical Protestants, UNDERSTANDING and participation in the “worship service” is of utmost importance. Just “being there” and receiving Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is not enough, at least in their minds.
From a very young age, Protestant children are encouraged to “pay attention” to those parts of the Protestant worship service that they can understand (e.g., various hymns and songs, and stories that the pastors tell, etc.). Many teens and adults take notes during the sermon. Of course, the Bible is extremely important to Protestants, and many Protestants expect the “sermon” or “message” to have a Scriptural origin and to illuminate the Scripture passage and help the listener to apply the teaching to their own life.
Sadly, most (not all) Protestants consider the Holy Communion an “ordinance” and don’t accept “sacraments”. This means that in most Evangelical Protestant churches, the “communion” is only offered once a month at only one worship service–or in some churches (not all), only a few times a year. They see it as a “ceremony of remembrance” rather than something efficacious for our souls. But of course, without the authority given to priests by Holy Mother Church, the communion elements are simply a “ceremonial prop.”
Many times, cradle Catholics don’t understand these “attentive” attitudes towards Mass from Protestants and their enthusiastic participation in everything from the postures to the prayer to opening the missalette or hymnals and singing the hymns with GUSTO! But try to understand that “praying your own personal prayers during corporate worship” is foreign to most Protestants for whom “understanding” and “learning more” are big priorities. JMO–I personally think that it would be good for Catholics, both traditional and contemporary, to have a more detailed knowledge and understanding of their own amazing and TRUE faith, and the recognition that, as members of the Church that Jesus Christ Himself started, and participants in the Holy Communion during which Jesus Christ becomes Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, it would be good if they could be attentive to the Mass whether it is TLM or the “New” Mass, and participate fully in the rubrics of the Mass, including singing the hymns, when/if it is “their turn” to participate. But I’m not “the judge” and this is JMO, not binding on anyone! I am more concerned with discerning my own sins and failures to honor the Lord and His Church. And I’m pretty certain that many Catholics, both traditional and “contemporary”, DO participate fully and practice ardent devotion during Holy Mass.
Mrs. Whitluck,
Did you write this comment to meiron? My comment discussed the Rosary relative to the Mass. I don’t understand how your comment addresses that.
I think I understand now. You seem to be saying that some Mass attendees come from a Protestant background. They may see a person at Mass holding the Rosary, focusing prayer on the Mother of Christ and His Life as only a fully human mother could do, as something strange and incongruous with the Protestant idea of communal or conformist-uniformist type worship. Therefore, perhaps other Mass-attendees (particularly those of previous Protestant worship inclination) would see a person at Mass with rosary beads in hand as inappropriate, distressing, or confusing. Less than ideal, IOW.
It may interest and educate you if you would be willing and able to learn what both JPII and Paul VI had to say about the Rosary:
https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_p-vi_exh_19740202_marialis-cultus.html
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/2002/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae.html
Then maybe get back to me. Or not. At least consider that others do not necessarily follow the same JMO inclinations as you. There is no need to look at another’s piety or devotion as somehow skewed in the direction of disorder. God is God to everyone, and Mary, Our Mother loves you and me more than we know. We owe her for delivering Christ to us.
Yet this is a Catholic Mass. So why would a Catholic be concerned about what Protestant attendees may think?
The Church wants us to pray the Mass. The rosary isn’t part of the Mass. Private prayers and devotions belong elsewhere. The priest saying Mass is not background noise for us to catch up on personal prayers. Corporate worship is a Catholic concept. We are to pray the Mass as a group together, united, not together doing our own prayers in the same room. There’s a difference.
I bet you would be able to understand a little of the Spanish Mass because some words are quite similar to the Latin but i hear you. A universal prayer language has many advantages.
Latin was it!
For the Latin Rite, yes knowall. It was and is.
DiogenesRedux, were you to attend the TLM anywhere in the world you would understand the majority of what is being said. Just not what is spoken in the local language. Being able to understand the mass in all countries with Latin as the shared language, That is real unity for you.
As regards Mr. Connor’s question, quite a few learn and know the Latin being prayed. Plus, the Saint Joseph missal has the Latin on the left and the English on the right. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?
Joseph: I agree. I was simply making a point to those who find Latin so disagreeable – mainly because they don’t understand the language. On the other hand, no one has a problem with Masses being said in Spanish – a language most Anglos cannot understand.
Mass for care of the climate in. TLM out. Pacamama must be pleased.
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/cop/praying-world-halts-climate-change-theres-now-catholic-mass-that-2025-07-03/
For those seeking Sacred Tradition and the peace of Christ, find a reverent Mass: https://reverentcatholicmass.com/map
Us traddies should strive mightily to avoid ‘sterile polemic’, but we must never let go of the fundamental truth: the Novus Ordo is a disastrous mistake, and the Church cannot recover till she recovers her authentic liturgy.
Thank you for showing that trads are SSPX at heart and hate the Vatican II Church.
There can be no reconciliation between trads and the Vatican II Catholics if the trads are going to be recalcitrant.
The novus ordo is the Roman Rite’s new, reformed, authentic liturgy. You need to accept that. If you can’t or won’t, then off to the SSPX with you, schismatic.
Pope Francis was right about the TLM fomenting hatred for the Church. The trads have made an idol out of the TLM.
In reality, there is no such thing as the novus ordo. Catholic Mass varies from parish to parish just as much as any Protestant worship service varies from all the others. It is odd to hear devotees of such extreme diversity demand absolute uniformity. It is quite an example of cognitive dissonance.
If one was truly schismatic the SSPX wouldn’t be much interested in having them join. The SSPX are not in schism.
“…Francis was right about the TLM fomenting hatred for the Church.”
Francis was right only in the eyes of those who choose to hate. Some hate the TLM, some hate adherents of the TLM, and some hate the Church. That is their choice.
Francis’s words were only infallible when he taught time-honored dogmatic truth. His words and dislike of the TLM reflected his personal choice and opinion. That opinion and choice is by no means or measure infallible.
If Francis supported or caused others to hate the Church, TLM adherents, or the TLM itself, Francis will surely give account. All shall be called to account. All who hate the Mass, the Church, or its members while professing its Creed shall not escape by pointing to Francis as an excuse.
Do you go by the title of “Pope Sebastian”? You come across as hopelessly supercillious.
Plenty of vitriol in these comments and it’s not coming from the TLM crowd.
Just sayin’.
It’s a shame Miss Cleo. A divided, bickering Church is a weakened Church.
Is that a snide joke? This is of course NOT “Miss Cleo” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Cleo. I’m old enough to remember her, and I get the impression you are, too. Don’t go there.
We’re you responding to my comments to Miss Cleo? I’m not sure what you meant. Sorry.
I respectfully and sadly disagree. I’ve seen some pretty disturbing comments on this thread, and many were from the proponents of the traditional Latin Mass, although others were from the proponents of the “New” Mass. Satan just loves warfare between Christians. Be careful out there, everyone! And remember that Holy Mother Church recognizes both forms of the Mass as “legitimate.”
All too true! I’m a convert, and compared with what I have seen in Baptist and Bible churches, I’m impressed with the depth and profundity of all valid Catholic Masses, and Orthodox Divine Liturgies to boot. When the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity deigns to make Himself present among us sinners, all I can do is adore. That is not to say that all preparations for His coming are the same, but I will say that all preparations are inadequate — OR ELSE THE LIKES OF ME WOULD NOT BE PRESENT.
Yes, Mrs Sharon that was the point I think. Division comes from all sides.
The Apostles argued and probably fought frequently, as did our Founding Fathers (USA)
No doubt, knowall.
Our fallen nature doesn’t change much.
Never underestimate the disposition on the part of hierarchs to lie.
Ask the trads how many of them want mutual enrichment from the NO to the TLM. Things like vernacular proclamation of the readings, a three-year lectionary cycle, and participation in the ordinary by the assembly. You’ll get vociferous opposition.
Trads don’t want mutual enrichment. Trads don’t want Vatican II. Trads want their pristine TLM. They don’t even care if the TLM is in union with the Catholic Church. They’ll go to the Lefebvrites if it comes down to a choice between that and the Novus Ordo.
That’s the mindset that Francis and now Leo has to correct. Leo has to be a true and authoritative spiritual father: he needs to take away the TLM pacifier and reaffirm that the Roman Church has one unique liturgical form: the Novus Ordo Mass.
We would not be having this conversation if Archbishop Lefebvre hadn’t schismatically ordained new priests and bishops without the pope’s authorization. Lefebvre chose the TLM over the Church. JPII and BXVI tried to keep Lefebvrite-leaning Catholics in the Church by granting them permission for the TLM. That didn’t work. The trads are SSPX, anti Vatican II to their core. The TLM would be nonexistent were it not for Lefebvre.
It’s high time we all admit it to be true like adults and just go our separate ways. Trads are welcome in the Catholic Church, but only on the condition that they celebrate the Novus Ordo with the rest of us.
You keep telling us that trads do this and trads want that. They’ll don this and they’ll do that if this and that. Seems you know a lot about trads. Too bad your words are only wishful projections. prejudicial, untruthful, and uncharitable supposition. God rest your soul.
Try this on for size: “NO’ers are welcome in the Catholic Church, but only on the condition that they celebrate the Tridentine Mass.” There. That seems to fit, right and just.
Except there was an ecumenical council that decreed the Tridentine Mass should be changed. Trads can’t argue against that and remain good Catholics. The novus ordoans are right: you have to accept Vatican 2 with its liturgical reform in order to be Catholic. You can’t be Catholic and reject an ecumenical council. The novus ordo Mass is definitely on more solid footing than the Tridentine Mass is.
Amy, you sound like a veritable autocrat. One would never think you were referring to others who also are members of the Body of Christ. Where’s your charity?
Did Pope Paul VI reject VCII and its liturgical reform when he granted the “Agatha Christie” indult to England in 1971?
By definition, an indult is an exception to the norm.
Trads have no good arguments at all.
The novus ordo is the Mass of the Roman Church. The TLM is obsolete, outdated, inferior, superseded, passe, and should be eliminated from use. Preserving and perpetuating it hurts the Church. Pastoral exceptions were made for people who had a hard time adjusting to the new Mass, but that time is long over. Now the TLM is a form and a sign of resistance, which is why it must be forbidden.
Well, Mr Donald, there you go. Division comes from every side.
My personal experience has been that parishes offering both forms of the Mass get along just fine. No one really cares what the folks at the TLM are up to and visa versa.