Pope Francis smiles during his general audience in St. Peter’s Square Sept. 27, 2023. / Credit: Daniel Ibanez/CNA
Rome Newsroom, Oct 17, 2023 / 13:10 pm (CNA).
Pope Francis, speaking in a new interview published by a media outlet in his native Argentina, said the Church must change “in favor of the dignity of the people.”
But in the same interview, conducted late last month and published Tuesday by state-owned news agency Telam Digital, he stressed that change must take place “without recanting the essence of the Church.”
“Since the Second Vatican Council, John XXIII had a very clear perception: The Church has to change. Paul VI agreed, just like the succeeding popes,” Francis said in the interview.
“It’s not just changing ways, it’s about a change of growth, in favor of the dignity of people. That’s theological progression, of moral theology and all the ecclesiastical sciences, even in the interpretation of Scriptures that have progressed according to the feelings of the Church,” he continued.
But, he added, using the image of a tree and its roots, “always in harmony. Rupture is not good. We either progress through development or things don’t turn out right. Rupture leaves you out of the sap of development.”
The pope went on to reference the writings of Vincent of Lérins, a fifth-century monk who stated that changes in the Church must be consolidating, growing, and ennobling.
“The Church has to change. Let’s think of the ways it has changed since the [Second Vatican] Council until now and the way it must continue changing its ways, in the way to propose an unchanging truth,” he said. “That is, the revelation of Jesus Christ does not change, the dogmas of the Church do not change, they grow and ennoble themselves like the sap of a tree. The person who does not follow this path follows a path that takes steps backward, a path that closes on itself.”
“Changes in the Church take place within this identity flow of the Church. And it has to keep changing along the way, as challenges are met. That is why the core of change is fundamentally pastoral, without recanting the essence of the Church.”
Pope Francis emphasized the role of dialogue. “I believe dialogue cannot be just nationalist, it must be universal, especially nowadays with the advanced communication systems we have. That is why I speak of universal dialogue, universal harmony, universal encounter. And of course, the enemy of this is war. Since the end of World War II up until today, there have been wars everywhere. That’s what I meant when I said we are living a World War in pieces.”
‘I’m going to do a heresy’
The pope’s on-camera remarks touched on a wide range of topics, including the Synod on Synodality, the Oct. 22 presidential election in Argentina, and his personal prayer life.
In answer to a question about his future travel plans, Francis alluded to the possibility of returning to his home country for the first time as pope — and perhaps continuing on to and even going so far as the South Pole.
“I’d like to go [to Argentina],” he said. “When it comes to more distant countries, I still haven’t visited Papua New Guinea. Somebody said that if I go to Argentina, I should stop at Rio Gallegos, then head to the South Pole, land in Melbourne and visit New Zealand. It would be a rather long journey.”
Asked if it was “hard being the representative of God on Earth” at this time, Francis replied: “I’m going to do a heresy. We are all representatives of God. Every person who believes must testify to what they believe and, in this sense, we are all representatives of God.”
“It is true that the pope is a privileged representative of God,” he added, laughing, “and I must testify to an inner coherence, to the truth of the Church and the pastorality of the Church. That is, a Church that keeps its doors open for everybody.”
‘People without a sense of humor are boring’
Asked about his personal prayer life, the pope described it as child-like and “old-fashioned.”
“I maintain the piety I had as a child. My grandmother taught me how to pray and I maintain that simple piety of praying, as we say in Argentina ‘the faith of a coal miner,’” Pope Francis said.
“I’m not complicated when I pray. One might even say I have an old-fashioned spirituality,” he said.
“My religious consciousness has grown a lot, that’s different, it has matured, but the way I express myself to God has always been simple. Being complicated is not in me,” he said.
“Sometimes I say [looking up], ‘You fix this, because I can’t.’ And I ask the Virgin and the saints to intercede, to help me,” he said. “And when I have to make a decision, I always pray … to the light above. But the Lord is a good friend, he has been good to me. He takes care of me, as he takes care of all. We must pay attention to the way he takes care of each of us; he has a different style with each of us. That is beautiful.”
Pope Francis also spoke in the interview about the importance of having a sense of humor.
Responding to a question about what amuses him, he said with a laugh: “A sense of humor is a certificate of good health.”
Every day for the past 40 years, he said, he has prayed St. Thomas More’s “Prayer for Good Humor,” which begins: “Grant me, O Lord, good digestion, and also something to digest. Grant me a healthy body, and the necessary good humor to maintain it.”
“People who don’t have a sense of humor,” the pope said, “are boring.”
[…]
“He also said he does not like ‘extremisms, either progressive, or traditionalist ones’ but believes ‘there is a via media’ which is the ‘correct path to take, even if each of us has his own peculiarities, because, thanks be to God, we do not repeat, we are not clones'(Cardinal Ladaria SJ).” Edw Pentin voiced cautious reserve in Pope Francis’ choice. Pentin noted concern of having two Jesuits in the foremost positions of authority in the Church. It’s the “via media” that is most concerning given that he has never expressed any concern whatsoever over AL. Via media is the Pontiff’s putative approach for communion for D&R in AL. What is striking regarding a middle ground narrowly measured approach in AL is far from what has transpired in those Nat Bishops Conf that have adopted AL and gone far beyond giving sanction to reliance on conscience. It seems considering what is said here Cardinal Ladaria SJ will amount to no more than a yes man. An effectual papal puppet. At least to his great credit Cardinal Mueller had the courage to warn the German Bishops. But who would think outlaw Card Reinhold Marx who previously said he would defy Rome in the mold of Martin Luther and follow his own perspectives on moral issues would pay attention to Card Mueller. Now the Pontiff no longer needs to deal with a Gadfly. He’s appointed a Gnat.
“The Vatican announced July 1 that taking Müller’s place will be Jesuit Archbishop Luis Ladaria, who was appointed secretary to the CDF by Benedict XVI in 2008, and is known to be simple, orthodox in his theology, highly intellectual and is described by those who know him as not being a ‘yes man’.”
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/07/02/cardinal-mller-theres-no-problem-between-me-pope-francis/
I hope he is a good Jesuit and not a bad one.
Oh, brother.
I don’t see how Ladaria is anything but a
“Yes” man as Fr. Morello’s excellent comment declares.
At some point, as Christ promised, the Holy Spirit will have to intervene because Pope Francis will actively move to deny Church doctrine.
“The Vatican announced July 1 that taking Müller’s place will be Jesuit Archbishop Luis Ladaria, who was appointed secretary to the CDF by Benedict XVI in 2008, and is known to be simple, orthodox in his theology, highly intellectual and is described by those who know him as not being a ‘yes man’.”
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/07/02/cardinal-mller-theres-no-problem-between-me-pope-francis/
The SJ is about the sexual revolution and their world-wide zeitgeist brand.
With exceptions for the orthodox ones I know I can trust, like Fathers Schall, Fessio and others like them, I begin with total distrust of anyone of SJ.
I wish their decadent order would disappear faster than they already are.
Just what Pope Francis wants – another yes man carrying water for his decadent 1960s “Kasper-Kirk” the new Church of man as god:
Quote Kasper: ” The God who sits enthroned over the world and history as a changeless being is an offense to man.” (Kasper, God in History, 1967).
Total arrogance.
I reject Pope F until the day he answers the dubia by unambiguously affirming FC, and upholding the word of Jesus against his henchman Kasper and his neo-Pharisee demand for divorce.
I thin a correction should be made in the article and instead of saying: “the most important dicastery in the Roman Curia”, it should be “formerly the most important dicastery…”, as it seems clear that the Pontiff doesn’t have much patience with doctrine. Otherwise, why would be refuse to answer the “dubia”? He is gung ho on changing the doctrine surreptitiously by means pastoral practice. Maybe Ladaria, being aJesuit, will be more docile, according to the Ignatian doctrine of “blind obedience”, or at least he will keep his mouth shut on AL. He is certainly not heterodox.
Oh I doubt Father Ladaria would be intimidated by his fellow Jesuit. Look at Father Fessio–he’s not ever been intimated
by his fellow priests, including his fellow Jesuit, the Pope.
Sick and tired of this man who sits in St. Peter’s chair.
He is not my pope until he answers the dubia.
How could one be concerned about the 4th of July celebrations when a whole new scandal is breaking about the sexual abuse of children, wholesale gay parties in the Vatican and how two of the advisors close to the pope are deeply involved in ongoing sexual activities in a place owned by the Vatican. Amazing, we thought the church had entered into a new era obviously nothing ever changes. These priests and even cardinals involved who practice the gay lifestyle in grand style are rife in the Vatican even those who direct the Liturgy are involved and many others. Some from Australia, Pell for one with many cases against him and those from America who have brought new gay life to the Vatican. It has been all over the radio today is Los Angeles, Radio KFI. Tomorrow it will be all over NY news. They were those that pushed the investigations against Cardinal Mahoney. Evidently, the time has come to leave the church as only a nod is given to these unforgivable acts and life goes on starting with the pope and ending with the lowest priest in any diocese. Obviously, there is no cure for these sins. Well, this will never be posted. God help us, evidently, this is just another Jesuits will be Jesuits. The elites? We don’t think so.
Kathy,I believe that God issues the call, but until these molesters and the bishops who shield them face justice,men who want to live a holy life will stay away from the priesthood. Thank God Pope Francis sent Pell back to Australia to face the music and answer to the law for his misdeeds.
Kathy,thank God Pope Francis sent Pell back to Australia to face the music. Men who want to to serve God will stay away from a priesthood where sin is allowed to flourish.
I hope this man is like Father Fessio an not like Bergoglio,I hope he is Orthodox an a Loyal Son of Jesus Christ……