Denver, Colo., Jul 25, 2019 / 02:35 pm (CNA).- NFP, or Natural Family Planning, is an oft misunderstood thing.
So much so that, to kick off NFP Awareness Week, one user joked in the “Catholic NFP TTA” Facebook group on Tuesday that she was celebrating the week with a drinking game.
“Take a shot every time a commenter opines about grave reasons. Another shot for when someone jokes that they’re bad at NFP. What would you take a shot for?” she asked. The joke struck a chord, and other group members chimed in with more than 100 additional comments.
“‘How far is too far when you’re abstaining?’ EVERYONE DRINKS” one commenter proposed. “Take a shot whenever someone claims Marquette is the perfect method for postpartum/everyone. Take another when someone argues with that person,” suggested another.
This post, and its comments, illustrate not that NFP users are proponents of binge drinking, but rather that they are accustomed to being misunderstood – even, sometimes, by their fellow users of NFP – and that they’ve developed a sense of humor about it.
NFP is the umbrella term for a host of natural methods used to plan and space children that rely on charting a woman’s menstrual cycle and related symptoms, including basal (resting) temperature, cervical mucus and hormone levels, among other things. The methods can be used to either achieve or avoid pregnancy, and are considered the only moral method of family planning by the Catholic Church; thus, many NFP users are Catholic.
So when The Outline, a secular, online publication, published last week an NFP article entitled “The Facebook groups where Catholic women shame each other about sex,” women who use NFP were disappointed, but not surprised, they told CNA.
“Women join these groups to find support as they navigate the complicated and sometimes conflicting rules around family planning as Catholics, only to be met with judgment or contempt when they admit they may be struggling,” wrote Mary Meisenzahl, the author of The Outline piece.
“NFP groups, as you might imagine, are also where women go to police each other’s bodies and sexual lives.”
The article included no interviews with NFP users, instructors or Facebook group administrators, and proffered a handful of posts from only one NFP Facebook group – a secret, private group entitled “NFP: Catholic Style” – as proof that the culture of Catholic NFP is one of shame and judgment.
It concludes with a recommendation that the Catholic Church change its teaching on sexuality and contraception, “as many members of these groups are getting their feelings of shame directly from the church.”
CNA spoke with multiple Catholic women and users of NFP who felt differently.
The only place where NFP is talked about freely
“These Facebook groups, as flawed as they may be, are the only places we may feel safe and open enough to simply talk about all things NFP in respect to our faith,” Virginia Pride, an administrator for “Catholic NFP TTA” Facebook group, told CNA.
“TTA” is an abbreviation in NFP for “Trying To Avoid”, and refers to couples abstaining from sex to avoid a pregnancy during the fertile windows of a woman’s cycle.
Pride told CNA that since the article was published, some women have been afraid to post openly in groups they had previously assumed were friendly to NFP and all that it entails.
“Many women in our groups now are afraid to share information with other members and admins; this in turn affects how much help they receive. Knowing how little support NFP users already receive in the real world, and you have a serious case of isolation on our hands,” Pride said.
“Perhaps Ms. Meisenzahl felt that she is doing Catholic women a favor by attempting to ‘liberate’ us from our own beliefs on sexuality and family planning, by way of intruding our communities for nefarious reasons, and using our stories and experiences without our consent for her biased articles,” Pride added.
“Whatever the case, her blind acceptance of anti-NFP and anti-Catholicism has only furthered the difficulties that Catholic women face, rather than help alleviate the issue,” she said.
A grain of salt and a sense of community
Laura Golden is a registered nurse and mother who lives in northern Minnesota. Golden has practiced the Creighton model of NFP for several years, and is training to become a Creighton NFP instructor. She told CNA that she credits the method for helping her achieve two pregnancies after experiencing difficulties.
While Golden is not an administrator of any NFP Facebook group, she said she is a member of two – one that is Creighton-specific, and the larger, more general Catholic NFP group referenced in Meisenzahl’s article. Golden currently instructs 13 couples in their use of the Creighton model – some Catholic, some not.
Golden said that she relies more on the Creighton-specific Facebook group; each NFP method comes with it’s own “jargon”, she said, and it can be easy to confuse the different terminology.
She also cautions those she instructs to take what is said in the Facebook groups with a grain of salt.
“I tell them, if this is causing you anxiety, then delete it. If you need to turn off the notifications because it’s just too much in your face, do that,” Golden told CNA. She said that for couples trying to achieve pregnancy, these groups can be overwhelming, since waiting each month to find out whether a pregnancy has been achieved can already lead to stress.
However, she added, these groups can also offer an important sense of community to NFP users who live in remote areas, or who do not personally know other NFP users.
“I live in a really small town and there’s probably three couples in our parish that are of childbearing years and are using a fertility method that I’m aware of at least,” Golden said. “So if you’re having an issue, you do feel really isolated because maybe you don’t know anyone else that has that issue or is even using a method that’s remotely familiar to you. And so when you are a part of this group, it does give you a lot of community.”
The article also missed the mark when describing the accuracy of NFP methods, Golden said. It cited a statistic from the Department of Health and Human Services, which states that NFP carries with it about a 25 percent chance of getting pregnant. However, it does not state the efficacy rates of each method of NFP, and it does not list the sympto-hormonal method of NFP (used in the Marquette Method, for example), on its list of method types.
In a study published by the National Institutes of Health, researchers tracked 204 women of childbearing years using the Marquette method of NFP over the course of a year. There were 12 pregnancies total in that year. The study found that the efficacy of the Marquette Method of NFP for avoiding pregnancy was 99.4% effective with “correct use”, and that it was 89.4% effective with “typical use” per 100 users.
To compare, birth control pills are about 93% effective with typical use, while condoms are about 87% effective with typical use, according to the CDC.
The “contraceptive mentality” and “just reasons” to avoid pregnancy
Mikayla Dalton is a Boston Cross Check method instructor and an admin for the Clearblue Monitor Methods (MM) NFP group on Facebook. She told CNA that her group has commenting guidelines that caution users against certain kinds of comments – those disparaging of others, those that attempt to start theological debates, those that are off topic, or those that encourage other users to go against the prescribed protocols of the Marquette Method, among other things.
The group tells members that any comments that go against the guidelines may be deleted, and that users may be muted or blocked if they are found to be hostile to the group. Dalton added that they also include a warning, telling women that while the group is closed, members are only lightly vetted, and that they should proceed with caution sharing personal sexual or intimate information in such a context.
“This warning strikes me as poignant now, after a person joined a group with the intent of surveilling its membership, to report on “the other,” having concealed – or not been upfront about – their identity and purpose in gathering information,” Dalton told CNA.
“Having a woman break the trust people had put in each other in the group, to get some kind of journalistic ‘scoop’ is disheartening. Accusing women of shaming other women… while shaming swathes of women… is ironic,” she added.
One kind of “shaming” comment in NFP groups that Meisenzahl mentioned in her article are those that accuse NFP users of using the methods with a “contraceptive mentality” – in other words, that they are using NFP to avoid having children for selfish or unserious reasons.
The term is incorrectly applied against users of NFP, Dalton said, and when she sees such comments in her group, she and many other members are quick to offer corrections.
“This particular phrase was used by Pope John Paul II in Evangelium vitae to refer specifically to a mentality arising from the use of contraception,” Dalton said, and he uses it in contrast to those who are following God’s plan for marriage and sexuality, under which the use of NFP falls.
Meisenzahl added in her article that: “Humanae vitae refers to ‘serious reasons’ and ‘just causes,’ for avoiding pregnancy, but the preferred translation among the more extreme members of the Facebook group is ‘grave reason.'”
“The Church doesn’t give a list of specific circumstances that are valid for avoiding pregnancy. For some Catholics, this means, as one user put it, ‘God understands your reasons. It’s up to Him to judge. What is in your heart?’, so each couple can make the choice that they feel is right for their specific situation. For others, though, a lack of concrete reasons means an opportunity to police and shame women who are actively trying to avoid children.”
Humanae vitae is an encyclical written by Pope Paul VI and published in 1968. The document was written to explain Church teaching regarding sexuality, contraception and marriage, and upheld NFP at a time when many within the Church were calling for the Church to change its teaching and accept contraception.
Dr. Janet Smith is a Catholic professor who holds the Father Michael J. McGivney Chair of Life Ethics at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and has written and spoken extensively on Humanae vitae. She has written about many different aspects about NFP, including the “contraceptive mentality” and the reasons Catholic couples may legitimately use NFP to avoid pregnancy.
“The best description for the kind of reasons needed is ‘just reasons’ and the best understanding is that the couple needs to take into account their current and foreseeable duties and obligations. Succinctly stated, the reasons must not be selfish,” Smith told CNA.
“Having another child is such a great good on so many levels, to seek to avoid pregnancy cannot be made for trivial reasons and should be made only after careful, prayerful discernment. The Church does identify categories of reasons – the couple should take into account the economic, physical, psychological and social conditions in which they live,” she added.
Those reasons could include, for example, “experiencing fatigue and anxiety that predictably impedes one’s ability to function at a reasonable level,” Smith noted.
“Decisions made on such a basis should be revisited regularly. People should be very hesitant to criticize the decisions couples make about their family size; the factors that need to be taken into account are not always accessible to outsiders,” she said.
The beauty of NFP
“You Me and NFP: Joy-filled living” is a website founded and run by four Catholic mothers, one of whom is a Marquette Method instructor. The intent for their website, and their social media groups, was to bring a more modern look and approach to the practice of NFP, some of the founders told CNA.
“We were researching NFP resources and they kind of have like a 1980s, 1990s kind of look to it,” Valerie Kelly, one of the founders, told CNA. “And we wanted to really brand it in a modern way while staying with traditional Church teaching. But we are really sharing it and evangelizing with it. We meet people where they are and are taking them where the Lord wants them to be.”
Their website is clean and pretty, with plenty of millennial pink sprinkled with gold accents. It includes written and video testimonials from women who share why they use NFP, a “FAQ” segment on NFP, and instruction in the Marquette Method through Sarah Tramonte, one of the co-founders.
The group has a Facebook page, but comments are closed. The four women, who are also mothers, said they worried about having enough time to regulate comments in the way they would like, so they decided not to allow them.
Their Instagram page does have comments though, and while they get the occasional naysayer or negative comment, it is by and large positive comments from women seeking advice or understanding, they told CNA.
However, they added, sometimes sharing the truth about the Church’s teaching may make people uncomfortable, even when it is done in a loving way.
“It’s never right to speak uncharitably, but it’s always right to charitably speak the truth,” Anneli Schraufnagel, one of the cofounders of You Me and NFP (YMNFP), told CNA.
“So a lot of these conversations that women are having, I think (they) are trying to, as sisters, come to the truth of their Catholic faith because the truth of their Catholic faith ultimately will bring them joy.”
That is something that can be easy to miss for an NFP outsider looking in – that practicing NFP, as a part of the Catholic faith, is something that brings many women and families peace and joy – even if they complain about some nitty gritty details along the way.
“Sometimes the Catholic Church’s teachings are hard, but sometimes hard things bring us happiness,” Schraufnagel said. “And…the ‘why’s’ behind the Catholic teaching, we need to talk about them.”
Besides some of the physical benefits of NFP, which include avoiding putting additional hormones or medical devices in one’s body, the “Why NFP” section of the YMNFP website includes women talking about the “joy” that NFP brings because of the sacrifices it requires, such as periodic abstinence. They also mention feeling at peace because they are able to plan their families according to what they believe is God’s plan for sexuality and marriage.
“I don’t want to sugarcoat NFP and say that it is all sunshine and daisies because it requires sacrifice and sacrifice is never easy! But the joy that grows out of selfless love, expressed through NFP, is one of the greatest blessings you can give to yourself and to your spouse,” reads one post from Ellen on YMNFP.
“I adore my husband, and by eliminating the pill I’m now so much more able to show him that. We are living, and loving each other, authentically,” reads another quote from Jen, an NFP user.
Couples who practice NFP also experience lower divorce rates, YMNFP notes. According to a study published by the National Institutes of Health, “among the women who ever used NFP only 9.6 percent were currently divorced compared with the 14.4 percent who were currently divorced among the women who never used NFP.” The study noted that the religiosity of the couples who practice NFP may be a contributing factor to the lower divorce rates.
Schraufnagel said the numerous benefits of NFP that she and her cofounders have experienced are the main reasons they started YMNFP.
“That’s a huge aspect of our team at You Me and NFP; we are really passionate because we see how beautiful the Catholic Church’s teachings are and how much joy is brought into our lives because of it, including, our family lives as well. And part of that is our sexuality,” she added.
“So I think it needs to be brought up and talked about in the culture that these truths are beautiful.”
[…]
The publicly available tax exempt income return that Catholic Charities of Cleveland filed with the IRS for 2023 reported revenue of $60 million, salaries of $39.8M and fundraising expenses of $18.9M. Ten employees made over $100K, with the retiring CEO pulling down $278K. He made over $200K annually going back to at least 2014 (the earliest year return online). I don’t how much they got from the federal government for immigration services, but I assume it was a lot. Refugee resettlement is a very lucrative racket for some church bureaucrats. Cardinal Dolan is correct, they’re not in solely for the money. There is a hardcore ideological commitment to the bringing about the demographic transformation of America and the entire West among many of the staffers of Catholic Charities and some of the bishops. Whatever this may be, it’s not an act of mercy to destroy nations by flooding them with unassimilable immigrants from every corner of the world and to cooperate in human trafficking.
Tony, those wages are a scandal. Well done for publishing them here.
How much do the 10 top wage earners at Catholic charities in New York rake in??? Anyone?
CC NY looks lean and mean. The salaries are not excessive for the NY area.
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/135562185
This kerfuffle is more about pleasing Pope Francis so that Cardinal Dolan might stay until he is 80.
We see New York charity workers on 234.000 a year, 200.000 a year…
You should ask what salaries are for leadership at CRS, CC-USA, etc., etc
Very well said! I worked in social services and had a great deal of contact with Catholic Charities USA. They were leftist idealogues. A Catholic charity which operates for the Church and uses Church resources and donations can remain faithful. A charity which takes govt grants and contracts accepts a secular straightjacket often ideologically leftist.
Yes, James Collins, for many at CC-USA, the leftist ideology IS their religion. I went to some of their meetings in Alexandria VA and came away mightily UNIMPRESSED.
How many charitable Orgs have 50% of their funds actually used for Charity, that to me is a problem. The issue for the USCCB also, as a priority, continues to be our Christian faith values. Now saying that, there is the question in a lot of Catholics (Christians) regarding their continued emphasis on “migrants” and any consideration of “illegal” tied to that word. The question of how to deal with criminals who are illegal migrants and have wreaked havoc on so many in our nation and from where they came. What is the USCCB stance on this? Does the Catholic Church then offer sanctuary to those individuals, is it considered to be the same as “the sacredness of the Confessional”? It is rare that our Pope, our Cardinals or Bishops ever speak of this to “set us on the path of truth”, instead we are all left to have our own opinions, to determine in our “hearts and souls” what is actually right…. then these consecrated Shepherds wonder why Catholics are split in their beliefs and even Faith. Should the govt come into schools, churches, etc…. No! What do we do about criminals that decide to seek sanctuary, do we offer it and put more people at risk and in danger?
It’s the American tax payer who is the loser. We are paying for the upkeep of illegal migrants whether through the Catholic Church, who is getting paid by our government or the US Government itself. The question is, would the Catholic Church provide for the illegal migrant if they did not receive payment for their deeds?
As a CPA who routinely reviews those documents, I see an industry, not a charity.
And let me also opine, the amounts involved are “material”. Not only does money not talk, it screams bloody murder-and it is much like power-in that money tends to corrupt, and large sums tend to corrupt absolutely.
Please keep in mind that the phrase “non-profit” is a misnomer of the tax regulatory term “not for INDIVIDUAL profit”. It is not intended to mean that the enterprise doesn’t “turn a profit”, simply that those profits are not returned to legal stockholders. Of course, tax-exempts love to trade on public ignorance; fomenting the idea that they are indifferent to their bottom line-and I assure you any organization that fails to be run with prudence is nothing but a bankruptcy-in-training.
The great irony of the lack of formal stockholders is that the enterprise is run for the benefit of its paid employees, who often enjoy remuneration, security and employment demands that difficult to be found elsewhere-even as they often publicly act as though their employment is more morally noble that private sector employment.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t recall much coming from Dolan during the Biden administration and its assault on marriage, family and sex (both as an act and as a bilogical fact).
So in protesting, I think he has validated Vance’s contention, not disputed it.
Besides; with only about six weeks to go until St, Patrick’s Day, doesn’t the Cardinal need to make ready for the annual gay pride parade masquerading as the celebration of the French Saint?
While the Vatican threatens illegal aliens with dire punishments if they trespass:
“Vatican Promises Stiff Penalties for Illegal Aliens Crossing its Border”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/01/16/vatican-promises-stiff-penalties-for-illegal-aliens-crossing-its-border/
I need to leave comments about demographics. Your fears really surprise me and I find them disappointing. A half starved woman and little child at our borders seeking food and a chance to make a living are someone Jesus would assist. President Reagan knew this.
In order to secure our borders, how about instead of arresting a father of five children on his way to work. How about the Mexican Cartels, Neghetra Italian mafia, the US Mob families, the Hells Angels, Outlaws and other 1% Bijer criminal clubs. These are just a few of the organizations that cross are borders with impunity, engaging in drugs sex trafficking, money laundering, arms trafficking, tax evasion etc. These are areas that rock our nation to its core, and are a direct threat on the rule of law and our sovereignty. The Pope and the Catholic Church make mistakes they are led by imperfect humans. After stating that, the fact our Border Czar willingness to go into a church and bust somebody for their immigration status, and nothing else, stinks. We have a President who was busted for hiring illegal immigrants to tear down buildings then refusing to pay them ( public record). His advisor Mr Musk violated his student visa requirements and then used similar false information on his citizenship application. Now both of them want to increase H1B visas to have what I would term indentured servants, because they would be willing to work fourteen hours days, seven days a week, sleep on a factory floor, for the opportunity to be a part of this great country.
My previous comment (I hope it gets posted – I just made my annual donation to CWR!) contained one error. The fundraising expensing referred to came to $2.3M, not $18.9.
Whew, glad it was only $2.3 M to raise money from the government..?
Glad for the truth about the money Tony. But since you hit a nerve, be prepared for the following reply:
“Sorry, but your comment doesn’t make much sense and is quite cynical considering the work of _______, etc.”
Still your numbers are scandalous. Thank you, Tony. The salary levels speaks of the arrogance that one often sees in diocesan lay employees and a layer of bureaucracy that qualifies as a level of obstructive clericalism.
Well, it looks like the ice has been broken, and now a conversation can take place. For years the USCCB rhetoric on immigration has disappointed me, but now maybe they can explain themselves and lay it out there so we can all judge their judgements a little better.
Spare us, your grace, your mitre is a bit tight…
Did you condemn biden for joining the freemasons? His support for abortion? Mutilation of children?
Then suddenly when a good Catholic calls you out, you get your pink mafia cassock in a bunch…
Amen! Vance spoke the truth.
Mary Jane. Vance, who has NO governing experience. He seems to want to govern the actions of my Cardinal Tim Dolan. John Donald Vance has been MAGA stung. “Catholic convert?” Vance is complicit with his ignorance of prolific lying. He might refer to the Catechism 2478 III… Offenses Against Truth. To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way. Vance might get off with accepting “little white lies”. However, prolific lying infects the minds of our vulnerable youngsters. Offenses Against Truth are not white.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_three/section_two/chapter_two/article_8/iii_offenses_against_truth.html
Mr Morgan, with respect Church teachings against rash judgment, detraction, calumny and the like don’t just just apply to members of the GOP or President Trump’s VP.
We are all instructed to act that way.
morganD: Have you ever considered applying your sanctimonious attitude to your own words and motivations?
Catholic “Charities” has been involved for years in funding groups directly involved in the crushing of unborn babies with their disbursements and complaints to bishops have fallen on deaf ears.
Now, come after me with your vile accusations.
Do you know that Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Richmond actually drove a 14 year old Hispanic girl in their custody under one of these government contracts for an abortion? As her legal guardian the Catholic Charities head actually signed petmission for this abortion. I’d like Cardinal Dolan to know that the fruits of these contracts between the Church and the Feds has done great harm and committed grave, mortally perilous evils. And then, after the dirty deed was committed the bishops at the USCCB conspired to cover this up. If you don’t believe me, post your email address and I’ll send you a copy of the conspiratorial letter.
yes, I’ve heard these situations, esp over funding it in Africa, are one reason parishioner are not funding CSA, over worries some of it will go for those nasty purposes
Project much?
YOU have no governing experience.
Of course, if you can’t actually dispute the contention, you can offer an ad hominem attack under the veneer of rectitude.
Man, the political left folllows its playbook with fealty.
Excellent point, Fr j!
He does seem to be getting a tad sensitive.
Spot on agree 💯
Serious Crimes Committed by Illegal Aliens | FAIRus.org https://search.app/EnQi3NjLJrvnQA55A
Maybe instead of the Bishop Dolan being “disappointed” with Vance, Americans should be disappointed with the Bishop along with the whole USCCB for not apologizing to the family of Laken Riley and all the other many victimized families of illegal immigration due to their continuing support of the democratic parties open border policies despite being proven over and over to be deadly.
Dolan: Don’t get so high and mighty to those of us who are onto the game the bishops, the USCCB, CCHD, CLINIC, CRS and Catholic Chatities USA are playing. It IS all about the money. The Catholic Church has become an agent of the Federal government, and more particulary, the leftist Democrat Party.
ALL contracts (i.e. the money flow) between the Federal government and the Catholic Church MUST END NOW! I was once the Director of my diocese’s Catholic Charities and I’ve seen the corruption firsthand. We’re on to you corrupt bishops and not afraid to speak out.
And another thing, Cardinal Dolan: Don’t even dare to make the case that Catholics (or for that matter all Americans) don’t want immigration of the poor and others from South of our borders. That would be disingenuous. Americans WANT immigration. We just DO NOT WANT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Now get that straight.
It’s true that many US Citizens do want immigration & don’t care where immigrants come from as long as they come here lawfully. Otherwise our workforce will continue to be shrink & age out in the future since we aren’t having children at a replacement level.
But unfortunately there are also a number of people in the States, Catholic & otherwise, who do oppose immigration from some parts of Latin America. Haiti for instance.
Americans want cheap labor that works hard and doesn’t complain. These illegals keep our economy running hot, enabling you to live a good lifestyle. Hundreds of thousands of Americans get rich using illegal immigrant labor and these Americans welcome these illegals with open arms. The Bishops use government money to help these illegals with shelter, food, clothing toiletries, and spiritual guidance. Eternal salvation comes to Believers who obey the Teachings of Christ.
It’s not about money at all. It’s about helping people in need of food, shelter, clothing, toiletries, and spiritual guidance. Eternal salvation comes to believers who obey the teachings of Christ.
A very good sentiment. Do you have any concrete ideas of how you personally would sustain these acts of charity? For how long, for how many, and where exactly?
The Catholic Thing, Jan. 30, 2025.
Also related TCT article (from 2013).
I want to make something very clear to Cardinal Dolan: You are NOT my bishop. You may as well be speaking as the bishop of Outer Mongolia. However, Cardinal, Vice-President Vance IS my Vice-president. He was speaking as a government official giving his thoughts on contracts the Federal government has had in the past with the Catholic Church.
Cardinal Dolan, anything you say as a bishop should remain in your lane i.e. ecclesial matters. As a USA citizen you get to express your opinion about political matters but your opinion in this regard carries no more weight than anyone else’s. Stay in your own lane and, most especially, stay in your own diocese. Even the USCCB cannot speak for all the bishops in the USA; each bishop governs his own diocese.
This Bishop WAS asked to pray at the inauguration so perhaps it IS proper to comment on an issue taken up by THIS administration.
And, James Connor, he could not even utter the name of Jesus Christ once in his so-called prayer. I thought we’d been instructed to pray in Jesus’ name!
“I don’t really care, Margaret.”
– JD Vance
I stopped giving to CRS when I found out they had Sister Carol Keehan on their board of directors. To remind everyone, as head of the Catholic Health Association she played a crucial role in passing the Affordable Care Act (Obama Care) in 2010.
Well, looks like Cardinal Gladhand doesn’t like being told the truth!
“Eminence” Dolan and his USCCB colleagues are engaged in what people in the arts world call “poverty pimping.” And poverty pumping always involves “artistry.”
This term in the arts world is used to describe “artists” who run government funded programs to deliver “art” to “those less fortunate.” The primary beneficiaries of this arrangement are, as mentioned above by Tony W, the “head if the art studio” who gets himself or herself paid handsomely by the government bureaucrats running the the great society “arts” program, and the career bureaucrats paid to dole out the ill-gotten revenues to the povery pimping studio heads.
Why do artists call this grift “poverty pimping” you might ask? Because the actual artists that are sent to “deliver the arts” to the less fortunate are paid dirt-low wages by the poverty pimping studio heads who make their living doing this racket.
This is exactly what the poverty-pimping USCCB bureaucracy is doing with their participation in the outlaw illegal immigration industry. They are paying their USCCB staffs, and virtue signaling about their “preferential option for the poor” and their “concern for the most vulnerable.”
We can all see what’s going on, and thank you to Vuce President Vance for calling out the grifters of the USCCB.
At TCT this morning, Michael Pakulak takes the USCCB to task on its participation in the illegal immigration racketeering:
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/
That link you shared did not go to the article you gave us to read about the USCCB.
CC and the US govt is a well oiled machine. https://x.com/BenBergquam/status/1836159809407647836?t=a4VQ629WIcscC3hyLJ_0oA&s=19
Call me if and when the USCCB budgets as much for the pro-Life office as they do their immigration office…
Who can blame Cardinal Dolan for scolding an elected lay person for daring to speak out about how the Bishops spend the tax dollars of lay people! How shocked the Bishops must have been to be told by a politician to “look in the mirror”? How could such advice have failed to strike a nerve? We haven’t seen his Eminence this animated since he opened “Heavenly Bodies: Fashion and the Catholic Imagination” at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. The VP had better make nice, or he might not get an invitation to the Al Smith dinner when he runs for President. Elected officials should know how perilous it is to cross other politicians.
Too funny!!
The Bishops are using this tax money to help people in need. Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need?
how is killing an unborn directly or indirectly helping?
“Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need?” Yes.
Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need avoid the border laws of a country like the Vatican? No.
This episode might have a happy ending. The Cardinal might get 5 more years, Vance might get the Republican nomination for President, and both might be sitting next to each other in a few years at the Al Smith dinner laughing like only politicians can. Cardinal Dolan might even get to pray at the Inauguration of President Vance.
Wow! The bishops find their voice. You can kill all the babies you want to but don’t touch our very lucrative income source. They join with the elites in favor of illegals and against their flocks. Interesting! We’ll see more of this as our country returns to common sense.
The remarks by Mr. Vance were true. This is why “Catholic Charities” are being defunded. The BILLION dollar pipeline is being turned off. I approve. Government handouts are not the best means for true charity. Too many illegals, too much sex and drug trafficking has been facilitated by these agencies. It needs to stop.
Why are the bishops so eager to support illegal immigration? Why can they not tell would be illegals simply to “obey the law?” Are they spiritual leaders or Democratic activists?
As for the money – It is high time that Lay people, people in the pew, donors, had full and truthful info on exactly where the money is going. The awful abuse crisis never would have become so widespread for so long if Lay people knew their church donations were going to pay hush money to victims, to cover up the sins of clergy who should have been in jail, to pay $$$$$$ to attorneys to arrange the cover up, etc. The people would have demanded a stop to this sleazy sordid clerical behavior at once.
The Bishops are helping people in need. What are you doing to help people in need?
He is helping people who are breaking the law. That makes him an accomplice.
That link you shared did not go to the article you gave us to read about the USCCB.
Kudos to Cardinal Dolan for standing up against Vice President Vance on this issue. The Church must push back aggressively about our moral stance on all issues. This administration is ruthlessly carrying out its agenda in unprecedented ways and trying to silence and eliminate opposition. This is not the way we do things in this country and we must push back. I also appreciate the Cardinal’s public recognition of Vance’s stance on family life and education. We must also give due credit when due. This administration does stand for many good things and they deserve our support and recognition. We must pray for all our leaders.
No
“This administration is ruthlessly carrying out its agenda in unprecedented ways and trying to silence and eliminate opposition.”
A falsehood tinged with a pretense of morality is still a falsehood. You didn’t seem to have an issue when B. Hussein Obama, your progressive darling, deported over 3 million people. And based on our recent history, the progressive Democrats you support have been far more aggressive in trying to silence opposition and shut down discussion. Your viewpoints might be more fitting for a more left-leaning site.
you can’t have a free for all in a welfare country or you’ll go broke
Two conflicting quotes and three afterthoughts:
FIRST, we read from Cardinal Dolan: “You want to come look at our audits, which are scrupulously done? You think we make money caring for the immigrants? We’re losing it hand over fist … we’re not in a money-making business.”
SECOND, but we also read (article): “In 2023, the latest year for which figures are available, the USCCB spent nearly $131 million on migration and refugee services, with nearly $130 million of that cost being covered by government grants, primarily from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the U.S. Department of State.”
THIRD, yours truly would like to see a more complete account of apples and oranges accounting. Both assertions might be true. But, about a complete set of books, what does it also mean to participate in a porous border policy (?)—with, for example, over 8,000 deaths on the desert (etc.) among the attracted illegal immigrants, and at least 400,000 youth subject to sex trafficking, and well over 100 rural hospitals closed over unpaid overloads.
FOURTH, given all of the “pull” factors here alongside all the “push” factors there in failed nation-states, we are surely in a new era where the Catholic Social Teaching requires a new class of interpreters of the caliber of St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
While Dolan blundered, in another matter, by welcoming the LGBTQ demographic (not a community) into New York’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade, it’s probably still inaccurate to tar him and all the bishops with the same brush more deserved by McElroy, Cupich, Tobin (New Jersey) & Co.
FIFTH, about political, economic and societal incoherence, the great prophet Honore de Balzac got it just about right when he said “bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies.”
And, the eminent and early 20th-century sociologist Max Weber foresaw the whole disjointed modern thing in his tome “Bureaucracy.” Staring into the coming world, he landed himself for a few years in an asylum able to read only bird books and books on art. Impenitently committed to the Enlightenment, said he still of our coming rationalization and bureaucratization: “Not summer’s bloom lies ahead of us, but rather a polar night of icy darkness and hardness.”
WHAT A GREAT TIME for prayer, and for a “listening” that is less polarized, technocracized, politicized, algorithmized–and even apostasized!
But, surely AI must be the answer! In a de-sacralized universe, digitally layer the bureaucracies together!
Peter, very well said!
Cardinal Dolan, as Chair of the Near East Welfare Association (NEWA), has done much good work in advocacy for the persecuted and neglected in the Holy Land. Perhaps it would be well for his critics to see how much they have contributed to the good of others. It’s much easier to criticize than to praise.
Br. Jaques, are you in line for a promotion?
“You’re being such a meanie!” What a pathetic but typical response from a progressive. No substance, no substantive arguments, no nuanced discussion, just name calling. This from the same cardinal who has provided cover for James Martin for how many decades? Sorry cardinal, you’re going to have to do better than that if you expect people to take you seriously. Most of us tuned you out a long time ago.
Dolan doesn’t get that we see the deal. The fact the churches are getting anything from taxpayers is shameful. They take from both taxpayers AND parishioners! That’s some good gig!
yes, our parish took a small PP loan and one of the council members remarked as to whether it was even moral to do so
Vice-President Vance’s remarks were painfully on target. Indeed, it could be thought that they were offered too kindly.
The facade of naive sentimentalism worn by the USCCB is quite transparent. It unintentionally provides cover to criminal operations, now designated terrorist organizations, which exploit men, women and children in terrifying financial and physical ways, ending often in the worst abuse, torture and murder. It difficult to believe our bishops are unaware of these gross realities.
The episcopate’s concern for justice had best take into account as well justice for disadvantaged citizens of the United States, not only illegal immigrants whose situation is best addressed in their native lands.
Given their inadequate and unrealistic response to the nature of illegal migration one can only conclude this issue is above the competency of our bishops. Obviously they are not up to confronting the injustice presently rife within the Church. Of course the consequences for addressing that mess are far more threatening, while barking at the new administration allows them the moral high horse.
Woke be the flavor of the day.
We should applaud the bishops wherever they are in the world for their corporal works of mercy.
The Martha dimension.
As for the spiritual works, could the bishops, the clergy do better?
And so many do.
Sit at the feet of Christ as did Mary, correct and convert sinners, instruct the ignorant, counsel the doubtful, bear wrongs patiently .
The former course will be applauded by the zeitgeist and rightly so.
The latter course of spiritual mercy will take enormous courage.
The zeitgeist will not be pleased.
Invasion is not the equivalent of a “migration.”
I did not appreciate the Cardinal’s back-handing of Vance. Dolan is my Cardinal. If this is his example of leadership, mark me unimpressed, if not disgusted. It is my understanding that Catholic Charities has facilities in MEXICO where they counsel illegals on EXACTLY what to say and do in order to remain in the US and get financial support once they get there. You know, all the free stuff for which US taxpayers foot the bill. If this is not against US law, it should be. For now, lets say it is simply immoral and smarmy. There are literally billions of poor people in other parts of the world. The reality is we CANNOT afford to take them all in here. The 20 million illegals we are presently stuck with has come close to bankrupting several blue American cities. We cannot muster enough resources to care for our OWN poor properly. Maybe Catholic Charities needs to tell the leaders of OTHER nations that they should be caring for their own poor?? My guess is they will not, lest they be expelled from the country, jailed, or worse. Evidently that makes truthful US politicians a free target for Dolan. Dolan needs to remember that his Catholic parishioners here are AMERICANS too. I suggest it would be unwise of him to force us to make a choice between the two. A lot of church pews are empty already.
In the end, our Catholic Church leaders can provide all the assistance they want to those in our country illegally. One caveat, however, the Catholic Church should USE ITS OWN MONEY and not taxpayer dollars to do so. All those contracts between the Federal Government and the Catholic Church need to end NOW. I do not want my Churcĥ to be an extension ofcsecular government.
“I was really disappointed with what he said.”
Now do Fr. James Martin.
“The USCCB has not been a good partner in commonsense immigration enforcement that the American people voted for, and I hope, again, as a devout Catholic, that they’ll do better.”
Diplomatic and true.
So the Church has been helping people in need by providing a place to sleep a meal to eat, providing clothing, toiletries, a place to worship and words of encouragement. This is what Christ instructed the Church to do. Eternal salvation comes to those people obey the teachings of Christ.
Gerald: And helping them to violate Federal law. Sorry, not in my Church.
Christ did not call his people to help those who are breaking the law. That makes us accomplices to their crimes.
Give unto Ceaser…
VP Vance was fairly spot on
The crooked Cardinal doth protest too much. And not a word against the Biden Administration’s mad-dog pursuit of abortion ‘rights’.
Above comment corrected [ommitted incorrect line about “Obama 2008 baseball caps” – they were present, but before Dolan arrived in NYC; added, “nay, three”]. Hopefully you’ll approve this one and not the first, if you approve any of them:
Two things I know about Timothy Dolan, nay three:
1. He arrived in NYC (from Milwaukee) beaming before the cameras about how many hot dogs he ate and how he was a “Yankees fan.” Sorry. Never trusted him from that moment on. Presumably he was a Brewers fan the day before.
2. His position on abortion was to “keep it safe, legal and rare.” Lots can be said about that, but the first thing one notices is that it’s a well-worn politician’s talking-point. Concluded long ago that he is a politican.
3. Then came the travesty of American governance known as “Obamacare.” Then-Archbishop Dolan comandeered column-inches in NYC parish bulletins to proclaim the disingenuous if not outright claim that “the Church has been promoting nationalized healthcare for over a hundred years,” and thereby passive-aggressivewly pushing Catholics to support it. Of course, his claim was thereafter debunked and the obfuscations clarified by Bishp Nickless in a profound essay on the nature of subsidiarity. Then I had to conclude that he’s a leftist hack.
And then they made him a Cardinal.
Shook his hand at a service once — brilliantly performed, of course. Behind that Hollywood smile is gaze as cold and dead as ice. But that’s just my opinion.
May God save Cdl. Dolan, all the Bishops, and His Church.
That’s why we probably need to allow married men into the priesthood.
The ends do not always justify the means.
I appreciate the insights offered in the article regarding Cardinal Dolan’s remarks on the intersection of bishops and immigration policies. It’s quite refreshing to see a clear stance on such a complex and often polarizing topic. To expand on this discussion, it’s worth noting that the role of the Church in immigration issues isn’t new. Historically, religious institutions have acted as advocates for marginalized communities, often stepping in where governments fall short. For instance, organizations like Catholic Charities don’t just provide immediate relief but also engage in systemic advocacy to influence immigration policies. This holistic approach can foster more comprehensive solutions that reflect the Church’s values of compassion and dignity. Additionally, the theological aspect of this issue can’t be overlooked. Many argue that the Church’s teachings emphasize the inherent dignity of all individuals, regardless of their immigration status. This raises meaningful questions about how faith leaders can balance doctrinal convictions with public policy advocacy. As we consider these dynamics, I’m curious about how legal measures, such as the “writ of mandamus,” could play a role in addressing immigration cases where timely action is needed from authorities. How might faith leaders utilize such legal tools to further their advocacy for vulnerable immigrant communities?