Aboard the papal plane, May 7, 2019 / 04:30 pm (CNA).- Please read below for CNA’s full transcript of the pope’s May 7 in-flight press conference from Skopje, North Macedonia to Rome:
Alessandro Gisotti:
Good evening Holy Father, thank you after such intense days for being here to share a thought about this journey that was so intense and so beautiful. A short trip, inevitably a short press conference, I will not add words other than these: Holy Father you have already walked in the footsteps of Mother Teresa, a great witness of Christian love, and we have all been struck today, as you know it, by the death of Jean Vanier, another friend, brother of the least of these, another great witness. Here, before the questions I wanted to ask if you wanted to share a thought about Jean Vanier.
Pope Francis:
Yes, I knew of the illness of Jean Vanier. His sister, Geneviève Jeanningros, informed me on a regular basis. One week ago, I called him on the phone, he listened to me, but could hardly speak. I would like to express my gratitude for this testimony. He was a man who knew how to read the Christian existence from the mystery of death on the cross of illness, from the mystery of those who are despised and rejected in the world. He worked, not only for the least of these, but also for those who before birth face the possibility of being sentenced to death. He spent his life like this. I am simply thankful to him and thankful to God for giving us this man with a great witness.
Gisotti:
Thank you, Holy Father, the first question will be from Biljana Zherevska of TV Macedonia.
Biljana Zherevska, MRT: [In English] Your Holiness, it is a great pleasure to have you in our country. We feel honored by your visit. What is interesting for us is to hear from you what is your greatest impression from the two countries, what touched you the most? The persons, objects, atmosphere. What will you remember of these two countries when you go [back] to the Holy See?
Pope Francis: They are two totally diverse nations. Bulgaria is a nation of a tradition from centuries ago. Macedonia, on the other hand, has a tradition from centuries, but not as a country: as a people, that ultimately rose to form as a nation… It is a beautiful fight! For us Christians Macedonia is a symbol of the entrance of Christianity in the East. Christianity entered in the East through you all.. those Macedonians that appeared to Paul in a dream: “come to us, come to us.” He was leaving for Asia, it is a mystery that call… And the Macedonian people are proud of this, they do not lose the opportunity to say that Christianity entered Europe through us, through our door, because Paul was called by a Macedonian.
Bulgaria has had to fight so much for its identity as a nation. The mere fact that in the 1800s, I believe 1823, more or less, 200,000 Russian soldiers died to regain independence from the hands of the Turks … we think of what 200,000 means. So much struggle for independence, so much blood, so much mystique to find consolidation of identity.
Macedonia had the identity and now it has come to consolidate it as a people, with small, big problems, like its name, and this we all know. Both have Christian, Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim communities. The percentage of Orthodox is very strong in both with a small amount of Muslims and even fewer Catholics, in Macedonia more so than Bulgaria. A thing I saw in both nations is the good relationship between the different faiths. In Bulgaria we saw it in the prayer for peace. This is a normal and beautiful thing for Bulgarians, because they have a good relationship, each person has the right to express his own religion and has the right to be respected. This touched me. Then the dialogue with Patriarch Neophyte was a beauty… he is a man of God, a great man of God. In Macedonia I was struck by a phrase the president told me: “Here there is not religious tolerance, there is respect.” They have respect. In a world like this respect is missed very much. Respect for human rights, we miss respect for so many things, respect for children, for the elderly, that the mystique of a country would be respect is striking. I do not know if I answered more or less briefly.
Gisotti:
Holy Father, the next question will be asked by Peter Nanev from Bulgarian television.
Peter Nanev, BTV: Good evening. Peter Nanev, BTV Bulgaria. [In English] It is more of a personal question, as Your Holiness, you’re like a human being, from where do you find strength in your body, in your spirit in cases when you have to give even more strength for a heavily sick child?
Pope Francis: First of all I would like to tell you that I do not go to the witch… [laughs]. I do not know. I do not know, really. It is a gift from the Lord. When I am in a country, I forget everything, but not because I want to forget it, I forget it, and I am only there. And then this gives me perseverance, I don’t know, but [when] I am on the trip I am not tired! Then I am tired! After! But where do I take the strength from? I believe that the Lord gives it to me, there is no explanation. I ask the Lord to be faithful, to serve him in this work of travels, that the trip will not be tourism. I ask. All is his grace. Nothing else comes to me to say. But then I do not do so much work, huh? Thank you.
Gisotti:
He will now address a question. We remain in Eastern Europe, Silvije Tomasevic of Croatian press and television, Vecernij List.
Silvije Tomasevic, Vecernij List: The national Orthodox Churches are not always in agreement among them, for example, they have not recognized the Macedonian Church. But when they have to criticise the Catholic Church they are always in unison, for example the Serbian Church does not want Cardinal Stepinac to be canonized. Your comment on this situation?
Pope Francis: In general, the relationships are good, they are good and there is good will. I can tell you sincerely that I have met men of God among the patriarchs. Neophyte is a man of God, and then him that I carry in my heart, a favorite, Ilia II of Georgia is a man of God, that has been good to me, Bartholomew is a man of God, Kirill is a man of God. They are great patriarchs that give witness. You can tell me. But everyone, we have defects. Everyone. But in the patriarchs I have found brothers and some… I do not want to exaggerate, but I would like to say the word ‘saints’ and this is important.
Then there are historic things between our Churches, some old things, for example today the president was saying to me that the Eastern schism began here in Macedonia.
Now the pope comes for the first time, to mend the schism I do not know, but to say we are brothers, because we cannot adore the Holy Trinity without hands united as brothers. This is not only my conviction, also the patriarchs’, everyone.
Then there is a historic world… you are Croatian? It was seeming to me I sensed the aroma of Croatia. The canonization of Stepinac is a historic case. He is a virtuous man for this Church, which has proclaimed him Blessed, you can pray [through his intercession]. But at a certain moment of the canonization process there are unclear points, historic points, and I should sign the canonization, it is my responsibility, I prayed, I reflected, I asked advice, and I saw that I should ask Irenej, a great patriarch, for help. We made a historic commission together and we worked together, and both Irenej and I are interested in the truth. Who is helped by a declaration of sanctity if the truth is not clear? We know that [Stepinac] was a good man, but to make this step I looked for the help of Irenej and they are studying. First of all the commission was set up and gave its opinion. They are studying other sources, deepening some points so that the truth is clear. I am not afraid of the truth, I am not afraid. I am afraid of the judgment of God.
Gisotti: There is time for another question. Joshua McElwee.
Josh McElwee, National Catholic Reporter: Thank you so much, Holy Father. In Bulgaria you visited an Orthodox community that has continued a long tradition of ordaining women deacons. In a few days you will meet with the International Union of Superiors General*, that three years ago requested a commision for women deacons. Can you tell us something you have learned from the report of the commission on the ministry of women in the early years of the Church? Have you made some decision?
Pope Francis: I did not hear the first part of your question.
McElwee: [repeats a part of the question.]
Pope Francis: The commission was made, it worked for almost two years. They were all different, all toads from different wells, all thinking differently, but they worked together and were in agreement until a certain point. But each of them then has her own view that does not agree with that of the others. And there they stopped as a commission and each is studying [how] to go forward.
For the female diaconate, there is a way to imagine it with a different view from the male diaconate. For example, the formulas of female deacon ordination found until now, according to the commission, are not the same for the ordination of a male deacon and are more similar to what today would be the abbatial blessing of an abbess. This is the answer of some of them. I’m speaking a little from the ear, from memory.
Others say that it is a female deacon formula, but they argue that it is not clear. There were female deacons, but was it a sacramental ordination or not? And that is discussed, it is not clear. That they helped in liturgy, in Baptisms by immersion, when the woman was baptized the deaconesses helped, also for [unclear] the woman’s body. Then a document came out where diaconesses were called by the bishop when there was a matrimonial argument for the dissolution of the marriage or divorce or separation. When the woman accused her husband of beating her and the bishop called the deaconesses to look at the woman’s body for the bruises and so they testified in the judgment. These are the things I remember.
But fundamentally, there is no certainty that it was an ordination with the same form, in the same purpose as male ordination. Some say there is doubt, let’s go ahead and study. I am not afraid of studying, but up to this moment it does not proceed.
Then it is curious that where there were deaconesses it was almost always a geographic zone, especially in Syria. And then in another part, it does not touch or nothing. All these things I received from the commission. Each one continues to study, and [they have] done a good job, because up to a certain point [they were] in agreement. And this can be an impetus to go ahead and study and give a definitive answer, yes or no, according to the characteristics of that time.
An interesting thing. Some theologians of a few years ago, 30 years ago for example, said that there were no deaconesses because women were in the background in the Church, not only in the Church. Always women… But it is a curious thing: in that period there were so many pagan priestesses, the female priesthood in pagan cults was ordinary in that day. As it is understood as a female priesthood, a pagan priesthood in women, it was not done in Christianity. This is being studied also. They have arrived at a point, now each of the members is studying according to her theory. This is good. Varietas delectat.
Gisotti: Holy Father, thank you for your availability. The press conference finishes here, at this point, because in a little while they will serve the dinner. And so, thank you to you all. Especially during this trip when we woke up at night to move [from place to place].
Pope Francis: I would like to say one thing about the trip: Something I found much consolation in and which has touched me profoundly during the trip. Two extreme experiences. The experience with the poor today here in Macedonia at the Mother Teresa Memorial. There were so many poor people, but to see the meekness of those sisters: they were caring for the poor without paternalism, but as children. But a meekness, the ability to caress the poor, the tenderness of these sisters. Today, we are used to insulting each other. One politician insults the other, one neighbor insults the other, even in families they insult each other. I cannot say that it is a culture of insult, but the insult is a weapon in the hand, even to speak ill of others, slander, defamation, and to see these sisters that care for every person as Jesus. It hit me, a good young man approached and the superior told me, ‘this is a good boy’ and caressed him and she said it with the tenderness of a mom and made me feel the Church a mother. It is one of the most beautiful things to feel the maternity of the Church. Today I felt it there.
I thank Macedonia for having this [inaudible]. Another extreme experience was the First Communion in Bulgaria. I was moved because my memory went back to October 8, 1944, to my First Communion, when they sang [the hymn] ‘O santo altare custodito dagli angeli’ (who here remembers it?), I saw those children that open themselves to life with a sacramental decision. The Church guards the children, they are limited, they have to grow, I am promised, and I lived it very strongly, I felt in that moment those 249 children were the future of the Church, they were the future of Bulgaria. These are two things that I lived with much intensity I wanted to communicate. Thank you very much, pray for me. I do not want to leave without speaking about these days, the centenary of trips. They are roses from Bulgaria, a small thought to mark the 100th trip.
They tell us that now there will be whiskey.
[…]
Well, we know he’s already managed to destroy the relationship with the Eastern Churches as they have cut off discussions over his gay blessings essay.If he wants to continue to damage the church, keep pushing the female deacon thing, which nobody wants but the most radical feminists. Its more than clear the action of female deacons and “priests” didn’t help the Protestant churches, whose attendance is far worse than ours.
So sick and tired of this Synodal garbage. The next Pope needs to issue a bull declaring there will be no more Synods ever again. Period.
The next Pope will be a Modernist far worse than Francis. He has already packed the Curia with Modernists and all the Cardinals are Modernists.
At this early date, might we respectfully propose ten questions on the ten listed themes? Especially since time pressures have forced the partial replacement of the synod itself by study groups. So, some early questions:
1. About the East, how to avoid quarantining of the recently estranged Eastern Orthodox Church, like all of the Church in Africa, as just another culturally defective “special case;”
2. About the “cry of the poor” as not excluding those who are impoverished spiritually and culturally (as noted in the less exclusionary teaching of Centesimus Annus, n. 57);
3. In the digital environment, yes!, the preservation of analogue reality over a Nominalist digital cosmos, and even AI; and affirmation in season and out of season of the “transcendent dignity of [each] human person,” and of the “real” Vatican Council in its Documents over the “virtual” council as is still peddled by clones of Hans Kung;
4. A “missionary perspective” which, however, clearly does not marginalize (a new “periphery”!) the received and missionary Deposit of Faith with digital sociology;
5. Attention to “ministerial forms” in a way that now does not mutilate the unity of sacramental ordination, as has been pioneered with redefined ministerial “blessings” (Fiducia Supplicans) and such that the diaconate is not rendered as both a sacrament and not-a-sacrament and as a stepping stone (“walking together”) toward an Anglicanized female priestesshoody;
6. About “ecclesial organizations,” wording that does not dilute the individual and personal accountability of each Successor of the Apostles, versus the leveling administrative convenience of conferences of bishops, even if synodally “continental”—a matter already settled and clarified scripturally and in Apostolos Suos (May 21, 1998);
7. On the selection, judicial role and meaning of ad limina visits for bishops, perhaps guidance on how better to transcend the progressive intrusion of the zeitgeist into the particular Churches—as less polyhedral than equally rooted in the incarnate Jesus Christ, “the same yesterday, today, and forever;”
8. On papal representatives in a missionary synodal perspective, surely a functional role, still, for the Dicastery on the Doctrine of the Faith—as the Magisterium now preserves both faith and explicitly (!) morals (the natural law about which the Church is neither the “author” nor the “arbiter,” Veritatis Splendor, n. 95).
9. Theological criteria (etc.) for first distinguishing what is only controverted (!) from what else might be actually controversial,” and certainly without schizophrenic separation of the pastoral from the doctrinal—as earlier Nestorianism, likewise, tried to split the unity of Jesus Christ in twain;
10.Handling of ecumenical journey and ecclesial practices which, nevertheless, does not in practice redefine the Eucharistic and Mystical Body of Christ as a contour-free, congregational mosaic—”walking together” out of step with the “hierarchical communion” of the perennial Church and Second Vatican Council (Lumen Gentium); and where, in the forwardist future, wide-screen congregational “synods” might even pretend to replace (“backwardist”?) internally coherenet ecumenical councils.
From the back bleachers, just some self-evident questions…
Nine appears the key affecting the remainder, “Theological criteria and synodal methodologies for shared discernment of controversial doctrinal, pastoral, and ethical issues”. For example, what are synodal methodologies for shared discernment? Is it to proofread moral doctrine?
Discernment in so wide a context would pertain to common sense perception of ethical issues. Although it’s not required to call a universal Synod to address what’s practical knowledge that’s usually evaluated in the field. The intent on this scale of inquiry would more likely be a consensus on changes of doctrine. Whether such changes were to be formally pronounced by the Magisterium is troublesome and unlikely. Intent of change to doctrine would occur by less dramatic means, media proliferation of suggestions. Innovations wrapped in semi authentic gloss.
By the age of four, a child learns that wrongdoing necessitates finding ways to lie to Mommy and Daddy and to his very own self. It is amazing that after two thousand years of moral reflection by scholars and saints, dedicated to the Gospels, a gathering of those who currently represent this heritage can’t figure out that morality becomes complicated only when you’re trying to avoid it.
Wow, a whole lot of new entries for the Catholic Dictionary I’ve been working on for eleven years. Well, its a dictionary with a sub-title for Sorta-Catholic Catholics.
A classic nailing it Edward. Naughty children who’ve grown up to be naughty men.
How difficult for man to become more Christlike. Yet, how easy for man to become earthly and irreverent!
Thank you for proclaiming Jesus Christ and remaining steadfast.
How difficult for man to become more Christlike. Yet, how easy for man to become earthly and irreverent! This applies especially to Pope Francis.
Honestly, I am restraining from contributing as ultimately, some bishops will accept the worked-through conclusions at the end and some will not. Even at this time Pope Francis is hailing these groupings as “one of the fruits of the Synod process launched on 9 October 2021.” I suppose he is breaking it into study groups in order to meet the October deadline – is what he means? This so-called process is attempting to produce itself into a work of the Holy Spirit; while yet already demonstrating unnatural forcing of acceptance and planting synthetic circularity.
It is impossible for the groups to correct this!
‘ In the spirit of the Chirograph signed by me on 16 February, it is the task of the General Secretariat of the Synod, by joint agreement with the competent Dicasteries of the Roman Curia, to constitute these Groups, calling Pastors and Experts from all Continents to take part in them, and taking into consideration not only existing studies, but also the most relevant current experiences in the People of God gathered in the local Churches. It is important that the aforementioned Study Groups work according to an authentically synodal method, of which I ask you to be the guarantor.
This will enable the Assembly, in its Second Session, to focus more easily on the general theme that I assigned to it at the time, and which can now be summarized in the question: “How to be a synodal Church in mission?”. ‘
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2024/03/14/240314f.html
I wrote synthetic circularity above, without knowing that Cardinal Grech had already been confessing “circularity” and not imagining anyone would even use that language.
Subsequently to my writing I found out about this aspect of Grech and the so-called Synod, from Beaulieu’s post MARCH 27, 2024 AT 3:07 PM, CWR’s Extra! Extra! March 27.
It shows to me that they have “no shame” about what they’re doing (Grech et al). Passing it off and passing it on as a sincerity -not like our faith!
In the VATICAN.VA link Grech is calling on the monachists to be the “deep breath of prayer”. Timothy Radcliffe and Gregory Polan in the videos select other cues.
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2021-08/grech-monastic-contemplative-listening-conversion-communion.html
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2024/03/27/extra-extra-news-and-views-for-wednesday-march-27-2024/
Polan’s views reflect Sr. Gabriela’s perspective or angle on “synod”. This brings us right back to various discussions at CWR the past 3 years or so.
I note again, the “synod” commentators are saying different things. I note also, my Archbishop attended and you don’t know a) what he said there and b) what he is saying here, after his return. Myself, I don’t know a) either, like you.
See Sr.’s comments in the CWR links. And mine in tandems.
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2023/09/22/the-sacramental-nature-of-authority-and-the-limits-of-synodality/
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2022/05/09/synodality-bureaucratic-malaise-and-the-problem-of-power/
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2022/07/04/embracing-the-spirit-of-charity-in-a-post-dobbs-culture/
What safeguards and precautions are there to stop the place being turned into a “bargain basement” and to catch out or spot the miscreants?
‘ In the latest twist to a mounting privacy scandal in Italy, a Vatican prosecutor has announced opening an investigation to determine whether confidential information was used illicitly to influence the recent “trial of the century” on financial crime, which ended with the first-ever conviction of a cardinal by a Vatican civil court.
“As soon as I discovered, from articles in the press, the existence of electronic stalking regarding the Holy See, I opened a file, because I believe that someone followed our investigations from the outside,” said Alessandro Diddi, a veteran Italian lawyer who serves as the Vatican’s Promoter of Justice.
…..
Investigators say they’ve identified at least 800 suspicious searches undertaken by Striano related to 165 different individuals, although in recent comments to the Italian press Striano claimed the actual number of database searches he performed could reach as high as 40,000.
Among other things, investigators are seeking to understand if Striano and anti-mafia prosecutor Antonio Laudati, who’s also been named in the investigation, conducted these searches on behalf of other parties who were seeking to influence the outcome of political or legal procedures through the use of well-timed leaks. ‘
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2024/03/vatican-opens-probe-on-trial-of-the-century-amid-widening-italian-privacy-scandal
Proprietor owners of surveillance equipment co-operate with whomsoever they choose not merely with those with whom they enter into contract.
They are many proprietor owners and also proprietor co-owners. Equipment may be jointly developed or it may be leased out to an operator to hide the developer.
The Hong Kong invasion of privacy and invasion of confession laws, will mean that you may not interfere with wiretapping or obstruct the results.
This Hong Kong situation infuses a terrible flaw into the Holy See-China Provisional Agreement placing the secular authority inside the so-called internal forum.
Holy See will be unable to tell where things really are or what is or is not upheld.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hong-kong-passes-national-security-law-forcing-priests-to-break-seal-of-confession/
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2024/03/14/pope-tells-priests-dont-ask-too-much-during-confession/
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2024/03/20/synodal-news-and-a-papal-saga/
The assertion of “no risk” from the new Hong Kong law is both foolhardy and deceitful. Even without a law there can be problems and you are supposed to take measures to deflect and disarm them. With the law, down to ad hoc eavesdroppers will be protected but also be duly employable officially; and the people in charge of them won’t necessarily divulge the state of affairs. You won’t even be able to tell if the patriotic bishop is less trustworthy from another bishop -or more.
You can’t prepare your flock to defend what is coming at them by misrepresenting it. Neither can you undress unjust law by saying “Oh it’s all good.”
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-asia/2024/03/hong-kong-diocese-says-no-risk-to-confession-with-security-law
Some advices about wisdom from 2013 –
‘ “The Kingdom of God is among us: do not seek strange things, do not seek novelties with this worldly curiosity. …” ‘
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2013/11/14/pope-francis-do-not-seek-novelties-with-this-worldly-curiosity/
These “Catholic idealists” helping deface the sacraments and sacramentals are helping deface everything else as well including a) clarity and right order (mercy and justice) in the secular and b) legitimate private initiative. Pope Francis seems unable to identify them as being under the spell of ideology. As the stakes go higher and things escalate he seems to become more and more UNWILLING TO ADMIT THAT, i.e., they fit with his own vision of things presented in little steps meant to demonstrate non-exclusion and other formulae in the “mission”.
A progression and a psychology that are not unfamiliar.
So far I’ve contributed 5 points on this and I am aiming to achieve a full slate of 10 of them to match with the Papal output and keep a pace with Mr. Beaulieu. To be frank I am praying that Pope Francis can handle the effectsas well as some others!
So this is the 6th. Cardinal Ambongo and my Archbishop present dualistic enigmas!
Ambongo is saying there could have been a way to “accept” FS. He was surprised at how it jumped out of the woodwork when he would have expected it to happen differently given the way things were going through October 2023. He has resisted it on the basis that it couldn’t fit with the culture; and the Pope endorses this.
He also insists it is a western imperialism.
I suspect a level of consultation was already made -at least shortly after the publication. But it is possible they conferred immediately prior! How shall we ever discover it?
Ambongo’s rationale and collaboration square with Evangelii Gaudium, unity prevails over conflict. But not with EG’s the whole is greater than the part.
But if he is against homosexualism in principle as he should be, where he shrewdly is relying on the papal politics to his advantage – how are we to know now?
Having publicly admitted it’s a culture business, what is he really preaching?
On the other hand my Archbishop, whom I believe to be a papal darling and a favourite for the succession, has been pushing homosexualism here at home WHERE IT IS AGAINST THE CULTURE AND THE RELIGIONS! In such wise defying all of EG’s 4 maxims! Ambongo insists he doesn’t want to cause confusion in the culture but that is exactly what my Archbishop has imposed, forcing something just not there.
He is doing this in a circle of priests that never complain about anything as would be when people are swearing by the subsisting peace. The very same blank about Bergoglio that Rome had before his election (Benedict XVI – “My authority ends at the door”), covers him as well; except now Rome is Bergoglio and the C9 etc. including Ambongo.
My Archbishop runs like a dark horse in a dark race with those who know him.
There is no DIRECT mention of the 300 priests in the 10 points or as one of the study groups or as a theological consideration. Presumably it has something to do with “the participation of all and the authority of some”?
The 10 points do seem to be focusing in on bishops.
From my own “subsidiary” experience, could it be that there is a vision “from the Holy Spirit” for intensifying “local tradition” over “universal” while at the same time defining “universal” more upon the terms of “synodal”?
So “the Holy Spirit will be guiding” these priests in “trained harmony”?
Or, Bishops will receive some “Holy Spirit formation in guiding priests”?
And in the meantime ahead of these developments the German malformation has been allocated some stable ground on which they can legitimately encounter the Holy Spirit through the rest of the proceedings?
“This encounter will have the aim of listening to and valuing the experience parish priests live in their respective local Churches, and to offer them an opportunity to experience the dynamism of synodal work at a universal level,” the Vatican announcement states.
CRUX says the 300 priests are “boots on the ground” and the Germans got “reigned in” by “the Vatican in keeping with Canon Law”.
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2024/03/ahead-of-synod-meeting-priests-have-boots-on-the-ground-of-church
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2024/03/vatican-reigns-in-german-bishops-amid-dispute-over-national-reforms
The period of the Arian Crisis was a confluence a number of temptations to digression, anathema and dissipation: Paganists, Donatists, Pelagius, Origen and Arius and a little later Nestorius. In the Arian Crisis the secular authority would level exile sentences from bishops and impose exiles and decisions themselves.
Eusebius of Samosata, opponent of Arianism, refused to yield up records to the Arian Emperor Constantius II. When Eusebius offered instead both hands for amputation the Emperor withdrew.
Eusebius of Vercelli refused to join in the condemnation of Athanasius at the Milan council and was exiled by the same Constantius. This council was convoked at the request of the Pope with the aim of restoring Athanasius’ status. In one place of exile, Thebald, Upper Egypt, Eusebius was persecuted, harrassed and dragged through the streets.
The Milan Bishop’s name was Lucifer of Cagliari who also got exiled! Following the death of Constantius, Julian the Apostate gained the throne and he was responsible for restoring both men.
Bishop Meletius of Antioch opposed the Arians but suffered revolt within his See through intrigues from the Arian Eusebius of Caesarea; leading to Melitus being deposed and banished. This See was then thrown into turmoil.
That Eusebius of Caesarea started out with the Arians; turned out not to be truly Arian; supported pro-Arian factions; then formulated is own creed avoiding condemnation for Arianism but expressing his difficulty with homoousios. His faithsul disciple was Eusebius of Emesa whom St. Jerome describes as “standard bearer of the Arian faction” and a “rhetorical exhibionist”.
Eusebius of Nicomedia was the contemporary of Eusebius of Caesarea and close associate. He was very forceful in the expulsion of Athanasius. Later his behaviours matched that of Eusebius of Caesarea, in parallel denying the homoousios then later siging on with it but holding that Arius never held the views imputed to him. He led the resurgence in post-Nicene aggressive Arianism.
Of Constantine the Great’s sons and successors, Constantine II was Arian, Constantius II was Airan/semi-Arian and Constans I was Nicene. Julian of course was paganized.
Ambrose came to his bishopric in the midst of all of this.
I want to highlight the example of Hilary of Poitiers on his return from exile. That in the midst of the extremes of heretical disputation, scandal and luxury of heretic do-nothings, the possibilities for active ministry can not be missed.
‘ Hilary also attended several synods during his time in exile, including the council at Seleucia (359) which saw the triumph of the homoion party and the forbidding of all discussion of the divine substance. In 360, Hilary tried unsuccessfully to secure a personal audience with Constantius, as well as to address the council which met at Constantinople in 360. When this council ratified the decisions of Ariminum and Seleucia, Hilary responded with the bitter In Constantium, which attacked the Emperor Constantius as Antichrist and persecutor of orthodox Christians. Hilary’s urgent and repeated requests for public debates with his opponents, especially with Ursacius and Valens, proved at last so inconvenient that he was sent back to his diocese, which he appears to have reached about 361, within a very short time of the accession of Emperor Julian.
On returning to his diocese in 361, Hilary spent most of the first two or three years trying to persuade the local clergy that the homoion confession was merely a cover for traditional Arian subordinationism. Thus, a number of synods in Gaul condemned the creed promulgated at the Council of Ariminum (359).
In about 360 or 361, with Hilary’s encouragement, Martin, the future bishop of Tours, founded a monastery at Ligugé in his diocese.
In 364, Hilary extended his efforts once more beyond Gaul. He impeached Auxentius, bishop of Milan, a man high in the imperial favour, as heterodox. Emperor Valentinian I accordingly summoned Hilary to Milan to there maintain his charges. However, the supposed heretic gave satisfactory answers to all the questions proposed. Hilary denounced Auxentius as a hypocrite as he had been ignominiously expelled from Milan. Upon returning home, Hilary in 365, published the Contra Arianos vel Auxentium Mediolanensem liber, describing his unsuccessful efforts against Auxentius. He also, perhaps at a somewhat earlier date, published the Contra Constantium Augustum liber, accusing the deceased emperor as having been the Antichrist, a rebel against God, “a tyrant whose sole object had been to make a gift to the devil of that world for which Christ had suffered.” ‘
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_of_Poitiers
Pope Francis is re-proposing Aquinas for the age. The assumption would therefore seem to be that the 4 “principles” in Evangelii are seamlessly compatible or otherwise reconcilable with Aquinas -whether through Thomism or something else; or that they will stand on their own merits outside Aquinas.
He has demarcated (below) four areas of focus. One would have supposed that a correct approach would have been an offering on the right teaching for each one, in as much as the trend to date has been to avoid -keep avoiding- the perennial magisterium. What has been developing is a tremendous babble of “personal insights”.
‘ He added that the Dominican theologian also demonstrated how grace elevates wounded human nature, with “rich implications for an understanding of the dynamics of a sound social order grounded in reconciliation, solidarity, justice, and mutual concern.” ‘
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2024/03/07/pope-francis-st-thomas-aquinas-is-needed-to-answer-todays-social-challenges/
From what I have seen already unfold in my Archdiocese, there is a movement to redefine everything in terms of “ecclesial community” and in particular the “ecclesial communities” peculiar to the locale; and locate the Christian identity and mission from these. If you read the ten points as a unit they seem to have in view how to flesh out further this movement and facilitate its expression, legality and progress. They mean to colonize, take over and rule everything.
Including schools.
By implication, “conversion” will necessarily “include” an “attestation” to those things and what they must yield; submitting to hierarchy who will guide it as a proof of true converting and the Holy Spirit. On these new premises it wouldn’t be right to say, “in line with that thinking” just so.
Further, apparently the Holy Spirit already intimated to certain souls that this is what the Holy Spirit wants “because its time has come”: the Holy Spirit was bringing about this very “kairos” in “the fullness of time”. My Archbishop gets very hot when he has to expound the kairos.
“It’s a kairos moment.”
The kairos is the widget that nuances, adapts, reorients or overturns the paradigm. Multi-taskish. This is underlying Traditionis Custodes, among all the others. The series -journey- that it travels through is marked by intermediate conclusion, suggestion, notionalizing and emotional baiting.
Compare to the 4 “principles” in Evangelii.
It seems someone wants the Opus Dei situation to be more ineluctable still.
Opus Dei is slowly throwing aside the founder’s original inspiration and the foundation laid by JPII for something else they have gone in search of with a certitude it will be found; so that when they find it, it help them avoid “being exceptional” but confirm their new certainty. They have singled out ONE Opus Dei norm to achieve this, unity with the Pope.
Had Ocariz said this during the time of Don Alvaro he would have been expelled. He knows it very well. Even more excruciating for them, Ocariz understands perfectly that the relatively recent legalism of “ecclesial community” was 1. not meant to express a spiritual revolution and 2. not meant to replace the true formatting already established for Opus Dei in the Holy Spirit.
My tenth installment, TEN ALL.
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/08/24/for-pope-francis-the-liturgical-reform-is-irreversible/?unapproved=288758&moderation-hash=36a7160ad640b3089d858cb649eddea3#comment-288758
See Fr. Morello’s comments on Fr. Matthew Fox O.P., in the CWR link on Fr. Aidan Nichols. (I just discovered this [i.e. for the first time] after my post on kairos! Same thing with synthetic circularity -Beaulieu’s post about Grech in Extra! Extra!)
There are different “theologies” and “spiritualities” to do with paradigm shift and “kairos” and whatever other new terminologies are inducted. The right perspective on these is that they were up for judgment by the Church -like gay spiritulaity also; not for haphazard and piecemeal inclusion coerced by the Pontiff.
If you research the topic online you will see many different interpretations coming with these topics from Catholics as well as non-Catholics.
What my Archbishop’s background reading and socializing has been I simply do not know. It’s not possible for me to be attending his homilies and lectures consistently where he name-drops on occasion. His inter-religious circles have been very varied too.
Here is a perspective-analysis about a position set up by Paul Tillich. As you can see, this traces a long history. It probably goes back to Teilhard de Chardin and others.
‘ In succession, the three “Kairos” texts show how Tillich employs the idea of a different temporality and a temporality of difference in order to rethink the relation of religion and politics and to reassess a situation of crisis. As Weber’s reading of the Hebrew prophets and Barth’s interpretation of the New Testament reveal, diverse and complex discourses echo in the idea of kairos, allowing for the formulation of new ideas of intellectual politics. The three different versions of Tillich’s texts reflect the idea’s capacity to adapt to different circumstances: kairos can connote both idealism and realism; it can highlight spiritual as well as very material needs; it can be connected to the prophetic as well as the priestly. The sequence of the texts also allows us to explore the strong rhetorical and performative dimension of the idea, which is fundamental to its relevance in the context of the Weimar Republic. More than simply a descriptive category, kairos constitutes a strong appellative moment that is essential for the politics it engenders. Even though its rhetoric of urgency runs the risk of lapsing into disappointment, its gesture is complex enough to integrate an awareness of that risk, as Tillich’s later texts show.
At least potentially, the rhetoric of kairos can thus lead to a self-critique that does not spiral into abstraction, sustaining vehemence without forgetting its own limitations. ‘
Prophetic Criticism and the Rhetoric of Temporality: Paul Tillich’s Kairos Texts and Weimar Intellectual Politics – by Daniel Weidner
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1462317X.2020.1730558
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2024/03/31/keeping-the-faith-with-fr-aidan-nichols/