It’s clear that some sort of shakeup to Rome’s diocesan governing apparatus had been coming, but both the specific form the Apostolic Constitution In Ecclesiarum communione took, and the optics created by its promulgation, are terrible.
Pope Francis listens as Cardinal Angelo De Donatis, papal vicar of Rome, speaks during an audience with the faithful from the Diocese of Rome at the Vatican Sept. 18, 2021. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)
Pope Francis has reorganized the Diocese of Rome. A complete rehearsal of the changes would run to considerable length and likely induce somnolence before it effected understanding. “Let me ’splain,” said Inigo Montoya to Wesley in The Princess Bride before thinking better and changing tack, “– No, there is too much, let me sum up.”
So, let me sum up.
By “reorganized” one means that he has discombobulated pretty much everything and reduced the government of his diocesan territory to little more than personal rule with straw offices and rump councils as window dressing.
Pope Francis has even created a new watchdog for the Vicariate. Styled an “Independent Oversight Committee”, the outfit is independent of everyone except the pope, who approves its bylaws, sets its agenda, names its members for three-year terms, and receives its reports.
Pope Francis himself will preside over the meetings of the diocesan leadership, take all decisions beyond those related to ordinary administration, police the treasury and the seminaries and basically everything else. Even the auxiliary bishops for each of Rome’s seven territorial divisions will report to Pope Francis, as well.
The Cardinal Vicar will now be an auxiliary of the pope, juridically equal to the other auxiliaries of the diocese and essentially a vicar in name only. He “shall not undertake important initiatives or any initiatives exceeding the ordinary administration [of the diocese] without referring to me.”
The document is striking for its personal language and tone: “I” and “me” are found throughout, rather than the technical legislative dictions like “the Roman Pontiff” or “the Ordinary” or some other such third person referent.
Pope Francis has done all this in the name of “synodality” – a word that comes up several times in some form or another throughout the long and cumbersome document outlining the new governing structure – but does not ever say what synodality is or what the “synodal style” of governance for which he calls in the document should be.
It’s pretty clear that some sort of shakeup to Rome’s diocesan governing apparatus has been in the offing for a while. Still, both the specific form the Apostolic Constitution In Ecclesiarum communione took, and the optics created by its promulgation, are terrible.
The moves from Pope Francis came in the wake of an unfortunate statement from the Cardinal Vicar regarding l’Affaire Rupnik – a radioactive global scandal of abuse and coverup that reaches far into the Apostolic Palace – and seem to have torn an already strained relationship into tatters.
It looks like Pope Francis is kneecapping Cardinal Angelo De Donatis – the guy Francis chose to be his right hand man in Rome and groomed for an even more prominent role on the curial stage – after De Donatis committed the one unforgivable sin of giving the pope a bad day in the press.
Is that what happened?
Sic et non, the Romans say – “Yes and No” – though in this case one may say, “No, and also Yes.”
Basically, Cardinal De Donatis picked a fight with Pope Francis when he passed the buck on Fr. Marko Ivan Rupnik, SJ, the disgraced Jesuit priest who is accused of sexual, psychological, and spiritual abuse of nine women over several years. Rupnik’s Jesuit superiors and senior Churchmen in Rome through three pontificates either turned a blind eye to Rupnik’s predatory proclivities or else actively worked to discredit his accusers. Under Francis, Rupnik received some highly unusual – not to say “very special” – treatment from the Vatican’s official organs of justice.
Just before Christmas, De Donatis issued a statement explaining why Rupnik still had ministry and held offices within the Rome Vicariate, basically saying that it was the pope’s decision and not up to the Cardinal Vicar. It was all couched in exquisite curialese, but the message was clear: Pope Francis was calling the shots on Rupnik. It’s a safe bet that didn’t fly well in the Apostolic Palace.
Truth be told, there’s been bad blood brewing between the pope and his vicar for some time.
In March of 2020, at the start of the corona virus pandemic, when no one really knew what was happening and hospitals were overrun and death tolls were climbing exponentially day by day and everyone was scared, Cardinal De Donatis decided to close Rome’s churches.
De Donatis took the decision after consulting with Pope Francis. The very next day, Cardinal De Donatis opened parish and mission churches. He took the second decision after “further discussion” with Pope Francis. Between the decision to shutter the churches and the decision to keep parishes and missions open, there was significant pushback from several quarters, including the pope’s own almoner.
That episode certainly put a strain on relations between the pope and his man for the city, which a 2021 financial audit likely did not help to ease. Suffice it to say that the rift has been several years coming.
Whether it was Cardinal De Donatis’s statement as led to the promulgation of the Apostolic Constitution in the precise form it took (and so quickly after the Christmastide contretemps), or whether Cardinal De Donatis knew that something like Inter Ecclesiarum was on its way and so decided to get off a shot while he could, is largely beside the point. Pope Francis has made it clear that he is in charge of everything.
Personally.
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given the “hermeneutic of continuity” emphasized by Pope Benedict XVI – and given especially the teaching of the First Vatican Council that popes have no […]
Pope Francis at the general audience in St. Peter’s Square, Oct. 5, 2016. / Credit: Daniel Ibanez/CNA
CNA Staff, Mar 13, 2024 / 12:00 pm (CNA).
March 13 marks the anniversary of the election of Pope Francis as the 266th successor of St. Peter. Here is a timeline of key events during his papacy:
2013
March 13 — About two weeks after Pope Benedict XVI steps down from the papacy, Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio is elected pope. He takes the papal name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi and proclaims from the central balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica: “Let us begin this journey, the bishop and people, this journey of the Church of Rome, which presides in charity over all the Churches, a journey of brotherhood in love, of mutual trust. Let us always pray for one another.”
March 14 — The day after he begins his pontificate, Pope Francis returns to his hotel to personally pay his hotel bill and collect his luggage.
July 8 — Pope Francis visits Italy’s island of Lampedusa and meets with a group of 50 migrants, most of whom are young men from Somalia and Eritrea. The island, which is about 200 miles off the coast of Tunisia, is a common entry point for migrants who flee parts of Africa and the Middle East to enter Europe. This is the pope’s first pastoral visit outside of Rome and sets the stage for making reaching out to the peripheries a significant focus.
Pope Francis gives the Wednesday general audience in St. Peter’s Square on Oct. 2, 2013. Elise Harris/CNA.
July 23-28 — Pope Francis visits Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to participate in World Youth Day 2013. More than 3 million people from around the world attend the event.
July 29 — On the return flight from Brazil, Pope Francis gives his first papal news conference and sparks controversy by saying “if a person is gay and seeks God and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” The phrase is prompted by a reporter asking the pope a question about priests who have homosexual attraction.
Nov. 24 — Pope Francis publishes his first apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel). The document illustrates the pope’s vision for how to approach evangelization in the modern world.
2014
Feb. 22 — Pope Francis holds his first papal consistory to appoint 19 new cardinals, including ones from countries in the developing world that have never previously been represented in the College of Cardinals, such as Haiti.
March 22 — Pope Francis creates the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. The commission works to protect the dignity of minors and vulnerable adults, such as the victims of sexual abuse.
Pope Francis greets pilgrims during his general audience on Nov. 29, 2014. Bohumil Petrik/CNA.
Oct. 5 — The Synod on the Family begins. The bishops discuss a variety of concerns, including single-parent homes, cohabitation, homosexual adoption of children, and interreligious marriages.
Dec. 6 — After facing some pushback for his efforts to reform the Roman Curia, Pope Francis discusses his opinion in an interview with La Nacion, an Argentine news outlet: “Resistance is now evident. And that is a good sign for me, getting the resistance out into the open, no stealthy mumbling when there is disagreement. It’s healthy to get things out into the open, it’s very healthy.”
2015
Jan. 18 — To conclude a trip to Asia, Pope Francis celebrates Mass in Manila, Philippines. Approximately 6 million to 7 million people attend the record-setting Mass, despite heavy rain.
March 23 — Pope Francis visits Naples, Italy, to show the Church’s commitment to helping the fight against corruption and organized crime in the city.
May 24 — To emphasize the Church’s mission to combat global warming and care for the environment, Pope Francis publishes the encyclical Laudato Si’, which urges people to take care of the environment and encourages political action to address climate problems.
Pope Francis at a Wednesday general audience in St. Peter’s Square on June 17, 2015. Bohumil Petrik.
Sept. 19-22 — Pope Francis visits Cuba and meets with Fidel Castro in the first papal visit to the country since Pope John Paul II in 1998. During his homily, Francis discusses the dignity of the human person: “Being a Christian entails promoting the dignity of our brothers and sisters, fighting for it, living for it.”
Sept. 22-27 — After departing from Cuba, Pope Francis makes his first papal visit to the United States. In Washington, D.C., he speaks to a joint session of Congress, in which he urges lawmakers to work toward promoting the common good, and canonizes the Franciscan missionary St. Junípero Serra. He also attends the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia, which focuses on celebrating the gift of the family.
Pope Francis speaks to the U.S. Congress in Washington, D.C. on Sept. 24, 2015. . L’Osservatore Romano.
Oct. 4 — Pope Francis begins the second Synod on the Family to address issues within the modern family, such as single-parent homes, cohabitation, poverty, and abuse.
Oct. 18 — The pope canonizes St. Louis Martin and St. Marie-Azélie “Zelie” Guérin. The married couple were parents to five nuns, including St. Therese of Lisieux. They are the first married couple to be canonized together.
Dec. 8 — Pope Francis’ Jubilee Year of Mercy begins. The year focuses on God’s mercy and forgiveness and people’s redemption from sin. The pope delegates certain priests in each diocese to be Missionaries of Mercy who have the authority to forgive sins that are usually reserved for the Holy See.
2016
March 19 — Pope Francis publishes the apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, which discusses a wide variety of issues facing the modern family based on discussions from the two synods on the family. The pope garners significant controversy from within the Church for comments he makes in Chapter 8 about Communion for the divorced and remarried.
April 16 — After visiting refugees on the Greek island of Lesbos, Pope Francis allows three Muslim refugee families to join him on his flight back to Rome. He says the move was not a political statement.
Pope Francis at the General Audience in St. Peter’s Square, Feb. 24, 2016. Daniel Ibanez/CNA.
July 26-31 — Pope Francis visits Krakow, Poland, as part of the World Youth Day festivities. About 3 million young Catholic pilgrims from around the world attend.
Sept. 4 — The pope canonizes St. Teresa of Calcutta, who is also known as Mother Teresa. The saint, a nun from Albania, dedicated her life to missionary and charity work, primarily in India.
Sept. 30-Oct. 2 — Pope Francis visits Georgia and Azerbaijan on his 16th trip outside of Rome since the start of his papacy. His trip focuses on Catholic relations with Orthodox Christians and Muslims.
Oct. 4 — Pope Francis makes a surprise visit to Amatrice, Italy, to pray for the victims of an earthquake in central Italy that killed nearly 300 people.
2017
May 12-13 — In another papal trip, Francis travels to Fatima, Portugal, to visit the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima. May 13 marks the 100th anniversary of the first Marian apparition to three children in the city.
July 11 — Pope Francis adds another category of Christian life suitable for the consideration of sainthood: “offering of life.” The category is distinct from martyrdom, which only applies to someone who is killed for his or her faith. The new category applies to those who died prematurely through an offering of their life to God and neighbor.
Pope Francis greets a participant in the World Day of the Poor in Rome, Nov. 16, 2017. L’Osservatore Romano.
Nov. 19 — On the first-ever World Day of the Poor, Pope Francis eats lunch with 4,000 poor and people in need in Rome.
Nov. 27-Dec. 2 — In another trip to Asia, Pope Francis travels to Myanmar and Bangladesh. He visits landmarks and meets with government officials, Catholic clergy, and Buddhist monks. He also preaches the Gospel and promotes peace in the region.
2018
Jan. 15-21 — The pope takes another trip to Latin America, this time visiting Chile and Peru. The pontiff meets with government officials and members of the clergy while urging the faithful to remain close to the clergy and reject secularism. The Chilean visit leads to controversy over Chilean clergy sex abuse scandals.
Aug. 2 — The Vatican formally revises No. 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which concerns the death penalty. The previous text suggested the death penalty could be permissible in certain circumstances, but the revision states that the death penalty is “inadmissible.”
Aug. 25 — Archbishop Carlo Viganò, former papal nuncio to the United States, publishes an 11-page letter calling for the resignation of Pope Francis and accusing him and other Vatican officials of covering up sexual abuse including allegations against former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. The pope initially does not directly respond to the letter, but nine months after its publication he denies having prior knowledge about McCarrick’s conduct.
Aug. 25-26 — Pope Francis visits Dublin, Ireland, to attend the World Meeting of Families. The theme is “the Gospel of family, joy for the world.”
Pope Francis at the 2018 World Meeting of Families in Ireland. Daniel Ibanez/CNA.
Oct. 3-28 — The Synod on Young People, the Faith, and Vocational Discernment takes place. The synod focuses on best practices to teach the faith to young people and to help them discern God’s will.
2019
Jan. 22-27 — The third World Youth Day during Pope Francis’ pontificate takes place during these six days in Panama City, Panama. Young Catholics from around the world gather for the event, with approximately 3 million people in attendance.
Feb. 4 — Pope Francis signs a joint document in with Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, the grand imam of Al-Azhar, in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, titled the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.” The document focuses on people of different faiths uniting together to live peacefully and advance a culture of mutual respect.
Pope Francis and Ahmed el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, signed a joint declaration on human fraternity during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi, UAE, Feb. 4, 2019. Vatican Media.
Feb. 21-24 — The Meeting on the Protection of Minors in the Church, which is labeled the Vatican Sexual Abuse Summit, takes place. The meeting focuses on sexual abuse scandals in the Church and emphasizes responsibility, accountability, and transparency.
Oct. 6-27 — The Church holds the Synod of Bishops for the Pan-Amazon region, which is also known as the Amazon Synod. The synod is meant to present ways in which the Church can better evangelize the Amazon region but leads to controversy when carved images of a pregnant Amazonian woman, referred to by the pope as Pachamama, are used in several events and displayed in a basilica near the Vatican.
Oct. 13 — St. John Henry Newman, an Anglican convert to Catholicism and a cardinal, is canonized by Pope Francis. Newman’s writings inspired Catholic student associations at nonreligious colleges and universities in the United States and other countries.
2020
March 15 — Pope Francis takes a walking pilgrimage in Rome to the chapel of the crucifix and prays for an end to the COVID-19 pandemic. The crucifix was carried through Rome during the plague of 1522.
March 27 — Pope Francis gives an extraordinary “urbi et orbi” blessing in an empty and rain-covered St. Peter’s Square, praying for the world during the coronavirus pandemic.
Pope Francis venerates the miraculous crucifix of San Marcello al Corso in St. Peter’s Square during his Urbi et Orbi blessing, March 27, 2020. Vatican Media.
2021
March 5-8 — In his first papal trip since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, Pope Francis becomes the first pope to visit Iraq. On his trip, he signs a joint statement with Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani condemning extremism and promoting peace.
July 3 — Cardinal Giovanni Angelo Becciu, who was elevated to the College of Cardinals by Pope Francis, is indicted in a Vatican court for embezzlement, money laundering, and other crimes. The pope gives approval for the indictment.
July 4 — Pope Francis undergoes colon surgery for diverticulitis, a common condition in older people. The Vatican releases a statement that assures the pope “reacted well” to the surgery. Francis is released from the hospital after 10 days.
July 16 — Pope Francis issues a motu proprio titled Traditionis Custodes. The document imposes heavy restrictions on the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass.
Dec. 2-6 — The pope travels to Cyprus and Greece. The trip includes another visit to the Greek island of Lesbos to meet with migrants.
Pope Francis greets His Beatitude Ieronymos II in Athens, Greece on Dec. 5, 2021. Vatican Media
2022
Jan. 11 — Pope Francis makes a surprise visit to a record store in Rome called StereoSound. The pope, who has an affinity for classical music, blesses the newly renovated store.
March 19 — The pope promulgates Praedicate Evangelium, which reforms the Roman Curia. The reforms emphasize evangelization and establish more opportunities for the laity to be in leadership positions.
May 5 — Pope Francis is seen in a wheelchair for the first time in public and begins to use one more frequently. The pope has been suffering from knee problems for months.
Pope Francis greeted the crowd in a wheelchair at the end of his general audience on Aug. 3, 2022. Daniel Ibanez/CNA
July 24-30 — In his first papal visit to Canada, Pope Francis apologizes for the harsh treatment of the indigenous Canadians, saying many Christians and members of the Catholic Church were complicit.
2023
Jan. 31-Feb. 5 — Pope Francis travels to the Democratic Republic of Congo and South Sudan. During his visit, the pope condemns political violence in the countries and promotes peace. He also participates in an ecumenical prayer service with Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby and Moderator of the Church of Scotland Iain Greenshields.
Pope Francis greets a young boy a Mass in Juba, South Sudan on Feb. 5, 2023. Vatican Media
March 29-April 1 — Pope Francis is hospitalized for a respiratory infection. During his stay at Rome’s Gemelli Hospital, he visits the pediatric cancer ward and baptizes a newborn baby.
April 5 — The pope appears in the Disney documentary “The Pope: Answers,” which is in Spanish, answering six “hot-button” issues from members of Gen Z from various backgrounds. The group discusses immigration, depression, abortion, clergy sexual and psychological abuse, transgenderism, pornography, and loss of faith.
April 28-30 — Pope Francis visits Hungary to meet with government officials, civil society members, bishops, priests, seminarians, Jesuits, consecrated men and women, and pastoral workers. He celebrates Mass on the final day of the trip in Kossuth Lajos Square.
Pope Francis stands on an altar erected outside the Parliament Building in Budapest’s Kossuth Lajos’ Square during a public outdoor Mass on April 30, 2023. Vatican Media
June 7 — The Vatican announces that Pope Francis will undergo abdominal surgery that afternoon under general anesthesia due to a hernia that is causing painful, recurring, and worsening symptoms. In his general audience that morning before the surgery, Francis says he intends to publish an apostolic letter on St. Thérèse of Lisieux, “patroness of the missions,” to mark the 150th anniversary of her birth.
June 15 — After successful surgery and a week of recovery, Pope Francis is released from Gemelli Hospital.
Aug. 2-6 — Pope Francis travels to Lisbon, Portugal, for World Youth Day 2023, taking place from Aug. 1-6. He meets with Church and civil leaders ahead of presiding at the welcoming Mass and Stations of the Cross. He also hears the confessions of several pilgrims. On Aug. 5, he visits the Shrine of Our Lady of Fátima, where he prays the rosary with young people with disabilities. That evening he presides over the vigil and on Sunday, Aug. 6, he celebrates the closing Mass, where he urges the 1.5 million young people present to “be not afraid,” echoing the words of the founder of World Youth Days, St. John Paul II.
Pope Francis waves at the crowd of 1.5 million people who attended the closing Mass of World Youth Day 2023 in Lisbon, Portugal on Aug. 6, 2023. Vatican Media.
Aug. 31-Sept. 4 — Pope Francis travels to Mongolia, the world’s most sparsely populated sovereign country. The trip makes Francis the first pope to visit the Asian country that shares a 2,880-mile border with China, its most significant economic partner. Mongolia has a population of about 1,300 Catholics in a country of more than 3 million people.
Pope Francis meets with local priests and religious of Mongolia, which includes only 25 priests (19 religious and six diocesan), 33 women religious, and one bishop — Cardinal Giorgio Marengo — in Ulaanbaatar’s Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul on Sept. 2, 2023. Credit: Vatican Media
Sept. 22-23 — On a two-day trip to Marseille, France, Pope Francis meets with local civil and religious leaders and participates in the Mediterranean Encounter, a gathering of some 120 young people of various creeds with bishops from 30 countries.
Pope Francis asks for a moment of silence at a memorial dedicated to sailors and migrants lost at sea on the first of a two-day visit to Marseille, France, Sept. 22, 2023. A Camargue cross, which comes from the Camargue area of France, represents the three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity. The three tridents represent faith, the anchor represents hope, and the heart represents charity. Credit: Daniel Ibañez/CNA
Oct. 4-29 — The Vatican hosts the first of two monthlong global assemblies of the Synod on Synodality, initiated by Pope Francis in 2021 to enhance the communion, participation, and mission of the Church. Pope Francis celebrates the closing Mass of the synod at St. Peter’s Basilica on Oct. 29. The second and final global assembly will take place at the Vatican in October 2024.
Pope Francis at the Synod on Synodality’s closing Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica on Oct. 29, 2023. Vatican Media
Nov. 25 — Pope Francis visits the hospital briefly for precautionary testing after coming down with the flu earlier in the day. Although he still participates in scheduled activities, other officials read his prepared remarks. The Vatican on Nov. 28 cancels the pope’s planned Dec. 1–3 trip to Dubai for the COP28 climate conference, where he was scheduled to deliver a speech, due to his illness.
Dec. 18 — The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith issues the declaration Fiducia Supplicans, which authorizes nonliturgical blessings for same-sex couples and couples in “irregular situations.” Various bishops from around the world voice both support for and criticism of the document.
2024
Jan. 4 — Amid widespread backlash to Fiducia Supplicans, Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, publishes a five-page press release that refers to Fiducia Supplicans as “perennial doctrine” and underlines that pastoral blessings of couples in irregular situations should not be “an endorsement of the life led by those who request them.”
Jan. 14 — Pope Francis for the first time responds publicly to questions about Fiducia Supplicans in an interview on an Italian television show. The pope underlines that “the Lord blesses everyone” and that a blessing is an invitation to enter into a conversation “to see what the road is that the Lord proposes to them.”
Feb. 11 — In a ceremony attended by Argentine president Javier Milei, Pope Francis canonizes María Antonia of St. Joseph — known affectionately in the pope’s home country as “Mama Antula” — in a Mass at St. Peter’s Basilica. The president and the former archbishop of Buenos Aires embrace after the ceremony. Pope Francis, who has not returned to his homeland since becoming pope in 2013, has said he wants to visit Argentina in the second half of this year.
Pope Francis meets with Argentina President Javier Milei in a private audience on Feb. 12, 2024, at the Vatican. Credit: Vatican Media
Feb. 28 — After canceling audiences the previous Saturday and having an aide read his prepared remarks at his Wednesday audience due to a “mild flu,” Pope Francis visits the hospital for diagnostic tests but returns to the Vatican afterward.
March 2 — Despite having an aide read his speech “because of bronchitis,” the pope presides over the inauguration of the 95th Judicial Year of the Vatican City State and maintains a full schedule.
March 13 — Pope Francis celebrates 11 years as Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church.
Rome Newsroom, Jun 9, 2022 / 07:38 am (CNA).
Pope Francis on Wednesday encouraged future Vatican diplomats to model themselves on the recently canonized St. Charles de Foucauld.The pope urged students of the … […]
58 Comments
One is reminded of 1870 and the reduction of the Pope Pius IX to a “prisoner of the Vatican,” inside the 109-acre border, after loss of the papal states (most of central Italy) and finally the fall of Eternal City to the secular forces.
Now, with synodality appearing more and more like a secular plebiscite, Pope Francis personally reclaims at least the Diocese of Rome! But then declares it “synodal”–all 217,600 acres. Now, if only the entire world land mass (a mass!) can be made “synodal”–all 36,794,240,000 acres.
Come on, Altieri, give “the bishop of Rome” (after all) a break! And, thinking big, and interreligiously with Lao Tzu, “the journey of a thousand miles [synodally “walking together”] begins with a single step!”
But wait, what? Like councils, synods are what the Church DOES, not what the Church IS. Not what is synodality, but rather, what is the Catholic Church?
The Catholic church is not a democracy; the Pope is a Vicar of Christ, Christ Jesus who’s God and, we the faithful are toddlers in front of Jesus. So, calling the Pope a dictator is referring to Jesus as a dictator and is a blasphemy.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
We know the same could not be said of Papa! Many are concerned that he has departed from the faith and presents his own point of view, instead of Christ the King.
Equating Jesus with the Pope is wrong. Calling a pope a dictator is not calling Jesus a dictator. The gift of understanding, please. Jesus is God with God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit. These three persons are of one substance. Francis is unadulteratedly and purely human. God is simply and essentially a different substance and essence than that of men. A good Catholic catechism can explain it more fully.
I am not judging but we must always with the spirit of discernment identity the actions of individuals. What do his/her behaviors disclose? In this his, the Pope Francis? Is he living the gospel is he defending truth is he defending what Jesus taught to the faithful? If so why then was the purpose of the crucified Christ? According to the Pope all are save, all people? Regardless of his position (with all respect), he is not Christ he is not the head of the Church. Christ is, and Christ is alive and well. The Bible the word of God is eternal no Vicar has the authority to change it.
With no intention of hurting anyone, it simply must be said that this statement is a perfect example of the infantilized and morally crippled mindset cultivated by the corrupted “Church Establishment,” which is practiced in the low arts of grooming the laity to defer to men who themselves work year-in-and-year-out to eclipse the authority of Jesus, and decapitate the Body of Christ, and substitute themselves as “the-new-godhead.”
These articles and others like them don’t bear any lasting good fruit I would suggest. It doesn’t matter how much of it is technically true or not. The devil is very happy for the so called “devout”Catholic to get embroiled in church politics and lose sight of the pilgrimage to sanctity. I have only one life to live and I certainly can’t afford to get caught up in all that and lose my peace of soul. I wonder how much faith those have who get involved in policing the Church. Perhaps they don’t really believe the gates of Hell will not prevail. Pray more. Maybe ponder like Mary on the one thing necessary.
John 21:18
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” [Jesus] said to him, “Feed my sheep. Amen, amen, I say to you,j when you were younger, you used to dress yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
EWTN’s ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing’ video will show you how the, ‘Liberal’ ‘Progressive’ ‘Democrats infiltrated the Catholic Church to destroy the Catholic Church. The Progressives started after WWI and have grown to become 800 covert organizations world wide, with the goal to destroy Christ’s Church. The Progressives have many operatives at top positions of power in our Catholic Church today.
The College of Cardinals, all younger than 80, elects Popes and requires at least 66% votes. Francis shall have it on February 21 when Cardinal Sepe turns 80. He need not appoint more before then, given his 16 new ones, who shall replace 80 year olds through Cardinal Sandri on November 18. Expect Francis to appoint 15 new Cardinals in December, who would replace 15 Cardinals through Cardinal Cardozo, who turns 80 on 10/10/24. On that day in 2 years, “Francis College Cardinals” shall be 77%. If Francis retires in 4 years when he turns 90 on, then he shall have appointed 83% of the College. Seven Cardinals were born before 1960; new Cardinal Marengo is only 47. They shall elect 2 successor “Francis Popes” during their lifetime, who shall appoint “Francis Cardinals” and “Francis Bishops,” who shall appoint “Francis Heads” of Seminaries, who shall appoint “Francis faculty,” who shall teach seminarians to become “Francis priests.”
Regarding Francis and US Bishops, he has appointed 132 US Bishops younger than age 75, which is the age when they no longer can vote in the UCCB. There currently are 140 US Bishops younger than age 75, who were appointed before Francis. 12 of them are age 74, including Burke, and from large Diocese like Brooklyn, Newark and Philadelphia. 18 of them are age 73, including Neumann, DiNardo and Salazar, and from large dioceses like Los Angeles, Galveston-Houston and New Orleans. Of the 272 US Bishops younger than age 75, Francis’ current 132 Bishops shall become the majority 137 UCCB voting Bishops when Bishop Fitzgerald turns 75 on May 23. Francis has appointed 7 US Bishops ages 46 – 50; and 23 US Bishops ages 51-55. Expect future appointments of similar young Bishops, who shall vote for 20-25 years in the UCCB. Therefore, the days of the control of the USCCB by conservative Bishops are numbered. That shall become most evident in the 2024 UCCB elections when all of the now 30 age 73 and 74 Bishops appointed before Francis shall have turned age 75 and no longer shall be able to vote. These US “Francis Bishops” shall appoint “Francis Heads” of Seminaries, who shall appoint “Francis faculty,” who shall teach seminarians to become “Francis priests.”
There is nothing you can do. You “dont have the numbers, and the House always wins.”
All very cute, this numbers game, unless those Francis cardinals who are also international–and possibly not toadies to Western ideologies–vote prudently and wisely in the next conclave. And maybe well before Pope Francis is 90.
The irony of it all! These so-called “Francis cardinals.” The Church is still guided by the Holy Spirit, and the cardinals always have the option of exercising their free will in a graced and conforming direction. God writes straight with crooked lines. Waiting to see “how sweet it is…”
You’ve already cut, pasted, and posted this exact same drivel on several different articles on this site in the past. Please provide all of us with an explanation for this obvious trolling behavior. Who’s paying you to troll CWR?
Not paid to debate debatable comments by others, nor for articles. It’s also apparent that readers do not read everything in these threads and, therefore, that repetition is not out of place.
Not cut and paste. Not trolling. And as for drivel, I actually look for and find your stuff worth reading; try harder to not erode your credibility.
P: I wasn’t referring to your post. I was responding to the Anna Amoz post above, which I have seen here at CWR on several occasions. Sorry if that replied under your post – that was not my intent.
“There is nothing you can do. You ‘dont have the numbers, and the House always wins.’ How sweet it is.”
This post is fantasy at best. First, it assumes that the cardinals and bishops Pope Francis has appointed are all 100% aligned with him ideologically. Nothing could be further from the truth. Secondly, it ignores the history of the Catholic Church. We’ve experienced wild swings in the papacy in the past; there’s no reason the pendulum will not swing back in the opposite direction. Pope Formosus was dug up by Stephen VI, and his corpse was thrown in the river, with all his acts being reversed and Stephen declaring him an antipope. Then Stephen’s successor reversed Stephen. Happens all the time. In our day, we went from Pope Ratzinger to Pope Francis. It can swing back again.
Regarding “Francis priests,” one wonders which planet you inhabit. Many young priests that are coming up through the ranks, in the U.S. and abroad, are ideologically more “conservative” than Pope Francis and will be here long after he is gone. The majority of men who are of the same mindset as the pope don’t become priests because they don’t practice the Faith. Many people who practice the Faith are not of the same thinking as Pope Francis, and they are the ones having children, not the others. It is Pope Francis and his allies who, in a few short years, won’t have the numbers, as they have not been able to produce vocations. Traditional Catholic families will be producing vocations and outlast and outnumber people like you and people like the German bishops. How sweet it is.
What you are not accounting for is the people in the pews. At this time they are mostly old ( and generally conservative leaning). They are mostly not fans of Francis. It would appear younger, LIBERAL ( Francis-type) folk have no use for religion as a group and most are not attending church at all. Nor, of course, are they supporting the church financially. ( These are often the same folk who hate America too.) So, when the older faithful die, they will take their wallets with them. This will necessarily result in a shrinking church. Possibly with many Cardinals to standing around looking for people to order about or more Latin Masses to cancel, but they will be frustrated in that attempt. They will be the proverbial “empty gong”. Because the believers will either be mostly dead or will have voted with their feet and left the church. Interestingly, at the same time these aged liberals are taking power, what few new priests come into the church are now and likely will remain statistically leaning CONSERVATIVE. At least, they are in the US. Eventually the aged liberals will inevitably die, and with any luck and the blessing of the Holy Spirit, the church will be able to recapture its effectiveness and relevance with a new generation of believers. Side note: the recent injury of a 24 year old football player and the immediate prayers for his recovery which his serious injury elicited, was an interesting study in the reality that not everyone believes “God is dead” liberal tripe. Most REAL Catholics prefer to attend church , but that being said, one can pray anywhere.
But then there’s still the question internal to whatever is left (meaning intact!) of the Church today…a question apparently beyond the elementary competence of papal ghost writers…
How to do real listening, not only post-tradition talking and “walking together”?
How to be enlivened by the Holy Spirit, not eclipsing the Deposit of Faith?
How to evangelize fully, not being assimilated generically into the world?
How to at least govern, not redefining both governance and morality?
How to develop deeply, not double-speaking into a bogus “paradigm shift”?
How to respond creatively, faithfully and clearly to the dubia, not shelving Veritatis Splendor?
How to do a synodal Church, not a cross-dressed churchy synodality?
Cross culturally, as with the Chinese emperor who was asked how he would restore his kingdom: “I would restore the meaning of words!”…
Not a tautological “synod on synodality”!
Not so. At least, I recall nothing, and a spot check of past postings also shows nothing.
I think what you recall is something more like the following (from 5-02-22)—another use of contrasts, which I have reworded nine times (Lord have mercy!) in the past four years, to make a point or four…
“We are told, for example, that ‘realities are more important than ideas.’ That statement can be interpreted variously…”We are also told that this statement is anointed as a “principle” (Evangelii Gaudium, 2013), and that there are three other like principles, all of which lend themselves to avoidable misunderstanding:
“First, when is “realities are more important than ideas [concepts?]” at risk of NOMINALISM (exemptions from undenied moral norms)?
Then, when is “time is greater than space” at risk of HISTORICISM (the “paradigm shift”)?
Also, when is “unity prevails over conflict” at risk of CLERICALISM (the synodal triad of Marx, Bats-sing and Hollerich)?
And, when is “the whole is greater than the part” at risk of GLOBALISM (e.g., the Fundamental Option, Proportionalism/Consequentialism)?
“The difficult fit is how to leaven increasingly disrupted life on the street with revealed and undiluted truth? How to be equally steadfast in both mercy and dogmatic truth?”
all this may be true, but it wil not affect the salvation of those believe the words of Jeus recorded in the Gospels and the teaches of Church for 2000 years. God wills the salvation of all souls and provides the guidance of the Holy Spirit for those have the humility to listen. No can knowingly ignore Holy Scripture, the Church Father, the Councils, and the Teaching Magisterium of the Church will not be saved unless they repent.
“EWTN’s ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing’ video is penetrating yet, somewhat confusing.
It solidifies the importance of Jesus Christ and His work and word. When we have Jesus the rest is iinconsequential. To be of use to our fellow man is to have reliance and assurance in Jesus. The film underscored this precept
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Thank you for this reference and your devotion to understanding and praising God.
As intensified the drawing of final authority to himself, as diluted will become the legitimate Apostolic authority of bishops in Rome. Presumably this is the model for dioceses throughout the world.
“Pope Francis has made it clear that he is in charge of everything” (Altieri). Papal vicar for the diocese of Rome De Donatis knows this. What he will also know is that this strategy signals the dissipation of unity within a Christ instituted
ecclesial schemata beginning with shared Apostolic authority. A universal Church crumbling into disunity no longer a Church [moreso than Protestant denominations], rather disparate churches each diocese a synodal listening body creating its own rules [already in effect when the CDF prefect with Francis’ impetus determined that diocesan bishops be permitted to formulate their own policy on communion for pro abortion politicians] each diocese its own magisterium. A design engineered to effectively render the word Catholic, or universal irrelevant.
Francis said early on he envisioned a converse pyramid ⛛ Church, authority welling upward from the body, which theoretically is Synodality, the plebeian, Spirit guided adjustment of revelation to existential [concrete] realities. Rather than top down irreducible precepts which do not address the reality on the ground.
St Thomas Aquinas offers the resolution to Francis’ moral dilemma with a radical approach [misunderstood by ethicists to this day] of morality down to earth grounded in deliberation of the conditions of the act to be done, a first principle. Not a casuistic downward application of a universal moral principle to on the ground particulars.
St Gregory Nazianzen [390 AD] supplements this with Synderesis [recognized by Aquinas in the Summa], the consequent ‘upward’ assessment of the singular principle, the act to be done with the correct universal. Although it is the apprehension of the singular principle, the act to be done that determines the good of the act. Apprehension by the intellect facilitated by the Natural Law Within.
And this correct understanding of moral judgment is realized in the exclusive faith principle that revelation is no longer in prophecy from below rather from above, in its fullness, in the Person of Christ, and that his authority is delegated vicariously not absolutely.
From someone looking on from the outside, this seems like a pretty normal exercise of executive power. As I understand it, he has the right to do this in Rome; it’s just that it might not be exercised quite so directly most of the time.
It might not be the best of ideas to have even more meetings and reporting structures, since Pope Francis is getting on, but perhaps he got tired of all the rumours about his imminent retirement and decided to make a point that, yes, he’s still here and not going anywhere right now, despite what some might prefer?
Perhaps? If people start obsessing over who comes next and he ends up a “lame-duck pope” (to borrow a term from the USA) it could prevent him from further enacting his supposedly liberal agenda.
There are likely other ways to do it, but every leader has their own management style. Perhaps he’s also concerned that the existing setup led to poor outcomes in some cases.
I don’t think he ducked them. They didn’t have anything relevant to offer, so he ignored them. Lots of people do that. Avoids getting dragged down rabbit holes.
Todd Flowerday ….
You mean to accept that we are not in a rabbit hole. Apparently you would be saying as well, that the dubia and other questions are closed and have no point or further merit.
Below, January 11, 2023 at 6:26 am, you outline certain areas of “progress” and could be implying they are all that matter, qui vivra verra, after all.
“You mean to accept that we are not in a rabbit hole.”
Some of us are.
“Apparently you would be saying as well, that the dubia and other questions are closed and have no point or further merit.”
I think a lot of commentators have addressed the dubia material and have dismissed them. I suspect the cardinals and their supporters would have preferred PF engage them directly. Well, suppose I write to one of the dubia cardinals. Would they be dodging me if they declined to address my criticisms? IS that how it works?
I think PF let others do his dismantling. I’m good with that. I have my own critique of the dubia; should you and I discuss that?
Discuss inside the rabbit holes or outside? To do what more assemblaging-dismantling-non-dismantling type thingys? You answered the dubia to your method but you expect others to dodge you for it?
Not sure what you mean here, Elias. Much is up for discussion, and I for one welcome it. Bring it on.
One example: the Orthodox handle divorce and second marriages differently from Rome and permit Communion. We hold all Orthodox sacraments as valid. If a door is open for certain situations discerned with a bishop or pastor, why not permit a person abandoned in a first marriage to remarry without that artificial stigma of adultery? (Which really does not apply.) To my awareness Cdl Burke has not offered a more detailed commentary or refutation on other ways of handling this. It’s almost as if he’s bought wholesale into the concept of no-fault divorce through a subsidiary: all-fault divorce.
In sum, I think the dubia presented by these cardinals don’t hold up. But if Carl wants me to present my points, he can ask me to write an article or 5.
Anna N Amoz, calumny goes all the way to mortal sin. It’s not alleviated by boasting and irony, it is made worse. A relish for such things is indicating a set purpose -guilt; but also an underlying cynicism that again comes into sin.
It seems like some little progress has been made under nearly a decade of Pope Francis. We don’t have criminals like Maciel raising money hand over foot for JP2. Not to mention a quarter century of bishops vetted for comments on women’s ordination, but somehow the Congregation of Bishops tripped up on sex with women and children. And B16, who seemed to figure Ted McC’s retirement settled the issue. It’s not a surprise ex-Cdl O’Brien was such a blow. Doctrinal orthodoxy, check. But a big Matthew 21:28-32 miss.
Pope Francis is far from perfect, and he has his own blind spots with personnel, not unlike his two predecessors. At least he’s moving a few things on fronts that matter to most of the rest of the Church. And in cases of extreme ex-clergy like Frank Pavone and Ted McC, they are repositioned where they belong.
Conservative and not-too-conservative popes, meh. Who cares? And cardinals, likewise. Just do your job with the Congregation of Bishops and limit the cult of celebrity in the priesthood and we’ll all be on better footing. If synodality moves us in that direction, I can’t see why we’re not all in favor.
Of the varied imperfections of JP II, B16 and now Francis I, you summarize, “If synodality moves us in that direction [away from the cult of celebrity], I can’t see why we’re not all in favor.” Also thinking of their similarities, all three were/are deeply and well-influenced by Luigi Giussani, founder of “Communion and Liberation.”
Would like to hear your thoughts on whether synodality–and its liberating focus on “encounter” and true “companionship” (aka now “fraternity”, and “walking together”?)–is sabotaged by a procedural disconnect between past and present? The difference between personal celebrity and the Church’s interwoven magisterium….About which, Giussani also said this:
“A writer of the Samizdat, that is, of underground Soviet literature, says ‘We well know the falseness of all revolutions lies in the fact that they are strong and concrete in condemning and destroying, but are absolutely weak and abstract in building and creating’. They are, that is, impotent, impotent before the future, because they have burned all their bridges with the past [the magisterium?] and in doing so refuse to see the past as the cohesive tissue [a doctrinally acquired immune system?] of that very present that they hold so dear. Because even as the human person is one, so too history is one, and the force of the present undertaking lies in all that has preceded it” (Giussani, “The Religious Sense,” Ignatius, 1990).
So, largely agreeing with you about celebrity, but also lamenting the burned bridges; and suggesting, therefore, that the dubia was not “irrelevant” (as you propose, further above).
“Would like to hear your thoughts on whether synodality is sabotaged by a procedural disconnect between past and present?”
Good question. I think conservative and trad-leaning Catholics are bothered by the shift in culture. It might make some less willing to engage in the synod process. In that sense the sabotage is from below.
That being said, Rome is but one of a few thousand dioceses. Other dioceses will find fruit or they will struggle depending on the local leadership. If the political desire to see PF fail stretches into some dioceses and especially their bishops, then certain voices will be lost. Other dioceses will forge ahead. Some places and individuals will choose to stay behind.
My own sense is that the moment for synodality was just after Evangelii Nuntiandi. JP2 had the right spirit, but he and his advisors lacked the methodology or the will to find something new. B16 inherited a Church that had wandered a bit off the optimal path. The 1978-2013 era expended a lot of energy on political things, the so-called dictatorship of relativism, the role of women, the smaller purer church, and ultimately, mismanagement by most bishops (it seems).
Fifty years on, we’ve lost a lot of the post-conciliar energy. And to be sure, the issues of managing sex predators, uppity women, fluid commitments to reason–these are all important. But mission has to be number one. It wasn’t. The prior two popes didn’t see it, and all the WYD feel-good events didn’t really address the challenge.
So I have hope with synodality. Critics look like they’ve channeled Luke 15:28-32. That’s not a winning formula.
Todd, thank you for your thoughtful remarks. I agree especially on Pope Paul VI’s Evangelii Nuntiandi. My response here comes in three parts:
FIRST, as for evangelization, let’s give credit for St. John Paul II for his follow-up and personal evangelization in 129 countries…
And for his encyclicals. (Even Pope Francis’ Laudato si is an extended footnote to part of Centesimus Annus, 1991, nn. 36-39). Not to mention St. John Paul II’s key role in dismantling the Soviet Empire—no “provisional agreement” there, although the circumstances were riper.
SECOND, as for the sabotage of synodality–coming from “the bottom” as you say…
But not only, since we have timely signaling—exploitable photo-ops with poster-child Fr. James Martin, and the tutelage of synodal kingpin Cardinal Hollerich whose endgame is to upend (so to speak!) the Catechism on matters of sexual morality. So—from above—several drops of cyanide into the synodal punch bowl, as we are groomed into a pastorally social-scientific and plebiscite (c)hurch.
THIRD, back to my original point, that burning bridges–and confusion of what it means to be “ahead” or “behind”–is actually a betrayal of the future…
Agreed, no one is accountable to respond to you (or me) regarding the dubia. However, the living Church (still breathing?) is accountable to itself in the Deposit of Faith, and the Magisterium of which Veritatis Splendor (VC) is explicitly an integral part—and central to the dubia:
“This is the first time, in fact, that the Magisterium of the Church has set forth in detail the fundamental elements of this [‘moral’] teaching and presented the principles [e.g., moral absolutes] for the pastoral discernment necessary in practical and cultural situations which are complex and even crucial” (VS, n. 115). AND “The Church is no way [!] the author or the arbiter of this [‘moral’] norm” (VS, n. 95).
How soon we forget, or choose not to remember while “walking together.”
Yes, I think JP2’s efforts in dozens of countries were a fine example. But it never moved beyond the pope to the bishops and the laity, not in any large-scale effort. His writings, yes, certainly, and I’ve studied some of those in detail on my own site.
I think the struggle was to move past the celebrity aspect of his papacy. He was undeniably a charismatic figure, larger than life. In some ways, that was a hindrance.
I think Fr Martin’s detractors miss his purpose. He wants to gather/attract/drag people into the Church. Another commentator I read some years ago asked where a person steeped in modern culture is likely to have a come-to-Jesus moment: in nightclubs, bars, arenas, and parades? Or in church? I don’t find Fr Martin nearly as bothersome as some of the people at CWR do.
Some might say Veritatis Splendor is a part of the deposit. If, in its implementation, it damages the qualities of accompaniment and mercy, perhaps the people using it as a tool have blundered. VS is a reference work. Valuable, yes. But elements of it are particular to its time, and perhaps today a different implementation is needed.
Todd: My Gawd, I think what we have here at CWR is a civil exchange of possibly different ideas about reality. Wonderful! Now, to continue:
Is it really accurate to assert that “elements of [Veritatis Splendor, VS] are particular to its time…”? The counterpoint would be that this predisposition lends itself to historicism, that affirmations of permanent things are themselves only time-bound and culture-bound.
What about the affirmation in Veritatis Splendor that this mindset is a deception, coming in the form of a schizophrenic (my word) nod to doctrinal truths, surely, but then combined with contradictory “pastoral” approaches? Here are two relevant citations from the Magisterium, and then a related link:
FIRST, “Each of us knows how important is the teaching which represents the central theme of this encyclical and which today is being restated with the authority of the Successor of Peter. Each of us can see the seriousness of what is involved, not only for individuals but also for the whole of society, with the REAFFIRMATION OF THE UNIVERSALITY AND IMMUTABILITY OF THE MORAL COMMANDMENTS [italics], particularly those which prohibit always and without exception INTRINSICALLY EVIL ACTS [italics]” (VS, n. 115).
SECOND, “A SEPARATION [caps added] or even an opposition, is thus established in some cases between the teaching of the precept, which is valid and general, and the norm of the individual conscience, which would in fact make the final decision [no longer a ‘moral judgment’!] about what is good and what is evil. On this basis, an attempt is made to legitimize so-called ‘pastoral’ solutions contrary to the teaching of the Magisterium, and to justify a ‘creative’ hermeneutic according to which the moral conscience is in no way obliged, in every case, by a particular negative precept [thou shalt not!]” (VS, n. 56).
THIRD, now, in the promised link, I propose, or ask, or possibly only imagine that even the Nicene Creed itself might be cross-dressed as only a creature of the moment, that such revealed and articulated dogmatic messages of Ultimate Reality are themselves essentially time-bound, and also can now be obsolesced by “a different implementation” under plebiscite synodality–that now “the process is (!) the message”: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/category/the-dispatch/
What are we to think about what C.S. Lewis labeled as “chronological snobbery,” even in a red hat? Are we to steadfastly walk the talk, or only talk the walk?
I suppose my aversion to the “adultery” charge on divorce and remarriage (it was the 4th dubium, I think, and strikes me as dismissive or even ignorant of CCC 2380) is based partly on witnessing the experience of people who have made errors in marriage, especially outside of the Catholic Church. Each of my parents was an example. In my mother’s case more directly, it blocked her from ever becoming Catholic, despite a long association with the parish where my siblings and I were baptized. She admitted to me decades later in her 80s she was married, very briefly, to a man before my dad.
To be sure, marrying to escape rural poverty at the end of the Great Depression is a poverty itself, even for a Baptist. But what would the dubia cardinal have us do years later when my parents were engaged in a marriage that lasted fifty years? Before I was born, my parents wanted to adopt a Catholic girl whom they fostered. It was denied, despite promises of church attendance and Catholic school enrollment. Decades later, a conversation between my “foster sister,” in her 40s, and me in my 20s, remarking how the Catholic girl ended as a fundamentalist Protestant, and the son of Protestant parents landed as a Roman Catholic. And wouldn’t the Catholic Charities priest be scratching his head over how that happened. I suspect the former bishop of LaCrosse too.
A subjective story, I know. But it illustrates the problem with theologians and canon lawyers having the last word in every situation. Under JP2, there was little enough trust (and perhaps training too) for clergy to work with couples to make thoughtful, prayerful discernments on situations that those cardinals (cruelly, I think) label as “adultery.” Looking at the Gospels, we are not yet advocating the removal of hands, or eyes, or other organs to comply with the Lord’s particular preaching aimed at particular people in a certain time and place.
I think people can discover personal regret, fault to the point of serious sin, and, with a spiritual guide, move forward in the good graces of the sacramental life. Now, to be clear, I don’t need to advocate for that for myself, or for any particular person. My parents are dead now. I’d also dismiss the method of the priest who had his couples for RCIA fill out the form for a declaration of nullity, file it in his desk, and bring it out six months later, telling his charges they were good to go for Easter.
Bottom line: I have no problem with Pope Francis leaving things rather open to a local interpretation. But y’all knew that before I typed it.
May I ask, why did you read the rather lengthy post, and then take the time to respond to it? Perhaps it would be better if you did just what you suggest we all do.
Todd Flowerday, responding to your post January 12, 2023 at 1:08 pm, above, to mine; but using this new space.
Yes I could see you are prompting discussion. Pope Francis calls it dialogue and walking and he stresses on a need for invitings and promptings.
Your comments have distracting clutter in them, for eg., what the Orthodox do is unquestionable, or, nullity is for the removal of the stigma of adultery.
Or, as if Amoris “opinion” trumps dubia “opinion”, that it happened already and it’s time to move on because it’s worthily settled; and those who feel settled with it have respectable positions that is automatic and must get respect.
What you say about Cardinal Burke is truly confused and I think quite wrong.
The dubia contain and are rooted in foundational and perennial Church teachings that can never be removed and that are -as well- part of the pastoral care in the different dimensions of the Church:
a) they have a universal instructional and discernment authenticity/authority
b) they are not dissolved or made impotent or irrelevant, by “exceptional situations” and
c) “exceptional situations” do not escape them because “exceptions are in process/at work”.
There is another aspect to this. Amoris would (seem to) be assuming that the people it envisages who need exceptional care, can be spared these teachings for the time being, for compassion and mercy’s sake.
First, Amoris does not admit when and how the teachings provide the explanation and insights where the people got into trouble in the first place; or, why and how the teachings are their salvation.
Second, to start with, Amoris remains ambiguous about the essential teachings, deferring instead to spending a lot of time reviewing the supposed human -humanistic- nature of familial love. There appears to be an idea that this human -humanistic- love was sacramental from Adam/Genesis.
Third, the silence of Pope Francis is fueling the ambiguities.
Fourth, Pope Francis has specifically endorsed the Argentinian and Maltese on each of their “practices” but without reconciling the dichotomies just described or those falling between their separate practices.
Overall, what I outline works and holds true both inside and outside the rabbit holes, if that metaphor has any real bearing.
“Your comments have distracting clutter in them, for eg., what the Orthodox do is unquestionable, or, nullity is for the removal of the stigma of adultery.”
Obviously, I disagree. I’m pointing out in this instance that VS doesn’t describe the only valid sacramental system. Adultery, as a mortal sin, requires the intent of the person committing it. It doesn’t seem applicable in all cases of divorce.
“The dubia contain and are rooted in foundational and perennial Church teachings that can never be removed …”
I didn’t address teaching as much as promote a more careful and discerning pastoral practice.
“Amoris does not admit when and how the teachings provide the explanation and insights where the people got into trouble in the first place …”
Did it have to do so? It doesn’t mention Real Presence either. But one would be hard pressed to make a case that PF denies this. People get into trouble for all sorts of reasons. They are baptized, possibly not in a Catholic Church, but never catechized. The spouse was abusive. There was drug use. The marriage was forced by an outside party. There was a medical condition before or during the marriage. I would stress a carefully formed pastor is better placed than a cardinal or even a pope who is long removed from pastoral ministry.
” … the silence of Pope Francis is fueling the ambiguities.”
He didn’t address the cardinals personally. Mmm. Nor in public. Frustrating, but it doesn’t change what anybody wrote. More accurate to say he didn’t offer public dialogue with the cardinals, only one of whom was currently serving as a pastor, and Meisner was already retired. It seems PF is more interested in dialogue with pastors who have real problems, not theoretical ones.
We know every pope has detractors, and it seems all of those popes were selective in the persons with whom they dialogued.
When you are at odds with the truth you are apt to miss and/or spoil the entirety of everything in faith and outside of faith.
This applies whether or not you do it in the name of your parents and/or of rabbit holes. You get sacrament, tradition and life, wrong.
Even should you not listen. Terrible.
You have appropriated all the new technique: this split from that and everything stays in process with things said now not said earlier.
“… you are apt to miss and/or spoil the entirety of everything in faith and outside of faith.”
You are describing the human condition. People who wrap themselves in the mantle of truth and orthodoxy are as likely to give the faith a bad reputation.
Otherwise, you are missing the point.
You say it. And you impose the line. You contradict yourself.
Indeed, indeed, how sweet it is! But not for the reason you folks are thinking/hoping. Our Lord promised that the very gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. It will prevail!
During the time the Church was considering the issue of the Immaculate Conception, a large group of theologians (many, Dominicans) were completely against, after all, for example (and as many Protestants have said for centuries), why would she call God her Savior, he she were sinless. Well, as a Franciscan theologian explained, there are two ways to save a person from a pit: (1) prevent the person from falling into the pit, (2) or take the person out of the pit after falling into it. In the case of our Mother, God prevented her from falling into sin; that is how He saved her.
It is purely my speculation, but I believe, that with Mary as the model of the Church, and the personification of the Church, Christ will do the same for His Church, as God did for His mother: prevent her from falling into the pit.
To many, it may seem as if the Church is in the pit already, or at least has a foot in it. I reply to such with a reminder of the three Hebrew teenagers in the book of Daniel: they were thrown into the fiery pit, but came out without so much as the smell of smoke on them.
Thus, with so much turmoil in the Church – including a pope who seems embarrassed to be Catholic, and seemingly bent (hell bent, you could say) on over turning two millennia of Church teaching – people are fearful about the future of the Church. As Christ said many times, as Pope St John Paul the Great said at the beginning of his pontificate: Fear not! Christ still reigns, Christ still loves His Church, Christ still protects His Church.
And if the wounds the Bride is suffering cause you to worry, worry not! Rarely are the times the winner of a combat sport won unscathed. Rarely has the winner of a winning team won without some members being injured – some even carted off. Christ promised that His Church would prevail, but he did not promise that His Church would prevail uninjured.
So, what are we to do? Be Catholic! Happily and joyfully! If I may borrow from St Paul: Rejoice! I say, again, Rejoice. If I may borrow from St Peter, our first pope: Rejoice, for what is happening is nothing new! It is just a refining our faith. Therefore, rejoice and be glad. If I may borrow one last time, and this time from Habbakkuk, (and re-word for our situation): even if there be nobody in the pews, even if there be nobody in seminary, even the would I believe, even then would I rejoice!
Our Lord still reigns! Our Lord still loves and guides His Church! Be joyful!
One is reminded of 1870 and the reduction of the Pope Pius IX to a “prisoner of the Vatican,” inside the 109-acre border, after loss of the papal states (most of central Italy) and finally the fall of Eternal City to the secular forces.
Now, with synodality appearing more and more like a secular plebiscite, Pope Francis personally reclaims at least the Diocese of Rome! But then declares it “synodal”–all 217,600 acres. Now, if only the entire world land mass (a mass!) can be made “synodal”–all 36,794,240,000 acres.
Come on, Altieri, give “the bishop of Rome” (after all) a break! And, thinking big, and interreligiously with Lao Tzu, “the journey of a thousand miles [synodally “walking together”] begins with a single step!”
But wait, what? Like councils, synods are what the Church DOES, not what the Church IS. Not what is synodality, but rather, what is the Catholic Church?
The pope has obviously decided to become a dictator. Going to Pius X for real Catholicism.
The Catholic church is not a democracy; the Pope is a Vicar of Christ, Christ Jesus who’s God and, we the faithful are toddlers in front of Jesus. So, calling the Pope a dictator is referring to Jesus as a dictator and is a blasphemy.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
We know the same could not be said of Papa! Many are concerned that he has departed from the faith and presents his own point of view, instead of Christ the King.
See Galatians chapter 2. St. Paul committed no blasphemy when confronting St. Peter who was “very wrong” in his actions.
The word “dictator” is yours. The article simply describes what happened.
Equating Jesus with the Pope is wrong. Calling a pope a dictator is not calling Jesus a dictator. The gift of understanding, please. Jesus is God with God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit. These three persons are of one substance. Francis is unadulteratedly and purely human. God is simply and essentially a different substance and essence than that of men. A good Catholic catechism can explain it more fully.
I am not judging but we must always with the spirit of discernment identity the actions of individuals. What do his/her behaviors disclose? In this his, the Pope Francis? Is he living the gospel is he defending truth is he defending what Jesus taught to the faithful? If so why then was the purpose of the crucified Christ? According to the Pope all are save, all people? Regardless of his position (with all respect), he is not Christ he is not the head of the Church. Christ is, and Christ is alive and well. The Bible the word of God is eternal no Vicar has the authority to change it.
With no intention of hurting anyone, it simply must be said that this statement is a perfect example of the infantilized and morally crippled mindset cultivated by the corrupted “Church Establishment,” which is practiced in the low arts of grooming the laity to defer to men who themselves work year-in-and-year-out to eclipse the authority of Jesus, and decapitate the Body of Christ, and substitute themselves as “the-new-godhead.”
I believe that Pope Francis himself no longer says that he is the “Vicar of Christ”. He’s removed that title.
These articles and others like them don’t bear any lasting good fruit I would suggest. It doesn’t matter how much of it is technically true or not. The devil is very happy for the so called “devout”Catholic to get embroiled in church politics and lose sight of the pilgrimage to sanctity. I have only one life to live and I certainly can’t afford to get caught up in all that and lose my peace of soul. I wonder how much faith those have who get involved in policing the Church. Perhaps they don’t really believe the gates of Hell will not prevail. Pray more. Maybe ponder like Mary on the one thing necessary.
John 21:18
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” [Jesus] said to him, “Feed my sheep. Amen, amen, I say to you,j when you were younger, you used to dress yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
EWTN’s ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing’ video will show you how the, ‘Liberal’ ‘Progressive’ ‘Democrats infiltrated the Catholic Church to destroy the Catholic Church. The Progressives started after WWI and have grown to become 800 covert organizations world wide, with the goal to destroy Christ’s Church. The Progressives have many operatives at top positions of power in our Catholic Church today.
https://youtu.be/ZnKB9NzgD4k
How sweet it is.
The College of Cardinals, all younger than 80, elects Popes and requires at least 66% votes. Francis shall have it on February 21 when Cardinal Sepe turns 80. He need not appoint more before then, given his 16 new ones, who shall replace 80 year olds through Cardinal Sandri on November 18. Expect Francis to appoint 15 new Cardinals in December, who would replace 15 Cardinals through Cardinal Cardozo, who turns 80 on 10/10/24. On that day in 2 years, “Francis College Cardinals” shall be 77%. If Francis retires in 4 years when he turns 90 on, then he shall have appointed 83% of the College. Seven Cardinals were born before 1960; new Cardinal Marengo is only 47. They shall elect 2 successor “Francis Popes” during their lifetime, who shall appoint “Francis Cardinals” and “Francis Bishops,” who shall appoint “Francis Heads” of Seminaries, who shall appoint “Francis faculty,” who shall teach seminarians to become “Francis priests.”
Regarding Francis and US Bishops, he has appointed 132 US Bishops younger than age 75, which is the age when they no longer can vote in the UCCB. There currently are 140 US Bishops younger than age 75, who were appointed before Francis. 12 of them are age 74, including Burke, and from large Diocese like Brooklyn, Newark and Philadelphia. 18 of them are age 73, including Neumann, DiNardo and Salazar, and from large dioceses like Los Angeles, Galveston-Houston and New Orleans. Of the 272 US Bishops younger than age 75, Francis’ current 132 Bishops shall become the majority 137 UCCB voting Bishops when Bishop Fitzgerald turns 75 on May 23. Francis has appointed 7 US Bishops ages 46 – 50; and 23 US Bishops ages 51-55. Expect future appointments of similar young Bishops, who shall vote for 20-25 years in the UCCB. Therefore, the days of the control of the USCCB by conservative Bishops are numbered. That shall become most evident in the 2024 UCCB elections when all of the now 30 age 73 and 74 Bishops appointed before Francis shall have turned age 75 and no longer shall be able to vote. These US “Francis Bishops” shall appoint “Francis Heads” of Seminaries, who shall appoint “Francis faculty,” who shall teach seminarians to become “Francis priests.”
There is nothing you can do. You “dont have the numbers, and the House always wins.”
How sweet it is.
All very cute, this numbers game, unless those Francis cardinals who are also international–and possibly not toadies to Western ideologies–vote prudently and wisely in the next conclave. And maybe well before Pope Francis is 90.
The irony of it all! These so-called “Francis cardinals.” The Church is still guided by the Holy Spirit, and the cardinals always have the option of exercising their free will in a graced and conforming direction. God writes straight with crooked lines. Waiting to see “how sweet it is…”
You’ve already cut, pasted, and posted this exact same drivel on several different articles on this site in the past. Please provide all of us with an explanation for this obvious trolling behavior. Who’s paying you to troll CWR?
Not paid to debate debatable comments by others, nor for articles. It’s also apparent that readers do not read everything in these threads and, therefore, that repetition is not out of place.
Not cut and paste. Not trolling. And as for drivel, I actually look for and find your stuff worth reading; try harder to not erode your credibility.
P: I wasn’t referring to your post. I was responding to the Anna Amoz post above, which I have seen here at CWR on several occasions. Sorry if that replied under your post – that was not my intent.
“There is nothing you can do. You ‘dont have the numbers, and the House always wins.’ How sweet it is.”
This post is fantasy at best. First, it assumes that the cardinals and bishops Pope Francis has appointed are all 100% aligned with him ideologically. Nothing could be further from the truth. Secondly, it ignores the history of the Catholic Church. We’ve experienced wild swings in the papacy in the past; there’s no reason the pendulum will not swing back in the opposite direction. Pope Formosus was dug up by Stephen VI, and his corpse was thrown in the river, with all his acts being reversed and Stephen declaring him an antipope. Then Stephen’s successor reversed Stephen. Happens all the time. In our day, we went from Pope Ratzinger to Pope Francis. It can swing back again.
Regarding “Francis priests,” one wonders which planet you inhabit. Many young priests that are coming up through the ranks, in the U.S. and abroad, are ideologically more “conservative” than Pope Francis and will be here long after he is gone. The majority of men who are of the same mindset as the pope don’t become priests because they don’t practice the Faith. Many people who practice the Faith are not of the same thinking as Pope Francis, and they are the ones having children, not the others. It is Pope Francis and his allies who, in a few short years, won’t have the numbers, as they have not been able to produce vocations. Traditional Catholic families will be producing vocations and outlast and outnumber people like you and people like the German bishops. How sweet it is.
What you are not accounting for is the people in the pews. At this time they are mostly old ( and generally conservative leaning). They are mostly not fans of Francis. It would appear younger, LIBERAL ( Francis-type) folk have no use for religion as a group and most are not attending church at all. Nor, of course, are they supporting the church financially. ( These are often the same folk who hate America too.) So, when the older faithful die, they will take their wallets with them. This will necessarily result in a shrinking church. Possibly with many Cardinals to standing around looking for people to order about or more Latin Masses to cancel, but they will be frustrated in that attempt. They will be the proverbial “empty gong”. Because the believers will either be mostly dead or will have voted with their feet and left the church. Interestingly, at the same time these aged liberals are taking power, what few new priests come into the church are now and likely will remain statistically leaning CONSERVATIVE. At least, they are in the US. Eventually the aged liberals will inevitably die, and with any luck and the blessing of the Holy Spirit, the church will be able to recapture its effectiveness and relevance with a new generation of believers. Side note: the recent injury of a 24 year old football player and the immediate prayers for his recovery which his serious injury elicited, was an interesting study in the reality that not everyone believes “God is dead” liberal tripe. Most REAL Catholics prefer to attend church , but that being said, one can pray anywhere.
Dear Anna Amoz:
Are you the discoverer of the anti-biotic of the same name (AMOZ)?
God bless you,
Brian Young
thanks for your insights.
But then there’s still the question internal to whatever is left (meaning intact!) of the Church today…a question apparently beyond the elementary competence of papal ghost writers…
How to do real listening, not only post-tradition talking and “walking together”?
How to be enlivened by the Holy Spirit, not eclipsing the Deposit of Faith?
How to evangelize fully, not being assimilated generically into the world?
How to at least govern, not redefining both governance and morality?
How to develop deeply, not double-speaking into a bogus “paradigm shift”?
How to respond creatively, faithfully and clearly to the dubia, not shelving Veritatis Splendor?
How to do a synodal Church, not a cross-dressed churchy synodality?
Cross culturally, as with the Chinese emperor who was asked how he would restore his kingdom: “I would restore the meaning of words!”…
Not a tautological “synod on synodality”!
Not so. At least, I recall nothing, and a spot check of past postings also shows nothing.
I think what you recall is something more like the following (from 5-02-22)—another use of contrasts, which I have reworded nine times (Lord have mercy!) in the past four years, to make a point or four…
“We are told, for example, that ‘realities are more important than ideas.’ That statement can be interpreted variously…”We are also told that this statement is anointed as a “principle” (Evangelii Gaudium, 2013), and that there are three other like principles, all of which lend themselves to avoidable misunderstanding:
“First, when is “realities are more important than ideas [concepts?]” at risk of NOMINALISM (exemptions from undenied moral norms)?
Then, when is “time is greater than space” at risk of HISTORICISM (the “paradigm shift”)?
Also, when is “unity prevails over conflict” at risk of CLERICALISM (the synodal triad of Marx, Bats-sing and Hollerich)?
And, when is “the whole is greater than the part” at risk of GLOBALISM (e.g., the Fundamental Option, Proportionalism/Consequentialism)?
“The difficult fit is how to leaven increasingly disrupted life on the street with revealed and undiluted truth? How to be equally steadfast in both mercy and dogmatic truth?”
You already posted this in a different article.
all this may be true, but it wil not affect the salvation of those believe the words of Jeus recorded in the Gospels and the teaches of Church for 2000 years. God wills the salvation of all souls and provides the guidance of the Holy Spirit for those have the humility to listen. No can knowingly ignore Holy Scripture, the Church Father, the Councils, and the Teaching Magisterium of the Church will not be saved unless they repent.
Dear Steven:
“EWTN’s ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing’ video is penetrating yet, somewhat confusing.
It solidifies the importance of Jesus Christ and His work and word. When we have Jesus the rest is iinconsequential. To be of use to our fellow man is to have reliance and assurance in Jesus. The film underscored this precept
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Thank you for this reference and your devotion to understanding and praising God.
Yours in Christ,
Brian
As intensified the drawing of final authority to himself, as diluted will become the legitimate Apostolic authority of bishops in Rome. Presumably this is the model for dioceses throughout the world.
“Pope Francis has made it clear that he is in charge of everything” (Altieri). Papal vicar for the diocese of Rome De Donatis knows this. What he will also know is that this strategy signals the dissipation of unity within a Christ instituted
ecclesial schemata beginning with shared Apostolic authority. A universal Church crumbling into disunity no longer a Church [moreso than Protestant denominations], rather disparate churches each diocese a synodal listening body creating its own rules [already in effect when the CDF prefect with Francis’ impetus determined that diocesan bishops be permitted to formulate their own policy on communion for pro abortion politicians] each diocese its own magisterium. A design engineered to effectively render the word Catholic, or universal irrelevant.
Francis said early on he envisioned a converse pyramid ⛛ Church, authority welling upward from the body, which theoretically is Synodality, the plebeian, Spirit guided adjustment of revelation to existential [concrete] realities. Rather than top down irreducible precepts which do not address the reality on the ground.
St Thomas Aquinas offers the resolution to Francis’ moral dilemma with a radical approach [misunderstood by ethicists to this day] of morality down to earth grounded in deliberation of the conditions of the act to be done, a first principle. Not a casuistic downward application of a universal moral principle to on the ground particulars.
St Gregory Nazianzen [390 AD] supplements this with Synderesis [recognized by Aquinas in the Summa], the consequent ‘upward’ assessment of the singular principle, the act to be done with the correct universal. Although it is the apprehension of the singular principle, the act to be done that determines the good of the act. Apprehension by the intellect facilitated by the Natural Law Within.
And this correct understanding of moral judgment is realized in the exclusive faith principle that revelation is no longer in prophecy from below rather from above, in its fullness, in the Person of Christ, and that his authority is delegated vicariously not absolutely.
… but does not ever say what synodality is or what the “synodal style” of governance for which he calls in the document should be.
See entry for dictatorship.
From someone looking on from the outside, this seems like a pretty normal exercise of executive power. As I understand it, he has the right to do this in Rome; it’s just that it might not be exercised quite so directly most of the time.
It might not be the best of ideas to have even more meetings and reporting structures, since Pope Francis is getting on, but perhaps he got tired of all the rumours about his imminent retirement and decided to make a point that, yes, he’s still here and not going anywhere right now, despite what some might prefer?
“… and decided to make a point that, yes, he’s still here and not going anywhere right now…”
Sounds like mature, responsible leadership, without doubt.
Perhaps? If people start obsessing over who comes next and he ends up a “lame-duck pope” (to borrow a term from the USA) it could prevent him from further enacting his supposedly liberal agenda.
There are likely other ways to do it, but every leader has their own management style. Perhaps he’s also concerned that the existing setup led to poor outcomes in some cases.
Was ducking the dubia simply a “management style”? Or rather lame? A lame duck.
I don’t think he ducked them. They didn’t have anything relevant to offer, so he ignored them. Lots of people do that. Avoids getting dragged down rabbit holes.
Todd Flowerday ….
You mean to accept that we are not in a rabbit hole. Apparently you would be saying as well, that the dubia and other questions are closed and have no point or further merit.
Below, January 11, 2023 at 6:26 am, you outline certain areas of “progress” and could be implying they are all that matter, qui vivra verra, after all.
“You mean to accept that we are not in a rabbit hole.”
Some of us are.
“Apparently you would be saying as well, that the dubia and other questions are closed and have no point or further merit.”
I think a lot of commentators have addressed the dubia material and have dismissed them. I suspect the cardinals and their supporters would have preferred PF engage them directly. Well, suppose I write to one of the dubia cardinals. Would they be dodging me if they declined to address my criticisms? IS that how it works?
I think PF let others do his dismantling. I’m good with that. I have my own critique of the dubia; should you and I discuss that?
Discuss inside the rabbit holes or outside? To do what more assemblaging-dismantling-non-dismantling type thingys? You answered the dubia to your method but you expect others to dodge you for it?
Not sure what you mean here, Elias. Much is up for discussion, and I for one welcome it. Bring it on.
One example: the Orthodox handle divorce and second marriages differently from Rome and permit Communion. We hold all Orthodox sacraments as valid. If a door is open for certain situations discerned with a bishop or pastor, why not permit a person abandoned in a first marriage to remarry without that artificial stigma of adultery? (Which really does not apply.) To my awareness Cdl Burke has not offered a more detailed commentary or refutation on other ways of handling this. It’s almost as if he’s bought wholesale into the concept of no-fault divorce through a subsidiary: all-fault divorce.
In sum, I think the dubia presented by these cardinals don’t hold up. But if Carl wants me to present my points, he can ask me to write an article or 5.
Anna N Amoz, calumny goes all the way to mortal sin. It’s not alleviated by boasting and irony, it is made worse. A relish for such things is indicating a set purpose -guilt; but also an underlying cynicism that again comes into sin.
It seems like some little progress has been made under nearly a decade of Pope Francis. We don’t have criminals like Maciel raising money hand over foot for JP2. Not to mention a quarter century of bishops vetted for comments on women’s ordination, but somehow the Congregation of Bishops tripped up on sex with women and children. And B16, who seemed to figure Ted McC’s retirement settled the issue. It’s not a surprise ex-Cdl O’Brien was such a blow. Doctrinal orthodoxy, check. But a big Matthew 21:28-32 miss.
Pope Francis is far from perfect, and he has his own blind spots with personnel, not unlike his two predecessors. At least he’s moving a few things on fronts that matter to most of the rest of the Church. And in cases of extreme ex-clergy like Frank Pavone and Ted McC, they are repositioned where they belong.
Conservative and not-too-conservative popes, meh. Who cares? And cardinals, likewise. Just do your job with the Congregation of Bishops and limit the cult of celebrity in the priesthood and we’ll all be on better footing. If synodality moves us in that direction, I can’t see why we’re not all in favor.
Of the varied imperfections of JP II, B16 and now Francis I, you summarize, “If synodality moves us in that direction [away from the cult of celebrity], I can’t see why we’re not all in favor.” Also thinking of their similarities, all three were/are deeply and well-influenced by Luigi Giussani, founder of “Communion and Liberation.”
Would like to hear your thoughts on whether synodality–and its liberating focus on “encounter” and true “companionship” (aka now “fraternity”, and “walking together”?)–is sabotaged by a procedural disconnect between past and present? The difference between personal celebrity and the Church’s interwoven magisterium….About which, Giussani also said this:
“A writer of the Samizdat, that is, of underground Soviet literature, says ‘We well know the falseness of all revolutions lies in the fact that they are strong and concrete in condemning and destroying, but are absolutely weak and abstract in building and creating’. They are, that is, impotent, impotent before the future, because they have burned all their bridges with the past [the magisterium?] and in doing so refuse to see the past as the cohesive tissue [a doctrinally acquired immune system?] of that very present that they hold so dear. Because even as the human person is one, so too history is one, and the force of the present undertaking lies in all that has preceded it” (Giussani, “The Religious Sense,” Ignatius, 1990).
So, largely agreeing with you about celebrity, but also lamenting the burned bridges; and suggesting, therefore, that the dubia was not “irrelevant” (as you propose, further above).
“Would like to hear your thoughts on whether synodality is sabotaged by a procedural disconnect between past and present?”
Good question. I think conservative and trad-leaning Catholics are bothered by the shift in culture. It might make some less willing to engage in the synod process. In that sense the sabotage is from below.
That being said, Rome is but one of a few thousand dioceses. Other dioceses will find fruit or they will struggle depending on the local leadership. If the political desire to see PF fail stretches into some dioceses and especially their bishops, then certain voices will be lost. Other dioceses will forge ahead. Some places and individuals will choose to stay behind.
My own sense is that the moment for synodality was just after Evangelii Nuntiandi. JP2 had the right spirit, but he and his advisors lacked the methodology or the will to find something new. B16 inherited a Church that had wandered a bit off the optimal path. The 1978-2013 era expended a lot of energy on political things, the so-called dictatorship of relativism, the role of women, the smaller purer church, and ultimately, mismanagement by most bishops (it seems).
Fifty years on, we’ve lost a lot of the post-conciliar energy. And to be sure, the issues of managing sex predators, uppity women, fluid commitments to reason–these are all important. But mission has to be number one. It wasn’t. The prior two popes didn’t see it, and all the WYD feel-good events didn’t really address the challenge.
So I have hope with synodality. Critics look like they’ve channeled Luke 15:28-32. That’s not a winning formula.
Todd, thank you for your thoughtful remarks. I agree especially on Pope Paul VI’s Evangelii Nuntiandi. My response here comes in three parts:
FIRST, as for evangelization, let’s give credit for St. John Paul II for his follow-up and personal evangelization in 129 countries…
And for his encyclicals. (Even Pope Francis’ Laudato si is an extended footnote to part of Centesimus Annus, 1991, nn. 36-39). Not to mention St. John Paul II’s key role in dismantling the Soviet Empire—no “provisional agreement” there, although the circumstances were riper.
SECOND, as for the sabotage of synodality–coming from “the bottom” as you say…
But not only, since we have timely signaling—exploitable photo-ops with poster-child Fr. James Martin, and the tutelage of synodal kingpin Cardinal Hollerich whose endgame is to upend (so to speak!) the Catechism on matters of sexual morality. So—from above—several drops of cyanide into the synodal punch bowl, as we are groomed into a pastorally social-scientific and plebiscite (c)hurch.
THIRD, back to my original point, that burning bridges–and confusion of what it means to be “ahead” or “behind”–is actually a betrayal of the future…
Agreed, no one is accountable to respond to you (or me) regarding the dubia. However, the living Church (still breathing?) is accountable to itself in the Deposit of Faith, and the Magisterium of which Veritatis Splendor (VC) is explicitly an integral part—and central to the dubia:
“This is the first time, in fact, that the Magisterium of the Church has set forth in detail the fundamental elements of this [‘moral’] teaching and presented the principles [e.g., moral absolutes] for the pastoral discernment necessary in practical and cultural situations which are complex and even crucial” (VS, n. 115). AND “The Church is no way [!] the author or the arbiter of this [‘moral’] norm” (VS, n. 95).
How soon we forget, or choose not to remember while “walking together.”
Likewise on yours, Peter.
Yes, I think JP2’s efforts in dozens of countries were a fine example. But it never moved beyond the pope to the bishops and the laity, not in any large-scale effort. His writings, yes, certainly, and I’ve studied some of those in detail on my own site.
I think the struggle was to move past the celebrity aspect of his papacy. He was undeniably a charismatic figure, larger than life. In some ways, that was a hindrance.
I think Fr Martin’s detractors miss his purpose. He wants to gather/attract/drag people into the Church. Another commentator I read some years ago asked where a person steeped in modern culture is likely to have a come-to-Jesus moment: in nightclubs, bars, arenas, and parades? Or in church? I don’t find Fr Martin nearly as bothersome as some of the people at CWR do.
Some might say Veritatis Splendor is a part of the deposit. If, in its implementation, it damages the qualities of accompaniment and mercy, perhaps the people using it as a tool have blundered. VS is a reference work. Valuable, yes. But elements of it are particular to its time, and perhaps today a different implementation is needed.
Todd: My Gawd, I think what we have here at CWR is a civil exchange of possibly different ideas about reality. Wonderful! Now, to continue:
Is it really accurate to assert that “elements of [Veritatis Splendor, VS] are particular to its time…”? The counterpoint would be that this predisposition lends itself to historicism, that affirmations of permanent things are themselves only time-bound and culture-bound.
What about the affirmation in Veritatis Splendor that this mindset is a deception, coming in the form of a schizophrenic (my word) nod to doctrinal truths, surely, but then combined with contradictory “pastoral” approaches? Here are two relevant citations from the Magisterium, and then a related link:
FIRST, “Each of us knows how important is the teaching which represents the central theme of this encyclical and which today is being restated with the authority of the Successor of Peter. Each of us can see the seriousness of what is involved, not only for individuals but also for the whole of society, with the REAFFIRMATION OF THE UNIVERSALITY AND IMMUTABILITY OF THE MORAL COMMANDMENTS [italics], particularly those which prohibit always and without exception INTRINSICALLY EVIL ACTS [italics]” (VS, n. 115).
SECOND, “A SEPARATION [caps added] or even an opposition, is thus established in some cases between the teaching of the precept, which is valid and general, and the norm of the individual conscience, which would in fact make the final decision [no longer a ‘moral judgment’!] about what is good and what is evil. On this basis, an attempt is made to legitimize so-called ‘pastoral’ solutions contrary to the teaching of the Magisterium, and to justify a ‘creative’ hermeneutic according to which the moral conscience is in no way obliged, in every case, by a particular negative precept [thou shalt not!]” (VS, n. 56).
THIRD, now, in the promised link, I propose, or ask, or possibly only imagine that even the Nicene Creed itself might be cross-dressed as only a creature of the moment, that such revealed and articulated dogmatic messages of Ultimate Reality are themselves essentially time-bound, and also can now be obsolesced by “a different implementation” under plebiscite synodality–that now “the process is (!) the message”: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/category/the-dispatch/
What are we to think about what C.S. Lewis labeled as “chronological snobbery,” even in a red hat? Are we to steadfastly walk the talk, or only talk the walk?
I suppose my aversion to the “adultery” charge on divorce and remarriage (it was the 4th dubium, I think, and strikes me as dismissive or even ignorant of CCC 2380) is based partly on witnessing the experience of people who have made errors in marriage, especially outside of the Catholic Church. Each of my parents was an example. In my mother’s case more directly, it blocked her from ever becoming Catholic, despite a long association with the parish where my siblings and I were baptized. She admitted to me decades later in her 80s she was married, very briefly, to a man before my dad.
To be sure, marrying to escape rural poverty at the end of the Great Depression is a poverty itself, even for a Baptist. But what would the dubia cardinal have us do years later when my parents were engaged in a marriage that lasted fifty years? Before I was born, my parents wanted to adopt a Catholic girl whom they fostered. It was denied, despite promises of church attendance and Catholic school enrollment. Decades later, a conversation between my “foster sister,” in her 40s, and me in my 20s, remarking how the Catholic girl ended as a fundamentalist Protestant, and the son of Protestant parents landed as a Roman Catholic. And wouldn’t the Catholic Charities priest be scratching his head over how that happened. I suspect the former bishop of LaCrosse too.
A subjective story, I know. But it illustrates the problem with theologians and canon lawyers having the last word in every situation. Under JP2, there was little enough trust (and perhaps training too) for clergy to work with couples to make thoughtful, prayerful discernments on situations that those cardinals (cruelly, I think) label as “adultery.” Looking at the Gospels, we are not yet advocating the removal of hands, or eyes, or other organs to comply with the Lord’s particular preaching aimed at particular people in a certain time and place.
I think people can discover personal regret, fault to the point of serious sin, and, with a spiritual guide, move forward in the good graces of the sacramental life. Now, to be clear, I don’t need to advocate for that for myself, or for any particular person. My parents are dead now. I’d also dismiss the method of the priest who had his couples for RCIA fill out the form for a declaration of nullity, file it in his desk, and bring it out six months later, telling his charges they were good to go for Easter.
Bottom line: I have no problem with Pope Francis leaving things rather open to a local interpretation. But y’all knew that before I typed it.
May I ask, why did you read the rather lengthy post, and then take the time to respond to it? Perhaps it would be better if you did just what you suggest we all do.
Todd Flowerday, responding to your post January 12, 2023 at 1:08 pm, above, to mine; but using this new space.
Yes I could see you are prompting discussion. Pope Francis calls it dialogue and walking and he stresses on a need for invitings and promptings.
Your comments have distracting clutter in them, for eg., what the Orthodox do is unquestionable, or, nullity is for the removal of the stigma of adultery.
Or, as if Amoris “opinion” trumps dubia “opinion”, that it happened already and it’s time to move on because it’s worthily settled; and those who feel settled with it have respectable positions that is automatic and must get respect.
What you say about Cardinal Burke is truly confused and I think quite wrong.
The dubia contain and are rooted in foundational and perennial Church teachings that can never be removed and that are -as well- part of the pastoral care in the different dimensions of the Church:
a) they have a universal instructional and discernment authenticity/authority
b) they are not dissolved or made impotent or irrelevant, by “exceptional situations” and
c) “exceptional situations” do not escape them because “exceptions are in process/at work”.
There is another aspect to this. Amoris would (seem to) be assuming that the people it envisages who need exceptional care, can be spared these teachings for the time being, for compassion and mercy’s sake.
First, Amoris does not admit when and how the teachings provide the explanation and insights where the people got into trouble in the first place; or, why and how the teachings are their salvation.
Second, to start with, Amoris remains ambiguous about the essential teachings, deferring instead to spending a lot of time reviewing the supposed human -humanistic- nature of familial love. There appears to be an idea that this human -humanistic- love was sacramental from Adam/Genesis.
Third, the silence of Pope Francis is fueling the ambiguities.
Fourth, Pope Francis has specifically endorsed the Argentinian and Maltese on each of their “practices” but without reconciling the dichotomies just described or those falling between their separate practices.
Overall, what I outline works and holds true both inside and outside the rabbit holes, if that metaphor has any real bearing.
Thank you, Elias.
“Your comments have distracting clutter in them, for eg., what the Orthodox do is unquestionable, or, nullity is for the removal of the stigma of adultery.”
Obviously, I disagree. I’m pointing out in this instance that VS doesn’t describe the only valid sacramental system. Adultery, as a mortal sin, requires the intent of the person committing it. It doesn’t seem applicable in all cases of divorce.
“The dubia contain and are rooted in foundational and perennial Church teachings that can never be removed …”
I didn’t address teaching as much as promote a more careful and discerning pastoral practice.
“Amoris does not admit when and how the teachings provide the explanation and insights where the people got into trouble in the first place …”
Did it have to do so? It doesn’t mention Real Presence either. But one would be hard pressed to make a case that PF denies this. People get into trouble for all sorts of reasons. They are baptized, possibly not in a Catholic Church, but never catechized. The spouse was abusive. There was drug use. The marriage was forced by an outside party. There was a medical condition before or during the marriage. I would stress a carefully formed pastor is better placed than a cardinal or even a pope who is long removed from pastoral ministry.
” … the silence of Pope Francis is fueling the ambiguities.”
He didn’t address the cardinals personally. Mmm. Nor in public. Frustrating, but it doesn’t change what anybody wrote. More accurate to say he didn’t offer public dialogue with the cardinals, only one of whom was currently serving as a pastor, and Meisner was already retired. It seems PF is more interested in dialogue with pastors who have real problems, not theoretical ones.
We know every pope has detractors, and it seems all of those popes were selective in the persons with whom they dialogued.
You are arguing for divorce but in a reformulation.
God prohibits divorce and rejects it in all forms.
That is not the entirety of the sacramental tradition of the Church, East and West
When you are at odds with the truth you are apt to miss and/or spoil the entirety of everything in faith and outside of faith.
This applies whether or not you do it in the name of your parents and/or of rabbit holes. You get sacrament, tradition and life, wrong.
Even should you not listen. Terrible.
You have appropriated all the new technique: this split from that and everything stays in process with things said now not said earlier.
“… you are apt to miss and/or spoil the entirety of everything in faith and outside of faith.”
You are describing the human condition. People who wrap themselves in the mantle of truth and orthodoxy are as likely to give the faith a bad reputation.
Otherwise, you are missing the point.
You say it. And you impose the line. You contradict yourself.
Indeed, indeed, how sweet it is! But not for the reason you folks are thinking/hoping. Our Lord promised that the very gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. It will prevail!
During the time the Church was considering the issue of the Immaculate Conception, a large group of theologians (many, Dominicans) were completely against, after all, for example (and as many Protestants have said for centuries), why would she call God her Savior, he she were sinless. Well, as a Franciscan theologian explained, there are two ways to save a person from a pit: (1) prevent the person from falling into the pit, (2) or take the person out of the pit after falling into it. In the case of our Mother, God prevented her from falling into sin; that is how He saved her.
It is purely my speculation, but I believe, that with Mary as the model of the Church, and the personification of the Church, Christ will do the same for His Church, as God did for His mother: prevent her from falling into the pit.
To many, it may seem as if the Church is in the pit already, or at least has a foot in it. I reply to such with a reminder of the three Hebrew teenagers in the book of Daniel: they were thrown into the fiery pit, but came out without so much as the smell of smoke on them.
Thus, with so much turmoil in the Church – including a pope who seems embarrassed to be Catholic, and seemingly bent (hell bent, you could say) on over turning two millennia of Church teaching – people are fearful about the future of the Church. As Christ said many times, as Pope St John Paul the Great said at the beginning of his pontificate: Fear not! Christ still reigns, Christ still loves His Church, Christ still protects His Church.
And if the wounds the Bride is suffering cause you to worry, worry not! Rarely are the times the winner of a combat sport won unscathed. Rarely has the winner of a winning team won without some members being injured – some even carted off. Christ promised that His Church would prevail, but he did not promise that His Church would prevail uninjured.
So, what are we to do? Be Catholic! Happily and joyfully! If I may borrow from St Paul: Rejoice! I say, again, Rejoice. If I may borrow from St Peter, our first pope: Rejoice, for what is happening is nothing new! It is just a refining our faith. Therefore, rejoice and be glad. If I may borrow one last time, and this time from Habbakkuk, (and re-word for our situation): even if there be nobody in the pews, even if there be nobody in seminary, even the would I believe, even then would I rejoice!
Our Lord still reigns! Our Lord still loves and guides His Church! Be joyful!
There is no joy in divorce and divorce has no part in the Church’s commission.
Well…if this is an example of “synodality” then I guess the concept it closer to autocracy.
The new Catholic Bureaucratic equivalent of “Catch 22”.