Vatican City, Jan 22, 2017 / 08:05 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In a new interview published Saturday, Pope Francis said he will wait to see what U.S. President Donald J. Trump does before making any judgments, emphasizing God’s own patience with him and his faults.
In an interview with Spanish newspaper El Pais Jan. 20, the same day as the U.S. presidential inauguration, Pope Francis said he doesn’t like to get ahead of himself “or judge people prematurely.”
“We will see how he acts, what he does, and then I will have an opinion. But being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite unwise. It would be like prophets predicting calamities or windfalls that will not be either,” he said.
“We will see. We will see what he does and will judge.” The world is so upside down, that it needs a fixed point, grounded firmly in reality: “what did you do, what did you decide, how do you move. That is what I prefer to wait and see.”
Asked if he wasn’t worried about things he had heard about Trump, Francis responded again that he is waiting. “God waited so long for me, with all my sins…” he said.
In the wide-ranging interview, the Pope was questioned about issues ranging from immigration to economics to Vatican diplomacy to the Gospel, among other things.
On the issue of immigration Francis was clear about his position, that “everyone does what they can or what they want. It is a very hard judgment.”
The most important thing is that those in dire need are helped and rescued, he said. After that we should welcome migrants and refugees and help them to integrate into their new country.
In the context of 1930s Germany, where the people were “in crisis” and looking for a charismatic leader, someone who could give them a clear identity, “we all know what happened,” he said. But what is important is that people did not talk to one another, there was no conversation.
“Yes,” borders can be controlled, he said. Countries have a right to control “who comes and who goes, and those countries at risk – from terrorism or such things – have even more the right to control them more, but no country has the right to deprive its citizens of the possibility to talk with their neighbors.”
Asked about Vatican diplomacy and its image, including the public thanks of Barack Obama and Raúl Castro on the one hand, and the parties that criticize the Vatican’s interference, on the other, the Pope said that he asks the Lord “that he give me the grace of not taking any measure for the sake of image.”
“Honesty, service, those are the criteria.” Mistakes are sometimes made, your image suffers, “but it doesn’t matter if there was goodwill. History will judge afterwards,” he said.
For him, he said, the clear, guiding principle for both pastoral action and Vatican diplomacy is that they are “mediators, rather than intermediaries.”
“We build bridges, not walls. What is the difference between a mediator and an intermediary?” he said. An intermediary is someone who enters a business agreement, renders a service and then is compensated, “and rightly so, because it is his job.”
The mediator, on the other hand, “is the one who wants to serve both parties and wants both parties to win even if he loses,” the Pope said. “Vatican diplomacy must be a mediator, not an intermediary. If, throughout history, it has sometimes maneuvered or managed a meeting that filled its pockets, that was a very serious sin.”
“The mediator builds bridges that are not for him, but rather for others to cross.”
Asked if his changes to the Vatican, sometimes criticized both by the more traditional sectors of the church and by the more progressive, are a “revolution of normalcy,” or already contained in the “Gospel’s essence,” as he has said, Pope Francis responded simply that he is a “sinner and not always successful.”
“I try – I don’t know if I succeed – to do what the Gospel says. That is what I try,” he said.
“The true heroes of the Church are the saints. That is, those men and women that devoted their lives to make the Gospel a reality,” he said. “The saints are the specific examples of the Gospel in daily life!”
With the emphasis on going out to the peripheries, how would Francis respond to those Catholics that feel that he ignores the people who have remained faithful to the Church and her teachings, was also questioned.
“I know that those who feel comfortable within a Church structure that doesn’t ask too much of them or who have attitudes that protect them from too much contact are going to feel uneasy with any change, with any proposal coming from the Gospel,” he said.
“The novelty of the Gospel however astonishes because it is essentially scandalous,” he continued. “Saint Paul tells us about the scandal of the cross, the scandal of the Son of God become man. But the evangelical essence is scandalous by those days’ criteria. By any worldly criteria, it is an outrageous essence.”
Once questioned by a German journalist about why he never talks about the middle class, “those who pay their taxes…” Francis said he thinks that maybe he is always talking about the middle class, just without calling it that.
“I use a term coined by the French novelist Malègue, who talks about ‘the middle class of sanctity,’” he said.
“I am always talking about parents, grandparents, nurses, the people who live to serve others, who raise their kids, who work… Those people are tremendously saintly!” he said.
“And they are also the ones who carry the Church onward: the ones that earn their living with dignity, that raise their children, that bury their dead, that care for their elders, instead of putting them into an old people’s home: that is our saintly middle class.”
From an economic point of view, the middle class is vanishing more and more, he said. But “the father, the mother, who celebrate their family, with their sins and their virtues, the grandfather, the grandmother,” he continued. “The family. At the center. That is ‘the middle class of sanctity.’”
A final comment reflected that Francis seems to be a very happy Pope. “The Lord is good and hasn’t taken away my good humor,” he said.
[…]
“O’Connell said he saw the discussion of denial of Communion to certain public figures as focusing too heavily on abortion, to the detriment of other issues.”
Yet another apostate bishop for the US Church. What a shame. Albany deserves better. Before Scharfenburger, there was Bishop Hubbard who got married in a civil ceremony. Perhaps someday the Church will return to the Catholic faith.
Well suited to follow the Francis I, Cdl Cupich, Leo XIV lineage. Where will accommodation take us if not the devaluation of the very reason we’re called to priesthood. To witness to what Christ and the Apostles taught.
The disappointment is confirmed with every passing day.
Bishop O’Connell is a highly intelligent man who works well with people. His canon law background and personal humility will be important in the very difficult work awaiting him in Albany. I am a bit surprised that he accepted the nomination. He’s a very self-effacing fellow. To brand him an apostate is ludicrous and beyond uncharitable.
Very simply: He insufficiently appreciates the gravity of abortion and the sanctity of the Eucharist. Who cares that he has a degree in Canon Law?
At a time when dioceses everywhere are being distilled into fewer parishes (Boston losing one third of its 126 parishes), what better time to teach the Eucharistic nature of the Catholic Church? As contrasted with the Lutheran redefinition as a confederation of “communities” with local leaders and rooted only in gospel values (while the Gospels witness, instead, directly to Jesus Christ as the Incarnation).
But, Pope Benedict clarified two different and concurrent abuses of the Eucharist:
FIRST: “In fact, the terminological shift from ‘Church’ to ‘community’ reveals more convincingly, perhaps, than is revealed anywhere else the inner process of the Reformation’s transposition of the structure of faith. For Luther, Church means community, whereas the Church as ‘successio,’ as the unity of binding tradition in a sacramental and personal form, loses for him here theological content. At best, she becomes an instrument, and organization […]; the organized and sacrally clothed obstacle to the ‘gospel’ (by which he means, not the four Gospels or the Bible as such, but the message of justification as the central concept of Holy Scripture).”
[In contrast with some literature from the Orthodox Churches, Benedict retained both a Eucharistic and a juridical Church. Yes, in each celebration of the Eucharist, the local assembly] “has the whole Lord; in the sacrament, it thus has also the whole Church and IS the whole Church. The Church is wholly present in the eucharistic assembly, that is, in every local assembly; to this, the ‘universal Church’ can add nothing more, for there is nothing ‘more’ than the eucharistic assembly.”
But SECOND: “To celebrate the Eucharist means to enter into union with the universal Church [!]—that is, with the one Lord and his one Body […] The outward sign that one cannot manipulate the Eucharist at will and that it belongs to the universal Church is the ‘successio apostolica’ [Apostolic Succession]: it means that no group can constitute itself a church but ‘becomes’ a church only by being received as such by the universal Church [….] Catholicity…is a central inner dimension of the very mystery of the Eucharist” (“Catholicity as the Formal Principle of Christianity” in “Principles of Catholic Theology”, Ignatius, 1987).
Reorganized parishes must not become community lifeboats. Might it be that rather than a Francis II, Pope Leo XIV is navigating doubly troubled waters? Yes, catastrophic moral issues (pro-abortion politicians presenting themselves for Communion), but also the risk of disrupted local parishes (not communities) drifting further from the Apostolic Succession—without which we have no universal Eucharist. Local pastors are, firstly, extensions of their bishops.
SUMMARY: About the Church within the Eucharist, and the Eucharist within the Church—as a canon lawyer, is Leo intent on maintaining unity instead of the “mess” inherited from Francis? The Albany appointment is also a canon lawyer.
Wishing Bishop the Reverend Mark O’Connell and his flock divine blessings.