Vatican City, Feb 3, 2018 / 01:25 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Several sources familiar with a proposed deal between the Chinese government and the Holy See have said the landmark agreement is not only a possibility, but an “imminent” certainty that could come to fruition as early as this spring.
While no specific timeline has been given for the agreement, “I’ve heard that it is imminent. And in China, in many areas and environments, it is already taken as a done deal,” Henry Cappello told CNA Feb. 2.
President of the “Caritas in Veritate International” organization, Cappello travels to China on a regular basis to offer training to the country’s bishops, and has strong ties with both those approved by the Holy See and those backed by the communist government’s Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association.
Cappello was in China two weeks ago, where Joseph Ma Yinglin, the government-backed bishop of Kunming, explained the proposed deal to him.
Without the Vatican’s consent, Ma was tapped by the patriotic association to head the diocese in 2006. After his episcopal ordination, Ma’s excommunication was declared by the Vatican, because he was ordained a bishop without approval from Rome. In 2010 he was appointed president of the Chinese patriotic association’s bishops’ conference.
As part of the agreement, which has been widely reported in recent days, the Vatican is expected to officially recognize seven bishops who are out of communion with Rome, including 2-3 bishops, one of which is Ma, whose excommunications have been explicitly declared by the Vatican.
Cappello said the proposal has already been discussed in China, and he believes “this is the direction that things are going.”
In 1951 Beijing broke official diplomatic ties with the Vatican. Since the 1980s they have loosely cooperated in episcopal appointments, however, the government has also named bishops without Vatican approval.
The result has led to a complicated and tense relationship between the patriotic association and the “underground Church,” which includes priests and bishops who are not recognized by the government.
Many Catholics parishioners and priests who have rejected government control have been imprisoned, harassed and otherwise persecuted.
Currently every bishop recognized by Beijing must be a member of the patriotic association, and many bishops appointed by the Vatican who are not recognized or approved by the Chinese government have faced government persecution.
Many of the Vatican-approved bishops in China are drawing near to the age of 75, when they are required to submit their request for retirement, and many others have died, yet few successors have been named, raising questions as to whether or not a deal might be drawing near.
Regarding the seven bishops who will be recognized should a new agreement come to pass, Msgr. Anthony Figueiredo, who has worked with the seven bishops in question through the Caritas in Veritate for the past several years and was in China in July 2017, confirmed the news on the bishops’ proposed approval, saying “if the Vatican is going to accept them and an accord be reached, it’s going to be for all of them. ”
In addition to recognizing the seven bishops, the new deal would reportedly outline government and Vatican roles in future episcopal selection, with the Vatican proposing names and the Chinese government reportedly having the final say over Vatican-vetted candidates.
Figueiredo, who lives in Rome, travels to China several times a year with Caritas in Veritate, said he has worked closely with the seven bishops in question, and “they have desired this communion for years.”
He personally delivered a letter from the bishops to the Pope in 2016, which he says told the Pope they wanted communion with Rome.
“They didn’t propose the deal, certainly not in the letter they gave me, because that’s what’s come afterwards,” he said, noting that the Vatican has on several occasions sent a delegation to Beijing to discuss the details of a possible agreement.
Figueiredo said the deal could come within the next few months, saying “I think it could well come this spring, absolutely.”
For his part, Cappello said he could neither confirm nor deny any specific details of the agreement, but that as of two weeks ago during his visit to China, “we are talking in the right direction” in terms of what’s already been reported.
He said that in his view, to say China would have the final say in bishop appointments oversimplifies the matter, because the Church in China is complicated and nuanced due to its relations with a communist state.
“The Chinese bishops in China would have a big say, but knowing that the Church in China is in a communist nation, then the Church and the State, the line between them is very narrow,” he said.
“There’s really no black and white, there’s overlap there, so of course there would be an input from the government…it will be a collaboration,” Cappello said.
And as someone that has traveled back and forth to various provinces in China for the past 25 years, he said he has seen progress he calls remarkable, in terms of relations in the past decade, and during the past five years in particular.
With this deal, Pope Francis “is building bridges,” he said, adding that he believes the stronger and more vocal opponents of the accord “are on the wrong side of history.”
One of the most outspoken critics of a deal with the Chinese government has been Cardinal Joseph Zen, Archbishop Emeritus of Hong Kong.
Zen was ordained a priest in 1961 and became a bishop in 1996. He has spent a long missionary career in China, and has long been a vocal protester against human-rights abuses in China.
His concerns have grown so great that he recently traveled to Rome to meet with Pope Francis about the proposed deal, after the Vatican asked Bishop Peter Zhuang Jianjian of Shantou in southern Guangdong province and Bishop Joseph Guo Xijin from the Mindong Diocese of China’s eastern Fujian province to retire so that bishops from the patriotic association could take their place.
In a letter posted to his blog Jan. 29, Cardinal Zen said that while his meeting with the Pope last week was consoling, he believes “the Vatican is selling out the Catholic Church in China…if they go in the direction which is obvious from all what they are doing in recent years and months.”
He implied that Francis was unfamiliar with the situation, and questioned whether there could be any mutual ground with “a totalitarian regime,” comparing this to a hypothetical agreement between St. Joseph and King Herod. He said that if the agreement that comes out is a poor one, “I would be more than happy to be the obstacle.”
The Vatican immediately responded, and in a Jan. 30 statement said Francis is well-informed of the dialogue with China, so “it is therefore surprising and regrettable that the contrary is affirmed by people in the Church, thus fostering confusion and controversy.”
In a Jan. 31 interview with Italian paper La Stampa , Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin spoke of the proposed deal, and, though he didn’t mention Zen’s comments specifically, said “no one should cling to the spirit of opposition to condemn his brother or use the past as an excuse to stir up new resentments and closures.”
On the deal, he said that “if someone is asked to make a sacrifice, small or great, it must be clear to everyone that this is not the price of a political exchange, but falls within the evangelical perspective of a greater good, the good of the Church of Christ”
Figueriedo told CNA he believes the Vatican was quick to counter Zen in order to protect the deal, because “it really takes just one person on the Chinese side to say ‘you shouldn’t go ahead,’” which he says has happened in the past.
Should a deal come to fruition, Cappello said he hoped it would help normalize life for Catholic faithful and allow priests, bishops and seminarians to receive much needed formation.
China is extremely complex, he said, explaining that the Vatican has reached a point of understanding the nation which is both “encouraging and remarkable.”
However, he said there are real reasons for concern based on past events, and that any agreement is something that those on both sides will need to grow into.
CNA reached out to the Vatican for confirmation, however, they declined to comment on the situation.
[…]
Romano Guardini foresaw one of the defining perils of modernity: man’s technological power would exceed his moral strength, and without spiritual growth to match it, he would be consumed by the very forces he unleashes.
Paul VI recognised that this dominion now extends not only over nature, but over man himself—his body, psyche, society, and even the mystery of life’s transmission. We no longer generate life; we produce it. The person becomes an object, fashioned by will and technique.
This unfolds within a culture of individualism and moral nihilism, where the criterion of the good is no longer objective truth but subjective self-determination. Relativism follows: if nothing is absolutely true, then everything is permitted—so long as it is willed. The person is reduced to a self-enclosed individual, cut off from relational truth. Freedom degenerates into solipsism.
Secularism completes this inversion: man lives as if God does not exist. Every natural or divine bond is now seen as an oppressive limit. The self becomes sovereign—and vulnerable to manipulation.
At root, this is an epistemological crisis. As Benedict XVI warned, reason has shrunk into a positivist shell, acknowledging only what can be measured and controlled. Spirit, value, meaning—these are exiled to the private realm, without public claim.
The result is a mutilated reason, unable to grasp the whole of human experience. Dignity, while often invoked, is detached from creation and reduced to the subject’s will. Body and soul are severed. Man is disincarnated, and the body becomes mere matter to be shaped or discarded at will. This is the gnostic anthropology now championed as liberation.
In this view, even invasive manipulation—surgical, hormonal, aesthetic—is not alienation but a creative act, an assertion of sovereign identity. The more unnatural, the more expressive of “authentic” selfhood. It is a reversal of creation: the body, once image of God, is now raw material; the will is the new demiurge.
We stand before a fundamental choice: either reality precedes and questions us—or we claim the right to redefine it, to recreate moral law and human nature itself. This modern revolution began with the fracture of reason (Ockham, Luther), continued through the Enlightenment’s rejection of divine law, and now culminates in gender ideology, where nature is seen as cultural invention.
The path forward begins with the rediscovery of reason enlarged by faith—what Benedict called “broad reason.” And with hope: the Eucharistic Lord reigns, and the Marian prophecies, from Fatima onward, promise the restoration of a moral and divine order. This is not merely resistance but evangelisation: to proclaim again the truth of the human person, made in the image of God.
The fact that Cardinal Eijk is a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life is reason for hope.
We read about: “International Chair of Bioethics Jérôme Lejeune, taking place in Rome from May 30–31. The theme of this year’s conference is ‘The Splendor of Truth in Science and Bioethics’.”
A most refreshing allusion to the encyclical, “The Splendor of the Truth” (St. John Paul II, “Veritatis Splendor,” 1993). https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html
Four key splendors:
“A separation, or even an opposition, is thus established in some cases between the teaching of the precept, which is valid and general, and the norm of the individual conscience, which would in fact make the final decision [not moral judgment] about what is good and what is evil. On this basis, an attempt is made to legitimize so-called ‘pastoral’ solutions contrary to the teaching of the Magisterium, and to justify a ‘creative’ hermeneutic according to which the moral conscience is in no way obliged, in every case, by a particular negative precept [‘thou shalt not…’]” ( n. 56).
“The relationship between faith and morality [!] shines forth with all its brilliance in the unconditional respect due to the insistent demands of the personal dignity of every man, demands protected by those moral norms which prohibit without exception [!] actions which are intrinsically evil” (n. 90).
“The Church is no way the author or the arbiter [synodality?] of this [‘moral’] norm” (n. 95).
“This is the first time, in fact, that the Magisterium of the Church [!] has set forth in detail the fundamental elements of this [‘moral’] teaching, and presented the principles for the pastoral discernment necessary in practical and cultural situations which are complex and even crucial” (n. 115).
“So we see that the gender discussion was very strong, you know, a few years ago,” he said. “They were almost pushing gender theory in society, culture, and also educational programs at elementary schools.”
By “they”, we can know through both Faith and reason, you count among the atheist materialist over population alarmist globalist , residing physically within The Catholic Church, attempting to create a counterfeit magisterium , with a counter church , and a counterfeit Papacy, that claims “If there is a union of a private nature, there is neither a third party, nor is society affected”, ipso facto deny ing The Unity Of The Holy Ghost, The Spirit Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love Between The Father And His Only Begotten Son, Who Proceeds From Both The Father And His Only Begotten Son, ipso facto denying our Call to be “Temples of The Holy Ghost” and thus our Call to Holiness, ipso facto denying The Divinity of The Most Holy Blessed Trinity, Father, Son, And Holy Ghost, and thus ipso facto placing oneself in a state of apostasy. This sentence alone is all the evidence one needs to recognize that Jorge Bergoglio was Baptized, but was certainly not converted and thus in communion with Christ and His One, Holy, Catholic, And Apostolic Church prior to his election to The Papacy.
Jorge Bergoglio’s “refusal of submission to the supreme pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him“, was evident, prior to his election to the Papacy, when his heresy was manifested and made public ,in his book, On Heaven And Earth, on page 117, when he stated, in regards to same sex sexual relationships and thus same sex sexual acts, “If there is a union of a private nature, there is neither a third party, (No Holy Ghost?),nor is society affected. Now, if the union is given the category of marriage, there could be children affected. Every person needs a male father and a female mother that can help shape their identity.”
Jorge Bergoglio defected from The Catholic Church , prior to his election to The Papacy, by denying sin done in “private” relationship is sin, denying The Sanctity of the marital act within The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, and that we, who are Baptized Catholic, are Called to be, “Temples of The Holy Ghost”. (God’s Universal Call To Holiness), and thus deny The Unity of The Holy Ghost, making it appear as if it is Loving and Merciful to desire that we or our Beloved remain in our sin, and not desire to overcome our sinful inclinations and become transformed by accepting Salvational Love, God’s Gift of Grace and Mercy. If it were true that it is Loving and Merciful that we desire that we or our beloved remain in our sin and not desire to overcome our disordered inclination , and become transformed through Salvational Love, God’s Gift of Grace and Mercy, we would have no need for our only Savior, Jesus The Christ.
If Pope Leo is not aware, he must be made aware, as to deny The Unity Of The Holy Ghost (Filioque), The Perfect Divine Eternal Love Between The Father And His Only Begotten Son, Is To Deny The Divinity Of The Most Holy Blessed Trinity, which is apostasy.
Jesus’ Death is The Perfect Sacrifice Of Perfect Divine Eternal Love , atoning for our sins, and makes reconciling us to God now possible, creating The Bridge from Death to Life Everlasting with The Most Holy Blessed Trinity. There is only one Bridge to Heaven, “No one can come to My Father, except Through Me”.
Let us not forget that Pope Benedict addressed all the issues of the atheist materialistic overpopulation alarmist globalists and their ilk, who are attempting to subsist within The Catholic Church , establish a counterfeit magisterium, and a counterfeit papacy in communion with those whose agenda, is not to serve Christ, but to serve the UN’s Agenda for Sustainable Development, a global plan that is anti Christ, because it ipso facto denies God, The Ordered Communion Of Perfect Complementary Divine Eternal Love, In The Unity Of The Holy Ghost, Is The Author Of Love, Of Life, And Of Marriage, rendering onto the UN, what belongs to God, and thus illuminating the fact that the UN Declaration is, in essence pagan at its core.
“When the freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker Himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God, as the image of God at the core of his being. The defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.” – Pope Benedict’s Christmas Address 2012
ND
About this comment. Is this the sixth time you’ve posted it, or only the fifth? And what does it have to do with Pope Leo XIV?
The study of the mind reveals a diverse spectrum of conditions where individuals hold strong convictions about their identity that diverge significantly from typical understanding. These can range from believing one is a famous person (historical figures like Jesus Christ or even aliens), to experiencing multiple personalities, or identifying as an animal (“furries”), a god, or even the opposite sex. The term “gender theory,” while referring to an academic framework, is sometimes mistakenly applied in discussions of these complex identity issues. It’s crucial to distinguish between academic theories and conditions where the mind may be experiencing a form of confusion, potentially akin to what occurs in conditions like schizophrenia.
I do not favor using or supporting the supposed “academic” field of gender theory. The conversation identity issues and confusion.
Thanks be to God for a voice of reason within the Vatican. Let’s hope he is one of many under the new pontificate. The culture shift in the US has been helped along by a new administration that sees it for what it is and rather than shoving it down our throats they have pulled on the reins.
P.S. The Pillar has an interview with Cardinal Eijk.
Daniel in the Lion’s Den that is today’s Netherlands.
There was another interview recently where he explained how the Netherlands got to where it is today.
P.P.S. Cardinal Eijk: I don’t give up – The Pillar, Oct. 30, 2023.
I am no champion for the LGBTQ “community”, but I ask, can we injure those whom we consider “evil”? I have a concern that our approach to “converting” LGBTQs is isolating them and perpetuating violence against them. My “holy” Italian Catholic neighbor disowned my good high school friend, her son, when he “came out” at age 18. He moved to another state.
Recently, DOD Secretary Hegseth was ordered to “isolate TG military soldiers to remove them.” Then, after an investigation, the TGs were found to be excellent military officers. When I was a Naval officer at the Bureau of Naval Personnel, an operator showed me two sets of discharge cards. I asked, Why are there two stacks. He said, “one is queers who will receive undesirable discharges.” I ordered him to remerge the cards.
LOrd save my soul.
“I am no champion for the LGBTQ “community”, but I ask, can we injure those whom we consider “evil”?”
Yet you constantly defend and excuse the LGBT lobby in your posts. Not very self-aware. Speaking the truth and allowing LGBT people to experience the consequences of their sin is not injury or evil. Stop defending the indefensible.
“Yet you constantly defend and excuse the LGBT lobby in your posts.” Your recall is amazing. Please tell me when I said anything relative to the LGBTQ lobby? My campaign to protect all life remains firm. My cruelly disowned close friend remains in my mind.
Remember, Jesus said while protecting the harlot from a raging all-male crowd, saying, “let HE who is without sin cast the first stone.” Basically, he means to HAKEN, we need more introspection.
morganD:
#1. We (the Catholic Church) do NOT consider anyone evil. We do say, as a Church, that certain acts are intrinsically evil. There are no persons who are unredeemable. None!
#2. When someone engages in persistent sin, despite efforts to counsel him or her, there comes a point in the relationship when to maintain the relationship pretending there is no sin, would be to do that person harm. Just because someone says their feelings are “hurt” because you cannot condone evil practices they are engaged in, does NOT mean you aren’t doing the most loving thing for them in those circumstances.
I saw this shared by Martina Navratilova about gender confused men competing in women’s sports:
“Gender ideology is male entitlement peddled as progressive.”
DiogenesRedux. I said I was no champion of LGBTQ. But I see weakness in our approach to evangelism.
You might remember when former Minnesota congresswoman, Michelle Bachman and her husband Marcus opened a “conversion therapy clinic” called “Pray the Gay away.” It was open only to men.
Times: The therapists at Bachmann & Associates aren’t very good at turning gay people straight.
The clinic was closed by authorities because they did not keep the required documents showing patient results.
I feel that our dogma does not address the potential pain inflicted by the isolation of Gays. Perhaps we might use a more holistic approach.
Thanks.