Aboard the papal plane, Mar 8, 2021 / 03:00 pm (CNA).- Please read below for CNA’s full transcript of Pope Francis’ in-flight press conference from Baghdad, Iraq, to Rome, Italy on March 8, 2021.
Pope Francis: First of all, thank you for your work, your company, your fatigue. Then, today is Women’s Day. Congratulations to the women. Women’s Day. But they were saying why is there no Men’s Day? Even when [I was] in the meeting with the wife of the president. I said it was because us men are always celebrated and we want to celebrate women. And the wife of the president spoke well about women, she told me lovely things today, about that strength that women have to carry forward life, history, the family, many things. Congratulations to everyone. And third, today is the birthday of the COPE journalist. Or the other day. Where are you?
Matteo Bruni, Holy See press office director: It was yesterday.
Pope Francis: Best wishes and we should celebrate it, right? We will see how we can [do it] here. Very well. Now, the word is yours.
Bruni: The first question comes from the Arabic world: Imad Atrach of Sky News Arabia.
Imad Abdul Karim Atrach (Sky News Arabia): Holiness, two years ago in Abu Dhabi there was the meeting with the Imam al-Tayyeb of al-Azhar and the signing of the document on human fraternity. Three days ago you met with al-Sistani. Are you thinking to something similar with the Shiite side of Islam? And then a second thing about Lebanon, which St. John Paul II said is more than a country, it is a message. This message, unfortunately, as a Lebanese, I tell you that this message is now disappearing. Can we think a future visit by you to Lebanon is imminent?
Pope Francis: The Abu Dhabi document of February 4 was prepared with the grand imam in secret during six months, praying, reflecting, correcting the text. It was, I will say, a little assuming but take it as a presumption, a first step of what you ask me about.
Let’s say that this [Ed. meeting with al-Sistani] would be the second [step] and there will be others. It is important, the journey of fraternity. Then, the two documents. The Abu Dhabi one created a concern for fraternity in me, Fratelli tutti came out, which has given a lot. We must… both documents must be studied because they go in the same direction, they are seeking fraternity.
Ayatollah al-Sistani has a phrase which I expect to remember well. Every man… men are either brothers for religion or equals for creation. And fraternity is equality, but beneath equality we cannot go. I believe it is also a cultural path.
We Christians think about the Thirty Years’ War. The night of St. Bartholomew [Ed. St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre], to give an example. Think about this. How the mentality has changed among us, because our faith makes us discover that this is it: the revelation of Jesus is love, charity, and it leads us to this. But how many centuries [will it take] to implement it? This is an important thing, human fraternity. That as men we are all brothers and we must move forward with other religions.
The [Second] Vatican Council took a big step forward in [interreligious dialogue], also the later constitution, the council for Christian unity, and the council for religious dialogue — Cardinal Ayuso accompanies us today — and you are human, you are a child of God and you are my brother, period. This would be the biggest indication. And many times you have to take risks to take this step. You know that there are some critics who [say] “the pope is not courageous, he is an idiot who is taking steps against Catholic doctrine, which is a heretical step.” There are risks. But these decisions are always made in prayer, in dialogue, asking for advice, in reflection. They are not a whim and they are also the line that the [Second Vatican] Council has taught us. This is his first question.
The second: Lebanon is a message. Lebanon is suffering. Lebanon is more than a balance. It has the weakness of the diversity which some are still not reconciled to, but it has the strength of the great people reconciled like the fortress of the cedars. Patriarch Rai asked me to please make a stop in Beirut on this trip, but it seemed somewhat too little to me: A crumb in front of a problem in a country that suffers like Lebanon. I wrote a letter and promised to make a trip to Lebanon. But Lebanon at the moment is in crisis, but in crisis — I do not want to offend — but in a crisis of life. Lebanon is so generous in welcoming refugees. This is a second trip.
Bruni: Thank you, Your Holiness. The second question comes from Johannes Neudecker of the German news agency Dpa.
Johannes Neudecker (Deutsche Presse-Agentur): Thank you, Holy Father. My question is also about the meeting with al-Sistani. In what measure was the meeting with al-Sistani also a message to the religious leaders of Iran?
Pope Francis: I believe it was a universal message. I felt the duty of this pilgrimage of faith and penance to go and find a great man, a wise man, a man of God. And just listening to him you perceived this. And speaking of messages, I will say: It is a message for everyone, it is a message for everyone. And he is a person who has that wisdom and also prudence… he told me that for 10 years, “I do not receive people who come to visit me with also other political or cultural aims, no… only for religious [purposes].” And he was very respectful, very respectful in the meeting. I felt very honored; he never gets up even to greet people. He got up to greet me twice. A humble and wise man. This meeting did my soul good. He is a light. These wisemen are everywhere because God’s wisdom has been spread all over the world.
It also happens the same with the saints, who are not only those who are on the altars, they are the everyday saints, the ones I call “next-door saints.” Men and women who live their faith, whatever it may be, with coherence. Who live human values with coherence, fraternity with coherence. I believe that we should discover these people, highlight them, because there are so many examples. When there are scandals in the Church, many, this does not help, but we show the people seeking the path of fraternity. The saints next door. And we will find the people of our family, for sure. For sure a few grandpas, a few grandmas.
Eva Fernandez (Radio COPE): Holy Father, it is great to resume the press conferences again. It is very good. My apologies, but my colleagues have asked me to ask this question in Spanish.
[In Spanish] During these days your trip to Iraq has had a great impact throughout the world. Do you think that this could be the trip of your pontificate? And also, it has been said that it was the most dangerous. Have you been afraid at some point during this trip? And soon we will return to travel and you, who are about to complete the eighth year of your pontificate, do you still think it will be a short [pontificate]? And the big question always for the Holy Father, will you ever return to Argentina? Will Spain still have hope that one day the pope will visit?
Pope Francis: Thank you, Eva, and I made you celebrate your birthday twice — once in advance and another belated.
I start with the last question, which is a question that I understand. It is because of that book by my friend, the journalist and doctor, Nelson Castro. He wrote a book on [the history of] presidents’ illnesses, and I once told him, already in Rome, “But you have to do one on the diseases of the popes because it will be interesting to know the health issues of the popes — at least of some who are more recent.”
He started [writing] again, and he interviewed me. The book came out. They tell me it is good, but I have not seen it. But he asked me a question: “If you resign” — well, if I will die or if I will resign — “If you resign, will you return to Argentina or will you stay here?”
I said: “I will not go back to Argentina.” This is what I have said, but I will stay here in my diocese. But in that case, this goes together with the question: When will I visit Argentina? And why have I not gone there? I always answer a little ironically: “I spent 76 years in Argentina, that’s enough, isn’t it?”
But there is one thing. I do not know why, but it has not been said. A trip to Argentina was planned for November 2017 and work began. It was Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay. This was at the end of November. But then at that time there was an election campaign happening in Chile because on that day in December the successor of Michelle Bachelet was elected. I had to go before the government changed, I could not go [further].
So let us do this: Go to Chile in January. And then in January it was not possible to go to Argentina and Uruguay because January is like our August here, it is July and August in both countries. Thinking about it, the suggestion was made: Why not include Peru, because Peru was bypassed during the trip to Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay, and remained apart. And from this was born the January trip between Chile and Peru.
But this is what I want to say so that you do not create fantasies of “patriaphobia.” When there are opportunities, it must be done, right? Because there is Argentina and Uruguay and the south of Brazil, which are a very great cultural composition.
About my travels: I make a decision about my trips by listening. The invitations are many. I listen to the advice of the counselors and also to the people. Sometimes someone comes and says: What do you think? Should I go or not? And it is good for me to listen. And this helps me to make the decision later.
I listen to the counselors and in the end I pray. I pray and I think a lot. I have reflected a lot about some trips, and then the decision comes from within. It is almost spontaneous, but like a ripe fruit. It is a long way, isn’t it? Some are more difficult, some are easier, and the decision about this trip comes early.
The first invitation of the ambassador, first, that pediatrician doctor who was the ambassador of Iraq, very good. She persisted. And then came the ambassador to Italy who is a woman of battle. Then the new ambassador to the Vatican came and fought. Soon the president came. All these things stayed with me.
But there is one thing behind my decision that I would like to mention. One of you gave me a Spanish edition [of the book] “The Last Girl.” I have read it in Italian, then I gave it to Elisabetta Piqué to read. Did you read it? More or less it is the story of the Yazidis. And Nadia Murad tells about terrifying things. I recommend that you read it. In some places it may seem heavy, but for me this was the trasfondo of God, the underlying reason for my decision. That book worked inside me. And also when I listened to Nadia who came to tell me terrible things. Then, with the book… All these things together made the decision; thinking about all the many issues. But finally the decision came and I took it.
And, about the eighth year of my pontificate. Should I do this? [He crosses his fingers.] I do not know if my travel will slow down or not. I only confess that on this trip I felt much more tired than on the others. The 84 [years] do not come alone, it is a consequence. But we will see.
Now I will have to go to Hungary for the final Mass of the Eucharistic Congress, not a visit to the country, but just for the Mass. But Budapest is a two-hour drive from Bratislava, why not make a visit to Slovakia? I do not know. That is how they are thinking. Excuse me. Thank you.
Bruni: Thank you, Eva. Now the next question is from Chico Harlan of the Washington Post.
Chico Harlan (Washington Post): Thank you, Holy Father. I will ask my question in English with the help of Matteo. [In English] This trip obviously had extraordinary meaning for the people who got to see you, but it did also lead to events that caused conditions conducive to spreading the virus. In particular, unvaccinated people packed together singing. So as you weigh the trip, the thought that went into it and what it will mean, do you worry that the people who came to see you could also get sick or even die. Can you explain that reflection and calculation. Thank you.
Pope Francis: As I said recently, the trips are cooked over time in my conscience. And this is one of the [thoughts] that came to me most, “maybe, maybe.” I thought a lot, I prayed a lot about this. And in the end I freely made the decision. But that came from within. I said: “The one who allows me to decide this way will look after the people.” And so I made the decision like this but after prayer and after awareness of the risks, after all.
Bruni: The next question comes from Philippine de Saint-Pierre of the French press.
Philippine de Saint-Pierre (KTO): Your Holiness, we have seen the courage and dynamism of Iraqi Christians. We have also seen the challenges they face: the threat of Islamist violence, the exodus of Christians, and the witnesss of the faith in their environment. These are the challenges facing Christians through the region. We spoke about Lebanon, but also Syria, the Holy Land, etc. The synod for the Middle East took place 10 years ago but its development was interrupted with the attack on the Baghdad cathedral. Are you thinking about organizing something for the entire Middle East, be it a regional synod or any other initiative?
Pope Francis: I’m not thinking about a synod. Initiatives, yes — I am open to many. But a synod never came to mind. You planted the first seed, let’s see what will happen. The life of Christians in Iraq is an afflicted life, but not only for Christians. I came to talk about Yazidis and other religions that did not submit to the power of Daesh. And this, I don’t know why, gave them a very great strength. But there is a problem, like you said, with emigration. Yesterday, as we drove from Qaraqosh to Erbil, there were lots of young people and the age level was low, low, low. Lots of young people. And the question someone asked me: But these young people, what is their future? Where will they go? Many will have to leave the country, many. Before leaving for the trip the other day, on Friday, 12 Iraqi refugees came to say goodbye to me. One had a prosthetic leg because he had escaped under a truck and had an accident… so many escaped. Migration is a double right. The right to not emigrate and the right to emigrate. But these people do not have either of the two. Because they cannot not emigrate, they do not know how to do it. And they cannot emigrate because the world squashes the consciousness that migration is a human right.
The other day — I’ll go back to the migration question — an Italian sociologist told me, speaking about the demographic winter in Italy: “But within 40 years we will have to import foreigners to work and pay pension taxes.” You French are smarter, you have advanced 10 years with the family support law and your level of growth is very large.
But immigration is experienced as an invasion. Because he asked, yesterday I wanted to receive Alan Kurdi’s father after Mass. This child is a symbol for them. Alan Kurdi is a symbol, for which I gave a sculpture to FAO [the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations]. It is a symbol that goes beyond a child who died in migration. He is a symbol of dying civilizations, which cannot survive. A symbol of humanity. Urgent measures are needed so that people have work in their place and do not have to emigrate. And also measures to safeguard the right to emigrate. It is true that every country must study well the ability to receive [immigrants], because it is not only about receiving them and leaving them on the beach. Receive them, accompany them, help them progress, and integrate them. The integration of immigrants is key.
Two anecdotes: Zaventem, in Belgium: the terrorists were Belgians, born in Belgium, but from ghettoized, non-integrated Islamic immigrants. Another example: when I went to Sweden, during the farewell ceremony, there was the minister, of what I don’t know, [Ed. Alice Bah-Kuhnke, Swedish Minister of Culture and Democracy from 2014 to 2019], she was very young, and she had a distinctive appearance, not typical of Swedes. She was the daughter of a migrant and a Swede, and so well integrated that she became minister [of culture]. Looking at these two things, they make you think a lot, a lot, a lot.
I would like to thank the generous countries. The countries that receive migrants, Lebanon. Lebanon was generous with emigrants. There are two million Syrians there, I think. And Jordan — unfortunately, we will not pass over Jordan because the king is very nice, King Abdullah wanted to pay us a tribute with the planes in passage. I will thank him now — Jordan has been very generous [with] more than one and a half million migrants, also many other countries… to name just two. Thank you to these generous countries. Thank you very much.
Matteo Bruni: The next question is in Italian from the journalist Stefania Falasca.
Stefania Falasca (Avvenire): Good morning, Holy Father. Thank you. In three days in this country, which is a key country of the Middle East, you have done what the powerful of the earth have been discussing for 30 years. You have already explained what was the interesting genesis of your travels, how the choices for your travels originate, but now in this juncture, can you also consider a trip to Syria? What could be the objectives from now to a year from now of other places where your presence is required?
Pope Francis: Thank you. In the Middle East only the hypothesis, and also the promise is for Lebanon. I have not thought about a trip to Syria. I have not thought about it because the inspiration did not come to me. But I am so close to the tormented and beloved Syria, as I call it. I remember from the beginning of my pontificate that afternoon of prayer in St. Peter’s Square. There was the rosary, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. And how many Muslims with carpets on the ground were praying with us for peace in Syria, to stop the bombing, at that moment when it was said that there would be a fierce bombing. I carry Syria in my heart, but thinking about a trip, it has not occurred to me at this moment. Thank you.
Matteo Bruni: Thank you. The next question comes from Sylwia Wysocka of the Polish press.
Sylwia Wysocka (Polish Press Agency): Holy Father, in these very difficult 12 months your activity has been very limited. Yesterday you had the first direct and very close contact with the people in Qaraqosh: What did you feel? And then, in your opinion, now, with the current health system, can the general audiences with people, with faithful, recommence as before?
Pope Francis: I feel different when I am away from the people in the audiences. I would like to restart the general audiences again as soon as possible. Hopefully the conditions will be right. I will follow the norms of the authorities in this. They are in charge and they have the grace of God to help us in this. They are responsible for setting the rules, whether we like them or not. They are responsible and they have to be so.
Now I have started again with the Angelus in the square, with the distances it can be done. There is the proposal of small general audiences, but I have not decided until the development of the situation becomes clear. After these months of imprisonment, I really felt a bit imprisoned, this is, for me, living again.
Living again because it is touching the Church, touching the holy people of God, touching all peoples. A priest becomes a priest to serve, to serve the people of God, not for careerism, right? Not for the money.
This morning in the Mass there was [the Scripture reading about] the healing of Naaman the Syrian and it said that Naaman wanted to give gifts after he had been healed. But he refused… but the prophet Elisha refused them. And the Bible continues: the prophet Elisha’s assistant, when they had left, settled the prophet well and running he followed Naaman and asked for gifts for him. And God said, “the leprosy that Naaman had will cling to you.” I am afraid that we, men and women of the Church, especially we priests, do not have this gratuitous closeness to the people of God which is what saves us.
And to be like Naaman’s servant, to help, but then going back [for the gifts.] I am afraid of that leprosy. And the only one who saves us from the leprosy of greed, of pride, is the holy people of God, like what God spoke about with David, “I have taken you out of the flock, do not forget the flock.” That of which Paul spoke to Timothy: “Remember your mother and grandmother who nursed you in the faith.” Do not lose your belonging to the people of God to become a privileged caste of consecrated, clerics, anything.
This is why contact with the people saves us, helps us. We give the Eucharist, preaching, our function to the people of God, but they give us belonging. Let us not forget this belonging to the people of God. Then begin again like this.
I met in Iraq, in Qaraqosh… I did not imagine the ruins of Mosul, I did not imagine. Really. Yes, I may have seen things, I may have read the book, but this touches, it is touching.
What touched me the most was the testimony of a mother in Qaraqosh. A priest who truly knows poverty, service, penance; and a woman who lost her son in the first bombings by ISIS gave her testimony. She said one word: forgiveness. I was moved. A mother who says: I forgive, I ask forgiveness for them.
I was reminded of my trip to Colombia, of that meeting in Villavicencio where so many people, women above all, mothers and brides, spoke about their experience of the murder of their children and husbands. They said, “I forgive, I forgive.” But this word we have lost. We know how to insult big time. We know how to condemn in a big way. Me first, we know it well. But to forgive, to forgive one’s enemies. This is the pure Gospel. This is what touched me the most in Qaraqosh.
Matteo Bruni: There are other questions if you want. Otherwise we can…
Pope Francis: How long has it been?
Bruni: Almost an hour.
Pope Francis: We have been talking for almost an hour. I don’t know, I would continue, [joking] but the car… [is waiting for me.] Let’s do, how do you say, the last one before celebrating the birthday.
Matteo Bruni: The last is by Catherine Marciano from the French press, from the Agence France-Presse.
Catherine Marciano (AFP): Your Holiness, I wanted to know what you felt in the helicopter seeing the destroyed city of Mosul and praying on the ruins of a church. Since it is Women’s Day, I would like to ask a little question about women… You have supported the women in Qaraqosh with very nice words, but what do you think about the fact that a Muslim woman in love cannot marry a Christian without being discarded by her family or even worse. But the first question was about Mosul. Thank you, Your Holiness.
Pope Francis: I said what I felt in Mosul a little bit en passant. When I stopped in front of the destroyed church, I had no words, I had no words… beyond belief, beyond belief. Not just the church, even the other destroyed churches. Even a destroyed mosque, you can see that [the perpetrators] did not agree with the people. Not to believe our human cruelty, no. At this moment I do not want to say the word, “it begins again,” but let’s look at Africa. With our experience of Mosul, and these people who destroy everything, enmity is created and the so-called Islamic State begins to act. This is a bad thing, very bad, and before moving on to the other question — A question that came to my mind in the church was this: “But who sells weapons to these destroyers? Because they do not make weapons at home. Yes, they will make some bombs, but who sells the weapons, who is responsible? I would at least ask that those who sell the weapons have the sincerity to say: we sell weapons. They don’t say it. It’s ugly.
Women… women are braver than men. But even today women are humiliated. Let’s go to the extreme: one of you showed me the list of prices for women. [Ed. prepared by ISIS for selling Christian and Yazidi women.] I couldn’t believe it: if the woman is like this, she costs this much… to sell her… Women are sold, women are enslaved. Even in the center of Rome, the work against trafficking is an everyday job.
During the Jubilee, I went to visit one of the many houses of the Opera Don Benzi: Ransomed girls, one with her ear cut off because she had not brought the right money that day, and the other brought from Bratislava in the trunk of a car, a slave, kidnapped. This happens among us, the educated. Human trafficking. In these countries, some, especially in parts of Africa, there is mutilation as a ritual that must be done. Women are still slaves, and we have to fight, struggle, for the dignity of women. They are the ones who carry history forward. This is not an exaggeration: Women carry history forward and it’s not a compliment because today is Women’s Day. Even slavery is like this, the rejection of women… Just think, there are places where there is the debate regarding whether repudiation of a wife should be given in writing or only orally. Not even the right to have the act of repudiation! This is happening today, but to keep us from straying, think of what happens in the center of Rome, of the girls who are kidnapped and are exploited. I think I have said everything about this. I wish you a good end to your trip and I ask you to pray for me, I need it. Thank you.
[…]
With the upcoming canonization of Cardinal Newman next month, one wonders how many modern day Newmans are not converting precisely because of all of our ongoing scandals.
Repulsive men, Malone and Dolan and Francis.
They are called, in turn: “His Excellency,” “His Eminence,” and “His Holiness.”
Too bad for the poor apostles that they missed out on such “supreme” titles and jet-set “careers.”
Chris, do you pray for priests, bishops, and most especially our Holy Father instead of using atrocious names (I know I’ve read your responses consistently for over a year)? By calling priests, bishops, and the Pope derogatory names, is leveling judgment against them and God himself. I fear for you as you will be judged as harsh as you judge others. I will pray that your heart will not be so hard. Jesus asks us to be meek and humble of heart. Let Him be the judge of His priests who are in error, He alone knows the full truth.
You say at the end of your comment: “He [God] alone knows the full truth”. We know the shocking truth very well already, why we would we want all the heinous, graphic and horrific details, in other words: the Full Truth? Why?? Is that the only way to determine culpability and demand responsibility and punishment? Your comment and its supporting ideas are a graphic example of what’s wrong in the Church today: we have become a hybrid of good and evil under the banner of satanic false charity and satanic false compassion, in other words, we have become spiritually homosexual.
What God condemns is the judgment used only to exalt ourselves not the judgment used to exalt God Himself, His Truth, His Will and His single-minded purpose to save us from sin! That’s why He says: “When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood” (Ezekiel 3:18).
All the Prophets, John The Baptist, Jesus, His Apostles, all the Saints, and all of Church history, demonstrate this urgent, unyielding command very well, time and time again. Silence before evil only enables and tremendously empowers it, while corrupting the young, which see through our hypocrisy, and take our silence as total approval, the psychopathic dream of many in our high clergy and in the corrupt world, who do spend great time and energy “lovingly” kissing up to each other, mutual self-worship. Disgusting treason! Yes to Jesus, no to evil, no middle ground. “”Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters”, (Martthew 12:30).
Yes Chrisbin Virginia, I just prayed a rosary this morning again for The Pope and Bishops and priests and faithful…despite “His Forgetfulness” and his spokesman Faggioli making mockery of praying the Rosary.
And I am as humble as a man can be…I Jane no authority and I am of low estate.
I appreciate your sincere concern for me, but it is very much misplaced.
You might be more concerned if you knew about the INJUSTICE of the Inzoli case, or that of the Julio Grassi case, or that of the FFI case, or the that of the Sisters of Mary Mother of the Redeemer, for starters.
I assume you know little or nothing of these, is that surmise correct, or am I mistaken about that?
And I want you to know that I have been following Jesus’ command to pray for the enemies who persecute the Church, and to fast and pray to wage spiritual war against the evil stalking inside the Church. In truth, since last Sep 2018, I have fasted 2 days a week, except for our seasonal feasts.
I will not keep silent about sex abusers and coverup artists and liars and embezzlers in the Church, and the mediocre Bishops and Cardinals of The McCarrick Establishment.
Let us, in cautioning one another, remember what to be cautious of: in England if Henry VIII, among dozens of Bishops in the English Church, only one Bishop stood up for the truth…Bishop John Fisher of Rochester. He was murdered and the other Bishops saved their own skins, and abandoned hundreds of lowly priests and nuns to torture, death, or at best being forced into the street to starve.
So there is no need to be quite so sanguine about the crimes committed by Cardinals and Bishops of the McCarrick Establishment, since history teaches that Cardinals and Bishops are not necessarily very trustworthy in the majority of cases. And Jesus has not assured us that the way is wide that leads to heaven.
I will not be quiet, because that is what the frauds of the McCarrick want…its easier for them to go to sleep at night.
But rest assured, I have great trust in good shepherds. I simply conclude what seems obvious by their well-documented behavior since 2002: good shepherds are extremely valuable in The Church, because they are rare indeed.
Just ask Governor Keating of Oklahoma, or even, belatedly, his colleague Judge Anne Burke of Illinois…or Marie Collins of Ireland.
“I will pray that your heart will not be so hard. Jesus asks us to be meek and humble of heart. Let Him be the judge of His priests who are in error, He alone knows the full truth.”
I can’t let this comment stand; sadly, this response to Chris in Maryland represents a big part of the problem. Sexual assault and abuse, as well as financial corruption are all criminal acts. They deserve judgment; doesn’t matter whether they are committed by priests, bishops, or the Pope himself. Covering up these crimes, or allowing sexual harassment, abuse etc… of minors, laity, seminarians, or those under your authority is a grave injustice, if not also a criminal act. This cannot be tolerated. You wouldn’t tolerate it in your workplace, you wouldn’t tolerate in your family. Why on *earth* would you tolerate this corruption from members of the priesthood? Why on earth would you tolerate it from someone who claims to be the spiritual father of 1 billion Catholics?
McCarrick, Grassi, Zanchetta, Inzoli, Barros, Maradiaga, Pineda, 2 auxiliary bishops of Bergoglio (one with a male prostitute in the sacristy), another accused of infidelity with another man’s wife. Oh, and let’s not forget Ricca (of “who am I to judge fare”). At some point, covering your eyes and spewing out this pious blather about being “charitable” becomes untenable.
Eric you say “this response to Chris in Maryland represents a big part of the problem”
I would rather say part of the problem, as the problem is how does the Church restore her credibility, now in the present moment. While acknowledging that we are all sinners in need of His Mercy, in context with “He alone knows the full truth (Reality) of each individual heart”. As action is needed now in the present moment rather than mere words and a condemnations which continually fall upon deaf ears.
While I absolutely agree with “Sexual assault and abuse, as well as financial corruption are all criminal acts. They deserve judgment
Many within the clergy have ‘good intent’ but all are immersed in institutional hypocrisy, as they have served its Image rather than God (Truth) first. So we have institutionalized hypocrisy, as the leadership cannot face/show the reality of itself before it’s worldly Image (Clericalism), which has stifled spiritual growth, while ‘enslaving’ them to this worldly Image of perceived perfection.
The antidote to sin is humility as a humble heart is the only place from where the transforming action of Holy Spirit can be embraced.
“This is the reality of grace.”
As St. Vincent de Paul put it centuries ago, “Humility is nothing but truth, and pride is nothing but lying.”
A cleansing has to take place and I believe that courage will be found, to combat this present evil, through a renewed spiritual awakening, emanating from humility, as sincerity of heart, is from where again we must start.
A holy Church is a humble Church and by definition a Holy Priesthood is a humble Priesthood.
Our Lord Himself Has given His Church the means to call to account the elite within the Church now in the present moment while acknowledging that we are all sinners in need of His Mercy.
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https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2019/09/22/doing-as-i-please-or-pleasing-as-i-do/#comment-154093
kevin your brother
In Christ
“I would rather say part of the problem, as the problem is how does the Church restore her credibility, now in the present moment….As action is needed now in the present moment rather than mere words and a condemnations which continually fall upon deaf ears.”
Not really sure what to make of your reply, Kevin. I’m limited in my time in what I can do concretely–other than voice my opinion and speak with others–but I do applaud what the main whistleblower in the buffalo case did. There need to be more like her, especially from those in the Vatican who work in the Roman Curia. To hell with the Pontifical Secret.
I’m not just venting for the sake of venting; my tone has a very specific purpose, and that is to shock people out of their current attitudes (particularly the laity). Laity need to do the same when it comes to bishops–i.e., make them feel *very* uncomfortable. Public shaming, embarrassment, and humiliation work much better than financial pressure, though I don’t oppose that either.
When the new archbishop of DC, for instance, invites a cardinal who is responsible for a $0.750B settlement related to his role in sex abuse coverup to his installation, he should be made to feel shame. And, I might add, the independent Catholic press should be hounding him to no end.
Finally, I support a whole range of very practical reforms that would help curtail financial and sexual abuse, to say nothing of making the church run better in general: independent investigations run by professional investigators, independently audited financial statements of dioceses and religious orders (to say nothing of the Vatican), background investigations and audits of clergy (similar to what an employee of the government or CPA firm goes through). These are just the first few things that come to mind. However, again, when I mention these things to folks like the commenter that I originally responded to, I get pious blather. Hence, my reaction is that such people need to be made to feel uncomfortable. They need to be forced to confront the problem and dispense with their passivity.
That’s all I got. It’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.
Thank you Eric for your comment, on September 27, 2019 at 8:13 pm.
“but I do applaud what the main whistle- blower in the buffalo case did” I know very little about the buffalo case but I do applaud all whistle-blowers who in good conscience, expose evil whatever its face, also.
And of course you are “not just venting for the sake of venting” as with Chris in Maryland, who’s comments I have come across on many different Web Sites. I can only admire his tenacity and your concerted efforts to shock and cajole a docile laity, with others into action. While exposing and confronting the deplorable state of the leadership of Church today, emanating from Clericalism (a policy of maintaining or increasing the power of a religious hierarchy) and to maintain that power, many have subdued their own ‘consciences’ in serving a self-serving Image of worldly goodness, rather than God (Truth) first.
I did not mean to belittle your efforts in any way, rather I was attempting to go to what I believe is the heart of the matter, which is one of spiritual corruption that has produced dead/dormant and laxed consciences, within the leadership, in proposing a way (via my link) to confront these stagnant consciences, while hopefully reinvigorating them.
“Finally, I support a whole range of very practical reforms that would help curtail financial and sexual abuse, to say nothing of making the church run better in general”
From my perspective we have a Church within a Church, see via the link.
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2019/05/31/infiltration-innuendo-and-the-longing-for-certainty/#comment-138182
The situation given via the link, can only be confronted by a vigorous serving of the Truth in all situations, for this to happen, we will have to have a renewed spiritual awakening, emanating from humility. Anything else is just moving the deck chairs, as the underlying present situation, will remain.
It is said “the fish rots from the head down” we need to see true humble leadership, as
Hope’s springs eternal or so the saying goes’
Doe’s the church present a weed?
When she should present a rose,
A light set upon a hill,
All mankind shall see and know God’s Holy Will.
No word need be spoken, as all mankind shall see,
God’s lovers as they bend their knee.
Justice and Love reflected from above.
Then missionary shall call, we would have this for one and all
A crystal (Rome) sat on a hill, manifesting our Fathers
Holy Will.
To create this ‘Hope’ should be our priority, as where can mankind look to see the Truth within the Gospels, actually working.
To Peter “feed my flock” we will always need central direction (Leadership).
If it cannot be seen in Rome/Peter (Pope Francis), where?
If the leaders of our Church cannot do this what HOPE is there for mankind?
It is said you cannot be what you do not see/envisage, so we need to see our Shepherds holding the bright lamp of Truth high above their own vulnerabilities, teachings us by example, in humility, how we are also to be made ‘Holy’ (Sanctified) as in
“Sanctify them in the Truth; thy Word is Truth as thou didst send me into the World so I have sent them into the World and for their sake I consecrate myself that they also may be consecrated in truth”
So in our present shameful situation, is God preparing the birth (Building up) of a Church that will be truthful with herself. A Church that proceeds and leads in humility, ‘openly’ acknowledging her failings before God and all of her children.
As a humble heart (Church) will never cover its tracks or hide its short comings, and in doing so confers authenticity, as it walks in its own vulnerability /weakness/brokenness in trust/faith before God and mankind. It is a heart (Church) to be trusted, as it ‘dispels’ darkness within its own ego/self, in serving God (Truth) first, before any other.
“God will not despise a broken spirit and contrite heart” and neither will the faithful. The leadership has nothing to fear, no matter how compromised, as the cleansing grace of humility (Full ‘open’ acknowledgement of past failings/sins) is the communal bond of love that holds His flock together.
We need to see true discipleship, and working disciples, as demonstrated, in my post, via the link
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2019/06/14/whats-going-to-bring-the-nones-back-to-the-church/#comment-139855
kevin your brother
In Christ
Chris in VA –
It is required of all of us to oppose error and evil.
I am fairly certain that you oppose error and evil…and for instance…you strongly oppose and even condemn sex abuse and coverup.
I am correct, I am sure.
And I am guessing that even before you were an adult, you knew that sexual relations between an adult and a Minor was a crime…isn’t that the case?
That presumably being the case, I will (overnight) post a video of a Bishop in good standing in the US, giving a deposition about his handling sex abuse of minors under his jurisdiction.
In our community, rural, a young priest was caught abusing altarboys.It was kept very quiet but being dealt with. As his crimes came close to being exposed he murdered the two men who came forth and then before trial? He committed suicide. I believe the men in the church who have allowed this, or been a part of this should be immediately relieved of their duties and prosecuted. Top down. I believe we could fill all those positions quite nicely with holy men. What we have lost in spirituality, money for schools and hospitals with wasted funds paid to abused. Millions not catechized properly. It is truly sickening! Stop the coverup start the healing.
Chris in VA:
Watch this behavior by a Bishop Carlson, in good standing in the US Church, and tell me what you think…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3qlQnbIt4w
Do You pray for justice for the victims and their families?
Justice, which the pope and his homosexual minion bishops and cardinals delay, deny and distract?
The McCarrick investigation? How’s that coming along?
Answer: It’s not. And won’t.
Christ in VA, God has very harsh words for people like Malone, Dolan and Francis. They are the wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are the skandalon that causes the people to stumble.
Chris. Do you honestly think or believe that Jesus would find it fitting to stand before those three men that Chris of Maryland scorns so aptly, and address them as being: “Men in whom there is no GUILE”? Really? If not,then that would be the equivalent of our Lord regarding them as being ‘vile, would it not? Perhaps it’s not the time any longer to be too pedantic about the actual words being used, rather than to set the highest expectations for those who are deeply guilty of scandalizing every aspect of the teaching of Christ… and His Church. By nit-picking the use of words that could well be apt to use, rather than to stand firm in defense of all that is Holy, you might also be betraying the trust that was placed in you at the time of your ‘CONFIRMATION’ when you affirmed your position as being a soldier of Christ? To be truly loving does not necessitate counter challenging a brother in Christ who is on the defensive against the evil being perpetrated by liars and deceivers amongst our priests, Bishops and cardinals who rally in support of the Pope to his eternal disgrace…
Amen Patricia
Chris in VIrginia, may I add to others’ list of Jesus’ epithets for evil religious leaders? “Whited Sepulchres”? He was certainly a Man with a knack for “atrocious names”.
Very well said!
Call me naive, but sometimes I wonder what it would be like if the leaders of the Church were actually Catholic.
“If Catholics would rise up and be truly Catholic, the world would change overnight.” – Mother Angelica. If the world is not changing, is because we are not truly Catholic, we are now a hybrid of good and evil, in other words, we are being spiritually homosexual.
It is this most evil spirit of spiritual homosexuality, following on the heels of physical homosexuality and pedophilia, the most powerful all-around sin enablers, that must be prayed and fought against at all costs, not only in the Clergy but especially in us lay people who are also failing terribly and, like the saying goes, we get the leaders we deserve. Yikes! Let that sink in! A laity comitted to sanctity will turn the barque of Peter around. Like Mother Angelica would also say, “… so, get cracking!!”
Or actually men.
Yes, Real Catholic MEN, yes! From a True Catholic woman and so well said!! We must pray much to Saint Joseph, foster father of Jesus, who faced more evil concentrated in his one short lifetime that we’ll ever experience in two thousand lifetimes, all while protecting the Child Jesus and Mary, and modeling like no one else True Manhood and the True Image and Fatherhood of God to Jesus’ human nature.
Adam failed at being a steward of God’s Creation but Joseph did not fail at being the holy steward of God’s Greatest Treasures, Jesus and Mary!! Saint Joseph, so silent and so truly manly, will lead us to victory!
Amen
You got that right.
Feast of Sts Cosmas and Damian today – physicians , surgeons ..
The focus on putting culpability on past errors , on the Father figures ( almost exclusively ) , in an effort to find remedy ..
it is a good thing that there is also now more focus on these issues , in the broader light of generational issues and such as well..
With the upcoming canonisation of St.John Newman, more interest , in that side of our ‘family ‘ history as well ..
The painful history of the repeated miscarriages of his 1st wife and the speculation of a certain disease , which was prevalent in the Americas , that could have led to same ..the possibility that either of them could have had some exposure , through their care takers , even inadvertently ..could the whole native Americans be held indirectly responsible, for the effects of all that have followed ..and The Church , thus having a right to may be go after some of the lands as a form of reparation, for what they lost , including in upstate Newyork 🙂
or is it that , The Church , again , not intentionally and this to include the laity as well, did not call forth for fasting and penance ,early on , for the tragic events in the life of the King and queen ..
That is rather like our times too , with an indifference of vast proportions , for similar areas , in spite of repeated exhortations, including from The Angel of Peace at Fatima calling us to ‘penance , penance , penance ..’
‘ Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us ..’ and may these two saints and Patrons of those in the healing fields be there to invoke mercy ,esp. also on the many , who have become mercenaries for the kingdom of evil which does not spare the flock either ..
the flock, who are asked to trust in His mercy for repeated offenses in all these realms ..
May the Holy Spirit be the One to help guide the hands and hearts that have to make the tough decisions in all these areas , all the while helping many to come to repentance, to hear the same Holy Spirit , in the gentle whisper of The Mother –
‘ you are loved, blessed , forgiven and thank you for accepting the mercy of The Father ‘..a whisper echoed through the voices and blessings of countless holy angels and saints ..at every Holy Mass and Confession ..and in turn , for the laity to echo same back , to the Father figures .. to each other ..to thus cast the net on the right side ..
Blessings !
Hope no one misread the error in the above post that did not clarify that the mention about the miscarriage and all was about the family of King Henry the V111 th 🙂
Again , let us hope that the focus on looking for culpability would broaden enough ,
which might be the good that the Holy Father is trying to get The Church to look into through the changes he allows in the seemingly problem appointments as well , thus to help with the deep cleansing that is needed .
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYpsKNzKZpnXdnQ0IQd8Ufw – this good site might even be from one who is familiar with these areas , to let the whole Church benefit more from same as well , which would be in line with what the Holy Father too desires for families world over .
And to think that if Henry V111 th and family had such help , we may not have a
St .John Newman either 🙂
The church must not allow homosexuals into the seminaries. That is where it begins. The must do a better job at screening the candidates. Homosexuality infested the church and it must be purged.
But how can it not be allowed when most likely a great majority of rectors and bishops are homosexuals themselves.
We have found that out about McCarrick and Bernardin. No doubt many others are too because it is a club.
Is there a former pope that hasn’t been aware of this? I think not!
Is there a cardinal that hasn’t been aware?
Bishop Malone was made a Bishop by Bernard Law in 2000
That’s tells us more than I care to know
The placement of cardinal Law in Rome tells us even more. Sad
Malone is a truly arrogant little man if he thinks that after all the harm he has done to the Church and to his flock, that he is somehow still indispensible. People like him deserve to rot in prison, and that is likely the only way for the Church to be purged of this filth, namely for the arrogant and corrupt like Malone, Cupich and Wuerl to be dragged kicking and creaming out of their positions of power and privilege and tossed locked up.
“The longer Church authorities delay acting, the more likely it becomes that Caesar will be the one to clean the Church’s Augean stables…”
It probably will take “Caesar” to clean the filth in the Church today through the form of lawsuits and prosecution. There appears not to be enough collective wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord among the Church leadership to realize what they must do to clean house. In fact, some of them are so corrupt that they not only don’t want to clean up the filth, they want to keep contributing to it! (They are also the same ones who play fast and loose with the doctrines that the Church has taught for 2,000 years.)
They are like the doleful Israelites in this week’s (Sept 23-27) first readings who won’t fulfill their duty to get the Temple rebuilt. It takes the outsider pagan kings of Persia (“Caesar) to force them to do their duty. It may take “Caesar” again today in the form of lawsuits and prosecution to clean up the filth that the Church leadership should be doing instead of blathering and obstructing.