Denver, Colo., Jan 15, 2018 / 02:37 pm (CNA).- After an abortion,men and women can experience deep feelings of sadness and emptiness, suicidal thoughts, dreams of the aborted child, trouble with intimacy and difficulty bonding with future children, according to an expert in the field.
Vicki Thorn, founder of Project Rachel and the National Office for Post Abortion Reconciliation and Healing, told CNA Jan. 11 these experiences are “a big secret” nobody wants to address, which sometimes prevents women and men who have been involved in an abortion from talking about their difficulties.
“There’s a lot involved there,” she said, explaining that many abortion clinics and post-abortion websites will tell women that having an abortion was a good thing, but minimize adverse reactions by saying “we understand you might be feeling bad.”
However, Thorn – a certified trauma counselor and a member of the member of the Pontifical Academy for Life – said that despite apparent reassurances that feelings of sadness and regret are no big deal, the reality is that post-abortion, men and women both are “haunted by this experience.”
According to a recent report from the Guttmacher Institute, some 56 million abortions were performed globally each year between 2010-2014, with 25 percent of all pregnancies during those years ending in abortion.
The highest number of abortions took place in developing nations, as well as many eastern European countries. While the number of annual abortions in developed nations dropped significantly during the years of the study, it rose in underdeveloped nations, mostly due to population growth, according to the study.
But despite the relative silence on the post-abortive experience, some celebrities have spoken out about the profound pain and regret they feel over past abortions, some of which took place years ago.
Among the high-profile personalities who’ve addressed the issue are Eminem, Sinead O’Connor, Nicki Minaj, Kid Rock, and Kenny Rogers.
In his new album “Revival,” released Dec. 15, 2017, Eminem includes a song called “River,” telling the story of a man who had an affair with a woman, and the couple’s choice to end a pregnancy through abortion.
The chorus of the song talks about the pain he feels, and his desire for forgiveness from the “sins” of his past: “I’ve been a liar, been a thief/Been a lover, been a cheat/All my sins need holy water, feel it washing over me/Well, little one/I don’t want to admit to something/If all it’s gonna cause is pain/The truth and my lies now are falling like the rain/So let the river run.”
Later, in the last verse of the song, he speaks to both the woman and the baby, saying: “I made you terminate my baby/This love triangle left us in a wreck, tangled/What else can I say? It was fun for a while/Bet I really woulda loved your smile/ Didn’t really wanna abort, but – it/What’s one more lie, to tell our unborn child?”
Similarly, in her 2012 track “Autobiography,” Nicki Minaj refers to an abortion she had at 16. In the song, she asks her child for forgiveness, saying “I’m trapped in my conscience/I adhered to the nonsense, listened to people who told me I wasn’t ready for you.”
“But how the – would they know what I was ready to do? And of course it wasn’t your fault (no)/It’s like I feel you the air, I hear you saying ‘Mommy don’t cry, can’t you see I’m right here?’ (yes)/ I gotta let you know what you mean to me, when I’m sleeping, I see you in my dreams with me.”
In his song “Abortion,” released in 2000, Kid Rock talks about the grief of a father after an abortion that is so great he contemplates suicide, saying “I’ve never heard you cry I’ve never seen you whine…I must die to get to you…where’s my gun…”
Kenny Rogers released the song “Water and Bridges” in 2006, in which he sings about decisions that are “much too late to change…/How a father could have held his son/If I could undo what’s been done/But I guess everyone is living/With water and bridges.”
Thorn said Sinead O’Connor was the first artist she ever heard sing about abortion in her 1990 track “My Special Child,” which talks about the sadness she experienced after she had an abortion after a relationship broke down.
Each of the sentiments expressed by these artists “are common experiences,” Thorn said, explaining that men and women can have different reactions to abortion based on their biology and experiences of pregnancy.
For women between the ages of 11-19, Thorn noted that their brains haven’t finished developing, and they operate mostly out of the amygdala, which is the fear center of the brain. Many young women who have abortions, then, “make this decision out of fear.”
A woman’s brain can’t fully process trauma until 25, when the corpus callosum, which is “the linker between the right brain and left brain,” becomes fully active, Thorn said, explaining that in the early years of her pro-life work, she couldn’t understand why most of her calls were from women around 25 years old.
“I thought that was the weirdest thing in the world,” she said, noting that it wasn’t until several years later when she learned more about brain research that she understood women were calling “because now they can process it.”
For the woman who’s had an abortion and is struggling with the decision, “we have to remember that she’s a mother who lost her child in a traumatic and unnatural fashion,” Thorn said. “Society says abortion is a simple medical procedure, but we don’t talk about what really happens.”
In terms of biology, Thorn said pregnant women go through something called “microchimerism,” in which cells from the child pass to the mother. And in cases of abortion or miscarriage, women carry more cells from those children than children they give birth to.
“These cells are part of biological knowledge, someone’s missing,” she said, explaining that the feelings could come up at any time, even years later, but at a certain point there is a “trigger-incident’, and I’m suddenly aware that that abortion was an offending event.”
The sense of loss that comes after is enormous, she said. And while globally abortion is discussed as something that “solves a problem” as simple as a fixing a bunion, “it’s much, much deeper, and that knowledge of the cells makes a difference.”
“The sadness, this sense of responsibility, ‘I did this.’ Those are all parts of her experience,” Thorn said, adding that many times a woman will have a second or third abortion because “she’s compelled to get pregnant again. It’s a biological thing. She started the cycle of pregnancy and all the changes that go with it, and didn’t finish it.”
And it’s not just women. Men also have a biological experience, she said, and can tell that a woman is pregnant before she herself knows “because our scent changes…at four weeks we smell different.”
If the woman is with her partner during pregnancy, his body also undergoes “the whole raft of changes, hormonal and other things.” Men, she said, frequently experience “couvade,” also called “sympathy pregnancy,” in which they have some of same symptoms as the expectant mother.
As the end of the pregnancy gets nearer, the man’s hormones “go crazy,” Thorn said. “His testosterone drops, his estrogen goes up, he gets more of a bonding hormone and he gets a nursing hormone for at least six weeks. We don’t talk about that. But those are real, physiological changes.”
She said there are many men who would have tried to stop the abortion of their child if they’d had the chance. “They would have put their life in front of a car, and they grieve deeply, deeply.”
There are the men who wanted the abortion and later regret it, there are men who wanted to keep the baby but were told it wasn’t not their decision, and there are men who were never told about a pregnancy and didn’t find out until years after the abortion and are “blown out of the water,” Thorn said.
“For men, in a sense the grief for men is difficult because they’re told that they should have no feelings about this. It’s her body, it’s her life, it’s none of your business, so he doesn’t have a place to turn,” she added.
In the end, “they turn to drugs, they turn to pornography because they swore they’ll never touch a woman again, depression, all kinds of things.”
She said it’s important for men to have a voice in the discussion because “biologically they are changed by the pregnancy, there’s a physiological thing going on here. He can’t control that, that’s biology. God is turning him into a father.”
Suicide is also frequent and strong temptation for both men and women post-abortion, she said, recalling stories she’s heard of men with seemingly perfect lives who jumped from bridges and no one understood why until a friend or relative revealed that there had been an abortion that the man “had never recovered from.”
Thorn said that just a few years ago in Milwaukee there was a murder-suicide prompted by an abortion in which a man killed his girlfriend and then killed himself after she had an abortion he did not want.
Many men who would have tried to stop the abortion of their child but couldn’t do it at times confess to having “violent thoughts” because “they couldn’t protect” their baby, Thorn said. “It’s this sense of male impotence, not sexual impotence, but that men are protectors, and they really struggle with that.”
Women, especially during the teen years, “are ten times more likely to attempt suicide after an abortion in the months that follow, that first six to eight months,” Thorn said. “That tells you the depth of the woundedness.”
After those first months, “denial kicks in,” she said, noting that while women will say they are doing fine, “they’re emotionally very numb.”
Commitment also becomes an issue for men and women after abortions, she said, explaining that “only about 30 percent of couples survive abortions as a couple.”
If they move on to another relationship, they often won’t tell their partners about feelings of betrayal or regret, “and that’s going to be an intimacy killer in the bedroom, because she doesn’t trust men – the one she was with forced her to have an abortion – and he doesn’t women, it was his fiance that had his child aborted, so this is a huge wound.”
Women suffering from an abortion loss will often go into a “shut-down” phase, she said, noting that it is these women who become staunch defenders of abortion, and are the loudest voices arguing that it’s a woman’s right.
“That’s another way to cope,” she said. Pointing to various stories of people who have left the abortion industry, Thorn noted that “almost all of them had their own abortions first or during that time. It’s a way to cope with what they’ve done; I need it, other women must need it, so I’m going to protect that right.”
“It’s a very incredibly deep sadness and women never forget. They have the biology that makes it impossible to forget, it’s always a part of them,” she said, adding that in her experience, the people who have found help and healed from past abortions “never support abortion again.”
Abortion can also affect parenting and one’s relationship with future children, because women who don’t heal after an abortion “don’t bond very well in a different pregnancy. They’re very over protective, but sometimes they’re emotionally distant from their child.”
Fathers, on the other hand, “are overly committed to the child and become enmeshed, they really sort of take the role of the mother and push the mother away.”
Other family members, such as siblings or cousins, are also affected by abortion, she said, noting that she has met many people who grew up with a strong sensation that they should have had a brother or sister, and only later found out that an abortion had taken place.
In her view, Thorn said there is not enough discussion or awareness about the effects of abortion “because it’s an uncomfortable piece, because there are so many abortions and people do not want to talk about it.”
“But what we’re seeing in these songs is people are finding a way to tell their story to somebody in hopes that somebody’s listening, and that’s part of the healing process, is an opportunity to tell the story,” she said.
The fact that so many songs are being sung about the topic is “an indication that people are looking for a way to speak the truth about what happened,” she said, “and that’s a way to do it if that’s your talent and your gift.”
If you or someone you know is suffering after abortion, confidential non-judgmental help is available:
Call Project Rachel’s national toll-free number: 888-456-HOPE(-4673) or visit HopeAfterAbortion.org.
Spanish-speakers may visit EsperanzaPosaborto.org”
Help is also available for men at http://menandabortion.info/
[…]
The publicly available tax exempt income return that Catholic Charities of Cleveland filed with the IRS for 2023 reported revenue of $60 million, salaries of $39.8M and fundraising expenses of $18.9M. Ten employees made over $100K, with the retiring CEO pulling down $278K. He made over $200K annually going back to at least 2014 (the earliest year return online). I don’t how much they got from the federal government for immigration services, but I assume it was a lot. Refugee resettlement is a very lucrative racket for some church bureaucrats. Cardinal Dolan is correct, they’re not in solely for the money. There is a hardcore ideological commitment to the bringing about the demographic transformation of America and the entire West among many of the staffers of Catholic Charities and some of the bishops. Whatever this may be, it’s not an act of mercy to destroy nations by flooding them with unassimilable immigrants from every corner of the world and to cooperate in human trafficking.
Tony, those wages are a scandal. Well done for publishing them here.
How much do the 10 top wage earners at Catholic charities in New York rake in??? Anyone?
CC NY looks lean and mean. The salaries are not excessive for the NY area.
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/135562185
This kerfuffle is more about pleasing Pope Francis so that Cardinal Dolan might stay until he is 80.
We see New York charity workers on 234.000 a year, 200.000 a year…
You should ask what salaries are for leadership at CRS, CC-USA, etc., etc
Very well said! I worked in social services and had a great deal of contact with Catholic Charities USA. They were leftist idealogues. A Catholic charity which operates for the Church and uses Church resources and donations can remain faithful. A charity which takes govt grants and contracts accepts a secular straightjacket often ideologically leftist.
Yes, James Collins, for many at CC-USA, the leftist ideology IS their religion. I went to some of their meetings in Alexandria VA and came away mightily UNIMPRESSED.
How many charitable Orgs have 50% of their funds actually used for Charity, that to me is a problem. The issue for the USCCB also, as a priority, continues to be our Christian faith values. Now saying that, there is the question in a lot of Catholics (Christians) regarding their continued emphasis on “migrants” and any consideration of “illegal” tied to that word. The question of how to deal with criminals who are illegal migrants and have wreaked havoc on so many in our nation and from where they came. What is the USCCB stance on this? Does the Catholic Church then offer sanctuary to those individuals, is it considered to be the same as “the sacredness of the Confessional”? It is rare that our Pope, our Cardinals or Bishops ever speak of this to “set us on the path of truth”, instead we are all left to have our own opinions, to determine in our “hearts and souls” what is actually right…. then these consecrated Shepherds wonder why Catholics are split in their beliefs and even Faith. Should the govt come into schools, churches, etc…. No! What do we do about criminals that decide to seek sanctuary, do we offer it and put more people at risk and in danger?
It’s the American tax payer who is the loser. We are paying for the upkeep of illegal migrants whether through the Catholic Church, who is getting paid by our government or the US Government itself. The question is, would the Catholic Church provide for the illegal migrant if they did not receive payment for their deeds?
As a CPA who routinely reviews those documents, I see an industry, not a charity.
And let me also opine, the amounts involved are “material”. Not only does money not talk, it screams bloody murder-and it is much like power-in that money tends to corrupt, and large sums tend to corrupt absolutely.
Please keep in mind that the phrase “non-profit” is a misnomer of the tax regulatory term “not for INDIVIDUAL profit”. It is not intended to mean that the enterprise doesn’t “turn a profit”, simply that those profits are not returned to legal stockholders. Of course, tax-exempts love to trade on public ignorance; fomenting the idea that they are indifferent to their bottom line-and I assure you any organization that fails to be run with prudence is nothing but a bankruptcy-in-training.
The great irony of the lack of formal stockholders is that the enterprise is run for the benefit of its paid employees, who often enjoy remuneration, security and employment demands that difficult to be found elsewhere-even as they often publicly act as though their employment is more morally noble that private sector employment.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t recall much coming from Dolan during the Biden administration and its assault on marriage, family and sex (both as an act and as a bilogical fact).
So in protesting, I think he has validated Vance’s contention, not disputed it.
Besides; with only about six weeks to go until St, Patrick’s Day, doesn’t the Cardinal need to make ready for the annual gay pride parade masquerading as the celebration of the French Saint?
While the Vatican threatens illegal aliens with dire punishments if they trespass:
“Vatican Promises Stiff Penalties for Illegal Aliens Crossing its Border”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/01/16/vatican-promises-stiff-penalties-for-illegal-aliens-crossing-its-border/
I need to leave comments about demographics. Your fears really surprise me and I find them disappointing. A half starved woman and little child at our borders seeking food and a chance to make a living are someone Jesus would assist. President Reagan knew this.
In order to secure our borders, how about instead of arresting a father of five children on his way to work. How about the Mexican Cartels, Neghetra Italian mafia, the US Mob families, the Hells Angels, Outlaws and other 1% Bijer criminal clubs. These are just a few of the organizations that cross are borders with impunity, engaging in drugs sex trafficking, money laundering, arms trafficking, tax evasion etc. These are areas that rock our nation to its core, and are a direct threat on the rule of law and our sovereignty. The Pope and the Catholic Church make mistakes they are led by imperfect humans. After stating that, the fact our Border Czar willingness to go into a church and bust somebody for their immigration status, and nothing else, stinks. We have a President who was busted for hiring illegal immigrants to tear down buildings then refusing to pay them ( public record). His advisor Mr Musk violated his student visa requirements and then used similar false information on his citizenship application. Now both of them want to increase H1B visas to have what I would term indentured servants, because they would be willing to work fourteen hours days, seven days a week, sleep on a factory floor, for the opportunity to be a part of this great country.
My previous comment (I hope it gets posted – I just made my annual donation to CWR!) contained one error. The fundraising expensing referred to came to $2.3M, not $18.9.
Whew, glad it was only $2.3 M to raise money from the government..?
Glad for the truth about the money Tony. But since you hit a nerve, be prepared for the following reply:
“Sorry, but your comment doesn’t make much sense and is quite cynical considering the work of _______, etc.”
Still your numbers are scandalous. Thank you, Tony. The salary levels speaks of the arrogance that one often sees in diocesan lay employees and a layer of bureaucracy that qualifies as a level of obstructive clericalism.
Well, it looks like the ice has been broken, and now a conversation can take place. For years the USCCB rhetoric on immigration has disappointed me, but now maybe they can explain themselves and lay it out there so we can all judge their judgements a little better.
Spare us, your grace, your mitre is a bit tight…
Did you condemn biden for joining the freemasons? His support for abortion? Mutilation of children?
Then suddenly when a good Catholic calls you out, you get your pink mafia cassock in a bunch…
Amen! Vance spoke the truth.
Mary Jane. Vance, who has NO governing experience. He seems to want to govern the actions of my Cardinal Tim Dolan. John Donald Vance has been MAGA stung. “Catholic convert?” Vance is complicit with his ignorance of prolific lying. He might refer to the Catechism 2478 III… Offenses Against Truth. To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way. Vance might get off with accepting “little white lies”. However, prolific lying infects the minds of our vulnerable youngsters. Offenses Against Truth are not white.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_three/section_two/chapter_two/article_8/iii_offenses_against_truth.html
Mr Morgan, with respect Church teachings against rash judgment, detraction, calumny and the like don’t just just apply to members of the GOP or President Trump’s VP.
We are all instructed to act that way.
morganD: Have you ever considered applying your sanctimonious attitude to your own words and motivations?
Catholic “Charities” has been involved for years in funding groups directly involved in the crushing of unborn babies with their disbursements and complaints to bishops have fallen on deaf ears.
Now, come after me with your vile accusations.
Do you know that Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Richmond actually drove a 14 year old Hispanic girl in their custody under one of these government contracts for an abortion? As her legal guardian the Catholic Charities head actually signed petmission for this abortion. I’d like Cardinal Dolan to know that the fruits of these contracts between the Church and the Feds has done great harm and committed grave, mortally perilous evils. And then, after the dirty deed was committed the bishops at the USCCB conspired to cover this up. If you don’t believe me, post your email address and I’ll send you a copy of the conspiratorial letter.
yes, I’ve heard these situations, esp over funding it in Africa, are one reason parishioner are not funding CSA, over worries some of it will go for those nasty purposes
Project much?
YOU have no governing experience.
Of course, if you can’t actually dispute the contention, you can offer an ad hominem attack under the veneer of rectitude.
Man, the political left folllows its playbook with fealty.
Excellent point, Fr j!
He does seem to be getting a tad sensitive.
Spot on agree 💯
Serious Crimes Committed by Illegal Aliens | FAIRus.org https://search.app/EnQi3NjLJrvnQA55A
Maybe instead of the Bishop Dolan being “disappointed” with Vance, Americans should be disappointed with the Bishop along with the whole USCCB for not apologizing to the family of Laken Riley and all the other many victimized families of illegal immigration due to their continuing support of the democratic parties open border policies despite being proven over and over to be deadly.
Dolan: Don’t get so high and mighty to those of us who are onto the game the bishops, the USCCB, CCHD, CLINIC, CRS and Catholic Chatities USA are playing. It IS all about the money. The Catholic Church has become an agent of the Federal government, and more particulary, the leftist Democrat Party.
ALL contracts (i.e. the money flow) between the Federal government and the Catholic Church MUST END NOW! I was once the Director of my diocese’s Catholic Charities and I’ve seen the corruption firsthand. We’re on to you corrupt bishops and not afraid to speak out.
And another thing, Cardinal Dolan: Don’t even dare to make the case that Catholics (or for that matter all Americans) don’t want immigration of the poor and others from South of our borders. That would be disingenuous. Americans WANT immigration. We just DO NOT WANT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Now get that straight.
It’s true that many US Citizens do want immigration & don’t care where immigrants come from as long as they come here lawfully. Otherwise our workforce will continue to be shrink & age out in the future since we aren’t having children at a replacement level.
But unfortunately there are also a number of people in the States, Catholic & otherwise, who do oppose immigration from some parts of Latin America. Haiti for instance.
Americans want cheap labor that works hard and doesn’t complain. These illegals keep our economy running hot, enabling you to live a good lifestyle. Hundreds of thousands of Americans get rich using illegal immigrant labor and these Americans welcome these illegals with open arms. The Bishops use government money to help these illegals with shelter, food, clothing toiletries, and spiritual guidance. Eternal salvation comes to Believers who obey the Teachings of Christ.
It’s not about money at all. It’s about helping people in need of food, shelter, clothing, toiletries, and spiritual guidance. Eternal salvation comes to believers who obey the teachings of Christ.
A very good sentiment. Do you have any concrete ideas of how you personally would sustain these acts of charity? For how long, for how many, and where exactly?
The Catholic Thing, Jan. 30, 2025.
Also related TCT article (from 2013).
I want to make something very clear to Cardinal Dolan: You are NOT my bishop. You may as well be speaking as the bishop of Outer Mongolia. However, Cardinal, Vice-President Vance IS my Vice-president. He was speaking as a government official giving his thoughts on contracts the Federal government has had in the past with the Catholic Church.
Cardinal Dolan, anything you say as a bishop should remain in your lane i.e. ecclesial matters. As a USA citizen you get to express your opinion about political matters but your opinion in this regard carries no more weight than anyone else’s. Stay in your own lane and, most especially, stay in your own diocese. Even the USCCB cannot speak for all the bishops in the USA; each bishop governs his own diocese.
This Bishop WAS asked to pray at the inauguration so perhaps it IS proper to comment on an issue taken up by THIS administration.
And, James Connor, he could not even utter the name of Jesus Christ once in his so-called prayer. I thought we’d been instructed to pray in Jesus’ name!
“I don’t really care, Margaret.”
– JD Vance
I stopped giving to CRS when I found out they had Sister Carol Keehan on their board of directors. To remind everyone, as head of the Catholic Health Association she played a crucial role in passing the Affordable Care Act (Obama Care) in 2010.
Well, looks like Cardinal Gladhand doesn’t like being told the truth!
“Eminence” Dolan and his USCCB colleagues are engaged in what people in the arts world call “poverty pimping.” And poverty pumping always involves “artistry.”
This term in the arts world is used to describe “artists” who run government funded programs to deliver “art” to “those less fortunate.” The primary beneficiaries of this arrangement are, as mentioned above by Tony W, the “head if the art studio” who gets himself or herself paid handsomely by the government bureaucrats running the the great society “arts” program, and the career bureaucrats paid to dole out the ill-gotten revenues to the povery pimping studio heads.
Why do artists call this grift “poverty pimping” you might ask? Because the actual artists that are sent to “deliver the arts” to the less fortunate are paid dirt-low wages by the poverty pimping studio heads who make their living doing this racket.
This is exactly what the poverty-pimping USCCB bureaucracy is doing with their participation in the outlaw illegal immigration industry. They are paying their USCCB staffs, and virtue signaling about their “preferential option for the poor” and their “concern for the most vulnerable.”
We can all see what’s going on, and thank you to Vuce President Vance for calling out the grifters of the USCCB.
At TCT this morning, Michael Pakulak takes the USCCB to task on its participation in the illegal immigration racketeering:
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/
That link you shared did not go to the article you gave us to read about the USCCB.
CC and the US govt is a well oiled machine. https://x.com/BenBergquam/status/1836159809407647836?t=a4VQ629WIcscC3hyLJ_0oA&s=19
Call me if and when the USCCB budgets as much for the pro-Life office as they do their immigration office…
Who can blame Cardinal Dolan for scolding an elected lay person for daring to speak out about how the Bishops spend the tax dollars of lay people! How shocked the Bishops must have been to be told by a politician to “look in the mirror”? How could such advice have failed to strike a nerve? We haven’t seen his Eminence this animated since he opened “Heavenly Bodies: Fashion and the Catholic Imagination” at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. The VP had better make nice, or he might not get an invitation to the Al Smith dinner when he runs for President. Elected officials should know how perilous it is to cross other politicians.
Too funny!!
The Bishops are using this tax money to help people in need. Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need?
how is killing an unborn directly or indirectly helping?
“Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need?” Yes.
Didn’t Christ instruct his Followers to help people in need avoid the border laws of a country like the Vatican? No.
This episode might have a happy ending. The Cardinal might get 5 more years, Vance might get the Republican nomination for President, and both might be sitting next to each other in a few years at the Al Smith dinner laughing like only politicians can. Cardinal Dolan might even get to pray at the Inauguration of President Vance.
Wow! The bishops find their voice. You can kill all the babies you want to but don’t touch our very lucrative income source. They join with the elites in favor of illegals and against their flocks. Interesting! We’ll see more of this as our country returns to common sense.
The remarks by Mr. Vance were true. This is why “Catholic Charities” are being defunded. The BILLION dollar pipeline is being turned off. I approve. Government handouts are not the best means for true charity. Too many illegals, too much sex and drug trafficking has been facilitated by these agencies. It needs to stop.
Why are the bishops so eager to support illegal immigration? Why can they not tell would be illegals simply to “obey the law?” Are they spiritual leaders or Democratic activists?
As for the money – It is high time that Lay people, people in the pew, donors, had full and truthful info on exactly where the money is going. The awful abuse crisis never would have become so widespread for so long if Lay people knew their church donations were going to pay hush money to victims, to cover up the sins of clergy who should have been in jail, to pay $$$$$$ to attorneys to arrange the cover up, etc. The people would have demanded a stop to this sleazy sordid clerical behavior at once.
The Bishops are helping people in need. What are you doing to help people in need?
He is helping people who are breaking the law. That makes him an accomplice.
That link you shared did not go to the article you gave us to read about the USCCB.
Kudos to Cardinal Dolan for standing up against Vice President Vance on this issue. The Church must push back aggressively about our moral stance on all issues. This administration is ruthlessly carrying out its agenda in unprecedented ways and trying to silence and eliminate opposition. This is not the way we do things in this country and we must push back. I also appreciate the Cardinal’s public recognition of Vance’s stance on family life and education. We must also give due credit when due. This administration does stand for many good things and they deserve our support and recognition. We must pray for all our leaders.
No
“This administration is ruthlessly carrying out its agenda in unprecedented ways and trying to silence and eliminate opposition.”
A falsehood tinged with a pretense of morality is still a falsehood. You didn’t seem to have an issue when B. Hussein Obama, your progressive darling, deported over 3 million people. And based on our recent history, the progressive Democrats you support have been far more aggressive in trying to silence opposition and shut down discussion. Your viewpoints might be more fitting for a more left-leaning site.
you can’t have a free for all in a welfare country or you’ll go broke
Two conflicting quotes and three afterthoughts:
FIRST, we read from Cardinal Dolan: “You want to come look at our audits, which are scrupulously done? You think we make money caring for the immigrants? We’re losing it hand over fist … we’re not in a money-making business.”
SECOND, but we also read (article): “In 2023, the latest year for which figures are available, the USCCB spent nearly $131 million on migration and refugee services, with nearly $130 million of that cost being covered by government grants, primarily from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the U.S. Department of State.”
THIRD, yours truly would like to see a more complete account of apples and oranges accounting. Both assertions might be true. But, about a complete set of books, what does it also mean to participate in a porous border policy (?)—with, for example, over 8,000 deaths on the desert (etc.) among the attracted illegal immigrants, and at least 400,000 youth subject to sex trafficking, and well over 100 rural hospitals closed over unpaid overloads.
FOURTH, given all of the “pull” factors here alongside all the “push” factors there in failed nation-states, we are surely in a new era where the Catholic Social Teaching requires a new class of interpreters of the caliber of St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
While Dolan blundered, in another matter, by welcoming the LGBTQ demographic (not a community) into New York’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade, it’s probably still inaccurate to tar him and all the bishops with the same brush more deserved by McElroy, Cupich, Tobin (New Jersey) & Co.
FIFTH, about political, economic and societal incoherence, the great prophet Honore de Balzac got it just about right when he said “bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies.”
And, the eminent and early 20th-century sociologist Max Weber foresaw the whole disjointed modern thing in his tome “Bureaucracy.” Staring into the coming world, he landed himself for a few years in an asylum able to read only bird books and books on art. Impenitently committed to the Enlightenment, said he still of our coming rationalization and bureaucratization: “Not summer’s bloom lies ahead of us, but rather a polar night of icy darkness and hardness.”
WHAT A GREAT TIME for prayer, and for a “listening” that is less polarized, technocracized, politicized, algorithmized–and even apostasized!
But, surely AI must be the answer! In a de-sacralized universe, digitally layer the bureaucracies together!
Peter, very well said!
Cardinal Dolan, as Chair of the Near East Welfare Association (NEWA), has done much good work in advocacy for the persecuted and neglected in the Holy Land. Perhaps it would be well for his critics to see how much they have contributed to the good of others. It’s much easier to criticize than to praise.
Br. Jaques, are you in line for a promotion?
“You’re being such a meanie!” What a pathetic but typical response from a progressive. No substance, no substantive arguments, no nuanced discussion, just name calling. This from the same cardinal who has provided cover for James Martin for how many decades? Sorry cardinal, you’re going to have to do better than that if you expect people to take you seriously. Most of us tuned you out a long time ago.
Dolan doesn’t get that we see the deal. The fact the churches are getting anything from taxpayers is shameful. They take from both taxpayers AND parishioners! That’s some good gig!
yes, our parish took a small PP loan and one of the council members remarked as to whether it was even moral to do so
Vice-President Vance’s remarks were painfully on target. Indeed, it could be thought that they were offered too kindly.
The facade of naive sentimentalism worn by the USCCB is quite transparent. It unintentionally provides cover to criminal operations, now designated terrorist organizations, which exploit men, women and children in terrifying financial and physical ways, ending often in the worst abuse, torture and murder. It difficult to believe our bishops are unaware of these gross realities.
The episcopate’s concern for justice had best take into account as well justice for disadvantaged citizens of the United States, not only illegal immigrants whose situation is best addressed in their native lands.
Given their inadequate and unrealistic response to the nature of illegal migration one can only conclude this issue is above the competency of our bishops. Obviously they are not up to confronting the injustice presently rife within the Church. Of course the consequences for addressing that mess are far more threatening, while barking at the new administration allows them the moral high horse.
Woke be the flavor of the day.
We should applaud the bishops wherever they are in the world for their corporal works of mercy.
The Martha dimension.
As for the spiritual works, could the bishops, the clergy do better?
And so many do.
Sit at the feet of Christ as did Mary, correct and convert sinners, instruct the ignorant, counsel the doubtful, bear wrongs patiently .
The former course will be applauded by the zeitgeist and rightly so.
The latter course of spiritual mercy will take enormous courage.
The zeitgeist will not be pleased.
Invasion is not the equivalent of a “migration.”
I did not appreciate the Cardinal’s back-handing of Vance. Dolan is my Cardinal. If this is his example of leadership, mark me unimpressed, if not disgusted. It is my understanding that Catholic Charities has facilities in MEXICO where they counsel illegals on EXACTLY what to say and do in order to remain in the US and get financial support once they get there. You know, all the free stuff for which US taxpayers foot the bill. If this is not against US law, it should be. For now, lets say it is simply immoral and smarmy. There are literally billions of poor people in other parts of the world. The reality is we CANNOT afford to take them all in here. The 20 million illegals we are presently stuck with has come close to bankrupting several blue American cities. We cannot muster enough resources to care for our OWN poor properly. Maybe Catholic Charities needs to tell the leaders of OTHER nations that they should be caring for their own poor?? My guess is they will not, lest they be expelled from the country, jailed, or worse. Evidently that makes truthful US politicians a free target for Dolan. Dolan needs to remember that his Catholic parishioners here are AMERICANS too. I suggest it would be unwise of him to force us to make a choice between the two. A lot of church pews are empty already.
In the end, our Catholic Church leaders can provide all the assistance they want to those in our country illegally. One caveat, however, the Catholic Church should USE ITS OWN MONEY and not taxpayer dollars to do so. All those contracts between the Federal Government and the Catholic Church need to end NOW. I do not want my Churcĥ to be an extension ofcsecular government.
“I was really disappointed with what he said.”
Now do Fr. James Martin.
“The USCCB has not been a good partner in commonsense immigration enforcement that the American people voted for, and I hope, again, as a devout Catholic, that they’ll do better.”
Diplomatic and true.
So the Church has been helping people in need by providing a place to sleep a meal to eat, providing clothing, toiletries, a place to worship and words of encouragement. This is what Christ instructed the Church to do. Eternal salvation comes to those people obey the teachings of Christ.
Gerald: And helping them to violate Federal law. Sorry, not in my Church.
Christ did not call his people to help those who are breaking the law. That makes us accomplices to their crimes.
Give unto Ceaser…
VP Vance was fairly spot on
The crooked Cardinal doth protest too much. And not a word against the Biden Administration’s mad-dog pursuit of abortion ‘rights’.
Above comment corrected [ommitted incorrect line about “Obama 2008 baseball caps” – they were present, but before Dolan arrived in NYC; added, “nay, three”]. Hopefully you’ll approve this one and not the first, if you approve any of them:
Two things I know about Timothy Dolan, nay three:
1. He arrived in NYC (from Milwaukee) beaming before the cameras about how many hot dogs he ate and how he was a “Yankees fan.” Sorry. Never trusted him from that moment on. Presumably he was a Brewers fan the day before.
2. His position on abortion was to “keep it safe, legal and rare.” Lots can be said about that, but the first thing one notices is that it’s a well-worn politician’s talking-point. Concluded long ago that he is a politican.
3. Then came the travesty of American governance known as “Obamacare.” Then-Archbishop Dolan comandeered column-inches in NYC parish bulletins to proclaim the disingenuous if not outright claim that “the Church has been promoting nationalized healthcare for over a hundred years,” and thereby passive-aggressivewly pushing Catholics to support it. Of course, his claim was thereafter debunked and the obfuscations clarified by Bishp Nickless in a profound essay on the nature of subsidiarity. Then I had to conclude that he’s a leftist hack.
And then they made him a Cardinal.
Shook his hand at a service once — brilliantly performed, of course. Behind that Hollywood smile is gaze as cold and dead as ice. But that’s just my opinion.
May God save Cdl. Dolan, all the Bishops, and His Church.
That’s why we probably need to allow married men into the priesthood.
The ends do not always justify the means.
I appreciate the insights offered in the article regarding Cardinal Dolan’s remarks on the intersection of bishops and immigration policies. It’s quite refreshing to see a clear stance on such a complex and often polarizing topic. To expand on this discussion, it’s worth noting that the role of the Church in immigration issues isn’t new. Historically, religious institutions have acted as advocates for marginalized communities, often stepping in where governments fall short. For instance, organizations like Catholic Charities don’t just provide immediate relief but also engage in systemic advocacy to influence immigration policies. This holistic approach can foster more comprehensive solutions that reflect the Church’s values of compassion and dignity. Additionally, the theological aspect of this issue can’t be overlooked. Many argue that the Church’s teachings emphasize the inherent dignity of all individuals, regardless of their immigration status. This raises meaningful questions about how faith leaders can balance doctrinal convictions with public policy advocacy. As we consider these dynamics, I’m curious about how legal measures, such as the “writ of mandamus,” could play a role in addressing immigration cases where timely action is needed from authorities. How might faith leaders utilize such legal tools to further their advocacy for vulnerable immigrant communities?