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Pope Francis on female deacons: ‘No’

May 21, 2024 Catholic News Agency 4
Pope Francis sits down for an interview with Norah O’Donnell on CBS’ “60 Minutes,” which aired Monday, May 20, 2024. / Credit: CBS News/Adam Verdugo

CNA Staff, May 21, 2024 / 11:26 am (CNA).

Pope Francis has once again come out strongly against an ordained female diaconate, reiterating what for the Holy Father has been a consistently firm stance against women becoming clergy. 

The pope made the remarks this week in an interview with CBS News anchor Norah O’Donnell during an appearance on the network’s flagship magazine program, “60 Minutes.”

“You will have many young boys and girls that will come here at the end of next month for World Children’s Day,” O’Donnell said to the pope at one point during the interview. “And I’m curious, for a little girl growing up Catholic today, will she ever have the opportunity to be a deacon and participate as a clergy member in the Church?”

“No,” the pope replied. 

Pressed by O’Donnell as to whether a female diaconate was “something you’re open to,” Francis replied: “If it is deacons with holy orders, no.” 

“But women have always had, I would say, the function of deaconesses without being deacons, right?” he said. “Women are of great service as women, not as ministers, as ministers in this regard, within the holy orders.”

The Holy Father in the interview stressed the importance of women’s roles in the Catholic Church, describing them as “the ones who move changes forward, all sorts of changes.” 

“They are braver than the men. They know how best to protect life,” the pope said. “Women are masterful custodians of life. Women are great. They are very great. And making space in the Church for women does not mean giving them a ministry, no. The Church is a mother, and women in the Church are the ones who help foster that motherliness.” 

“Don’t forget that the ones who never abandoned Jesus were the women,” he pointed out. “The men all fled.”

Francis last year reaffirmed the impossibility of women becoming priests, or even modern Church deacons, stating that “holy orders is reserved for men.”

The pope in his discussion with O’Donnell — his first in-depth interview with a U.S. broadcast network — touched on a wide variety of subjects, from immigration to war to antisemitism.

Here are some other highlights from the Holy Father’s remarks during the interview, which aired in full on Monday evening: 

On immigrants fleeing violent countries for safer nations:

“The solution is migration, to open the doors to migration. For an immigration policy to be good, it must have four things: for the migrant to be received, assisted, promoted, and integrated. This is what is most important, to integrate them into the new life.”

On washing the feet of female prisoners at a women’s prison in Rome on Holy Thursday: 

“It is true, this time it was only women because it was a women’s jail. And the message is that men and women, we are all children of God. That men and women we are all apostles and we all can lead. Let us not forget that the bravest apostles, the most courageous, were the women: Mary Magdalene, Mary Salomé, and Mary of Santiago. They stayed with Jesus to the very end.”

On climate change: 

“Unfortunately, we have gotten to a point of no return. It’s sad, but that’s what it is. Global warming is a serious problem. Climate change at this moment is a road to death. A road to death, eh? And it is an artificial climate change, no? Something provoked, not the normal climate change, right? …

“In great measure, [wealthy countries are to blame], because they are the ones that have more of an economy and an energy based on fossil fuels that are creating this situation, right? They are the countries that can make the most difference, given their industry and all, aren’t they? But it is very difficult to create an awareness of this. They hold a conference, everybody is in agreement, they all sign, and then bye-bye. But we have to be very clear, global warming is alarming.”

On his plans for retirement:

“It has never occurred to me. Maybe if the day comes when my health can go no further. Perhaps because the only infirmity I have is in my knee, and that is getting much better. But it never occurred to me.”

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Here’s what Pope Francis said in his ‘60 Minutes’ interview

May 20, 2024 Catholic News Agency 6
In an interview with “60 Minutes” anchor Norah O’Donnell, Pope Francis discusses a wide range of issues. / Credit: CBS News/Adam Verdugo

CNA Staff, May 20, 2024 / 13:26 pm (CNA).

In his first in-depth interview with a U.S. broadcast network, Pope Francis addressed a wide range of topics, including the war in Ukraine, antisemitism, and U.S. immigration policy. 

A portion of the full interview, which will air Monday evening on CBS, aired Sunday evening on the network’s flagship magazine program, “60 Minutes.” In the segment, the pope answered questions from “CBS Evening News” anchor Norah O’Donnell through a Spanish translator.

On the threat of famine in Gaza ahead of World Children’s Day: 

“[The threat is] not just in Gaza. Think of Ukraine. Many kids from Ukraine come here. You know something? That those children don’t know how to smile? I’ll say something to them [mimics smile]… They have forgotten how to smile. And that is very painful.”

On wars in Ukraine and elsewhere:

“Please, warring countries, all of them, stop. Stop the war. Seek to negotiate. Strive for peace. A negotiated peace is always better than an endless war.”

On growing antisemitism in the U.S. amid the Israel-Hamas war:

“All ideology is bad. And antisemitism is an ideology, and it is bad. Any ‘anti’ is always bad. You can criticize one government or the other, the government of Israel, the Palestinian government. You can criticize all you want, but not ‘anti’ a people. Neither anti-Palestinian nor antisemitic. No. … I pray a lot for peace. And also suggest, ‘Please, stop. Negotiate.’”

On immigration: 

“Migration is something that makes a country grow. [To O’Donnell:] They say that you Irish migrated and brought the whiskey, and that the Italians migrated and brought the mafia… [laugh] It’s a joke. Don’t take it badly. But, migrants sometimes suffer a lot. They suffer a lot.”

On Texas state effort to revoke registration of migrant-serving Annunciation House in El Paso, Texas: 

“That is madness. Sheer madness. To close the border and leave them there, that is madness. The migrant has to be received. Then you see how you are going to deal with him. Maybe you have to send him back, I don’t know, but each case ought to be considered humanely.”

On the “globalization of indifference”:

“Do you want me to state it plainly? People wash their hands! There are so many Pontius Pilates on the loose out there… who see what is happening, the wars, the injustice, the crimes… ‘That’s OK, that’s OK’ and wash their hands. It’s indifference. That is what happens when the heart hardens… and becomes indifferent. Please, we have to get our hearts to feel again. We cannot remain indifferent in the face of such dramas of humanity. The globalization of indifference is a very ugly disease. Very ugly.”

On sexual abuse cases in the Church:

“[The Church] must continue working. Unfortunately, the tragedy of the abuses is enormous. And against this, an upright conscience and not only to not permit it but to put in place the conditions so that it does not happen. … It cannot be tolerated. When there is a case of a consecrated man or woman who abuses, the full force of the law falls upon them. In this there has been a great deal of progress.”

On the Vatican’s controversial Fiducia Supplicans document allowing for limited pastoral blessings of same-sex couples: 

“What I allowed was not to bless the union. That cannot be done because that is not a sacrament. I cannot. The Lord made it that way. But to bless each person, yes. The blessing is for everyone. For everyone. To bless a homosexual-type union, however, goes against the law; the natural law, the law of the Church. But to bless each person, why not? The blessing is for all. Some people were scandalized by this. But why? For everyone! Everyone!”

When asked about criticisms from “conservative” bishops in the United States:

“You use the adjective ‘conservatives.’ That is to say, a conservative is one who sticks to something and does not want to see anything else. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to take into account situations from the past, but another is to be closed inside a dogmatic box.”

On gestational surrogacy, which is forbidden by the Catholic Church: 

“In regard to surrogate motherhood, in the strictest technical sense of the term, no, it cannot happen. Sometimes surrogacy has become a business, and that is very bad. It is very bad. … The other hope is adoption. I would say that in each case the situation should be clearly considered, considered medically and then morally. I believe in these cases there is a general rule, but you have to go into each case in particular to assess the situation, as long as the moral principle is not skirted.”

On giving hope to others as the pope: 

“You have to be open to everything. The Church is like that: Everyone, everyone, everyone. ‘That so-and-so is a sinner…?’ Me too, I am a sinner. Everyone! The Gospel is for everyone. If the Church places a customs officer at the door, that is no longer the church of Christ. Everyone.”

When asked what gives him hope: 

“Everything. You see tragedies, but you also see so many beautiful things. You see heroic mothers, heroic men, men who have hopes and dreams, women who look to the future. That gives me a lot of hope. People want to live. People forge ahead. And people are fundamentally good. We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart is good.”

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