The evangelical Protestant “megachurch” that I attended in high school was filled with former Catholics. Many of whom had been specifically targeted and proselytized by evangelicals who encouraged them to make a personal decision for Christ and invite Him into their hearts. The same trend was true when I joined a Presbyterian denomination after college—half of the elders at my church were raised Catholic.
According to a 2023 Public Religion Research Institute survey, more than one third of white evangelical Protestants and more than one third of white mainline/non-evangelical Protestants in America are former Catholics. Many prominent evangelical thinkers, such as Chris Castaldo, Brian Lee, and Mike Sabo, were raised Catholic. And in Latin America, where I currently live, evangelical missionaries are achieving incredible success in persuading Catholics to abandon Rome in favor of various Protestant churches.
I was confused, therefore, to read Protestant writer Andrew Voigt’s recent article “Roman Catholic Apologetics Is Surging Online. Intended Audience? Protestants,” at The Gospel Coalition, a prominent Reformed Protestant website. Voight asserts:
Where Protestant apologetics is more focused on winning the secular world to Christ, Roman Catholic apologetics often has a different audience in mind: their ‘separated brethren.’ Targeting Protestants is explicitly encouraged.
Nor is Voigt the only Protestant to think Catholics are, in some sense, disproportionately evangelizing Protestants. He cites philosopher William Lane Craig’s recent comment that, “many Catholic apologists seem to be more exercised and worked up about winning Protestants to Catholicism than they are with winning non-Christians to Christ.”
Yet another distraction
The claim that Catholic apologists are—unfairly or even manipulatively—hyper-focused on trying to convert Protestants belies the plentiful examples of Catholic evangelistic work directed towards the irreligious or those of other religions. Bishop Barron’s Word on Fire, which Voigt cites as an example of a Catholic ministry focusing its energies on Protestants, has published reams of content directed at the unchurched. The acclaimed Fr. Robert Spitzer, who has published several books with Ignatius Press, runs the Magis Center, whose mission is to communicate the intersection between science, reason, and faith. Catholic Answers, the Coming Home Network, and this publication have all featured content directed at Muslims. Prominent Catholic apologists such as Matt Fradd, Fr. Michael Schmitz, Patrick Madrid, and Peter Kreeft have devoted much time and effort to evangelize non-Christians.
Yet even if Voigt’s claim is true, what would that show? Catholics have always been called to focus their energies on converting everyone who is not Catholic. Protestants thus fall squarely in the “potential converts” category. And wouldn’t it make sense, especially in a (majority Protestant) American context, that Catholic converts from Protestantism would expend much energy seeking to persuade those in the traditions from which they came? Moreover, given all the Protestant energies to persuade Catholics to abandon Rome, don’t Catholics have a right to defend their own beliefs and show where, how, and why Protestants are wrong?
This amounts to yet another Protestant distraction from actually arguing about the content of Protestant-Catholic disagreements. Sadly, much Protestant discussion of Catholicism falls within this description. As I noted in an article for CWR last year, even prominent and respected Protestant thinkers, rather than evaluating the best arguments for leaving Protestantism for Catholicism, engage in such diversionary tactics. One such tactic is psychologically informed speculation as to the “why” of such converts apart from the explicitly named reasons such people give for swimming the Tiber.
Such approaches are patronizing, even condescending. I’m sure there are Catholics who do the same thing, ignoring whatever actual reasons former Catholics give for becoming Protestants. Whoever is doing it, they should stop. I’m not interested in engaging in some Freudian psychoanalysis as to the underlying, unstated explanations for people’s decisions, and neither should you be. If a person says he converted to Protestantism for Catholicism because of [fill in the blank] reason, then let’s evaluate the legitimacy of that reason. If he really converted because of some unspoken childhood trauma or because he is secretly looking for a level of emotional or social stability that he isn’t finding in his current religious tradition, that’s between him and God.
Vapid argumentation
Voigt continues his argument by claiming that “Roman Catholic apologists sometimes misrepresent actual Catholic doctrine,” by attempting to present theological terminology as largely harmonious with “Protestant views on soteriology, among other doctrines.” Unfortunately, he doesn’t give any examples (or even links) to substantiate that claim, so it’s difficult, if not impossible, to evaluate. Is there some Catholic apologist out there misrepresenting Catholic teaching? Undoubtedly. Does that somehow undermine the Catholic position? No, it does not.
There are more assertions. Says Voigt: “Behind the curtain of liturgy, aesthetics, and reverent ceremony is a mountain of doctrinal, dogmatic, and ritualistic accretions that bind the consciences of faithful Roman Catholics.” These accretions, he claims, were “unknown to the early church,” and “include teachings on purgatory, the Marian dogmas, transubstantiation in the Eucharist, papal infallibility, and priestly celibacy.” He blames St. John Henry Newman for this, because Catholics often refer to Newman’s thesis of doctrinal development.
At least here Voigt provides some examples, even if he doesn’t give any substantive evidence to uphold those examples. In truth, the historical evidence isn’t there. For example, regarding purgatory, we could cite second-century documentation such as inscriptions of Christian dead (such as St. Abercius of Hierapolis asking readers to pray for him), the Acts of Paul and Thecla, and the Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity. In the third century, Tertullian notes that Christians “offer sacrifices for the dead” (Chaplet 3) and that widows pray for the souls of their dead husbands (Monogamy 10). In his Letters, third-century St. Cyprian of Carthage speaks of the dead needing to be “cleansed and long purged by fire.”
Extrabiblical Marian devotion is visible as early in the late-first century Ascension of Isaiah and the second-century Odes of Solomon. St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus of Lyon describe Mary as the new Eve. The Protoevangelium of James (c. A.D. 150) hints at Mary’s perpetual virginity, while the third-century Origen says it explicitly (Commentary on Matthew), as do the fourth-century writings of St. Athanasius of Alexandria (Four Discourses Against the Arians), St. Jerome (Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary), and St. Augustine (Holy Virginity).
As for transubstantiation, early-second century St. Ignatius of Antioch called the Eucharist “the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh that suffered for our sins,” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans), while second-century St. Justin Martyr said the Eucharist was “both the flesh and blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apologist). The pope’s preeminent authority is also found in St. Ignatius of Antioch (Letter to the Romans), as well in the second-century writings of St. Dionysius of Corinth (Letter to Pope Soter) and St. Irenaeus of Lyon (Against Heresies).
Voigt refers to his heart as “heavy knowing that, in the pursuit of church tradition perceived as rooted and reverent, many believers will find their consciences bound to fallible doctrines.” In response, I’d ask him on what basis someone determines what counts as legitimate early Church teaching and tradition? That’s especially relevant given his exhortation that “local church pastors should incorporate the wisdom of church fathers in sermons.” Is Vought suggesting Protestant pastors should begin teaching about apostolic succession, purgatory, Marian devotion, transubstantiation, or the preeminent teaching authority of the bishop of Rome? What about baptismal regeneration, intercession of the saints, or the deuterocanonical books of the Bible?
Yes, we Catholics do affirm the idea of doctrinal development, found not only in the writings of St. John Henry Newman but also in those of the fifth-century St. Vincent of Lerins. It’s also implicit in the very notion of ecumenical councils such as Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Chalcedon, which made explicit and affirmed such doctrinal concepts as Jesus being of the same substance (homoousia) as God the Father, the Trinity as three persons (hypostases) in one nature (ousia), or Mary being the Mother of God (theotokos).
None of that language explicitly appears in Holy Scripture—it is all the result of biblical interpretation, and quite hotly contested interpretation in the early centuries, at that! In that sense, Protestants, inasmuch as they affirm those councils, also believe in a form of doctrinal development.
Catholics should do what we always have done
Voigt ends his piece declaring that “Protestants value tradition (lowercase t) when it aligns with and upholds the truths of Scripture,” and explains that the Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura (Scripture alone) “subject[s] church doctrines, traditions, and leadership to the higher authority of Scripture.”
Yet that just amounts to testing such doctrines and traditions according to the individual’s interpretation of Scripture, effectively making individual Protestants into the ultimate interpretive authority of the Bible. It also presumes the Protestant doctrine of perspicuity—the idea that the Bible is so clear that any individual should be able to determine what is necessary for salvation or the essentials of the faith—an illogical doctrine based on question-begging argumentation, as I explain in my book The Obscurity of Scripture.
I would argue that Voigt is at least right about one thing: Catholics such as myself are indeed directing significant energy to persuade their Protestant brothers and sisters to join the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We are studying, writing, and praying with the hope that our Lord will help our Protestant brethren in Christ to make the same decision many of us once did.
This is not a historical anomaly. St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Francis de Sales wrote long treatises against Protestantism in the wake of the Reformation. Cardinal James Gibbons, Union General William S. Rosecrans, and writer Orestes Brownson performed Catholic apologetics aimed at Protestants in nineteenth-century America.
Former-Protestants-turned-Catholic once prayed for and persuaded me to return to the Catholicism of my youth, and it changed my life. I, in turn, am trying to do the same for Voigt and anyone else out there willing to consider the claims of the Catholic Church.
(Editor’s note: Andrew Voigt’s name was misspelled in the original posting of this essay. We apologize for the error.)
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Voight, Vouch, Vought. Which is it?
Interesting excerpt from Hillaire Belloc’s The Great Heresies on Mohammad. Could have come straight from Luther, Calvin or Zwingli.
(Katherine Bennett on Catholic Unscripted, Mar. 5)
what is point of this article? is it to inform catholics about talking to Protestants ? etc
any catholic shld know by now the difference… most of above is wordy n personal , waste of my time
teaching doctrine ? read catechism.
Kierkegaard famously criticized Europe about sending missionaries, when European’s barely attended church.
much worse now, ignorance n apathy everywhere
To me the crisis right now in apologetics is that many Protestants are converting to Orthodoxy rather than to Catholicism. It is a lot easier to dunk on obviously stupid Protestant doctrines like sola scriptura than but approaching an Orthodox interlocutor requires greater preparation. Also we will need more than apologetics: we will need to reform ourselves and our Church so that it not only is but appears to be traditional, especially liturgically traditional.
“Are Catholics too focused on converting Protestants?’
That’s just about the funniest thing I’ve read in a long, long time. “Catholics” (whoever they are defined to be) are not into converting ANYONE. Yes, we’re open to receiving people into the Faith but the majority who convert wind up leaving.
Would that it were true that Catholics were interested in evangelizing protestants or anyone else for that matter.
You write: “Yes, we’re open to receiving people into the Faith but the majority who convert wind up leaving.”
This appears to be a dubious claim. Please provide your source and stats for this claim. Aside from this, the remainder of your comments are quite insightful.
There’s a 95% chance that any Protestant who attends Mass and hears a meandering vapid sermon, will never set foot in a Catholic church again.
Quite possibly, but you seem to suggest that a Protestant isn’t as likely to hear a bad sermon or homily in his home church.
By default, any Protestant sermon is bad if it includes any of their heretical beliefs.
Reading this article on a Saturday morning after attending Stations of the Cross last night. There were maybe 25 in attendance, most over the age of 60 and none under 30 or even 40. Why have we (I) failed in our mission? As Jesus said, “When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” And to quote Ricky Ricardo “Lucy (fill in you name here) , you got some ‘splainin’ to do”
Kinda find this article as a joke. While the Catholic Media including EWTN, Relevant Radio, and CWR have an evangelizing bent to their approach, most Catholics, I would say 95%, are not trying to convert a protestant to Catholic Faith. If they are like like me, I pray for them, to come to the faith, but that’s it. Most of my family, friends or acquaintances, who are protestants sadly don’t know much about their faith or Catholic faith. Their knowledge base is limited to what they like, such as the real estate they own, the car club they belong etc. The faith interest is not there.
Also the more I observe those who are Catholics I find are essentially clueless about the faith, such as a Catholic neighbor who at one time was on a committee advising the pastor, had a sign on his lawn supporting a candidate who is pro abortion. I almost went to house to confront him, not a go idea, but anyway wimped out.
On the other side, I find it somewhat humorous that when I do engage a protestant on a faith issue, I find they shockingly know little. They are protestant because they that’s the way they were taught, and don’t care to learn anything else. To push people out of their bias is hard, or nearly impossible. To be frank I think most people for the most part are dug in on their stupidity, which to be nice we can call it cognitive bias.
Now in saying this, when I watch EWTN’s Coming Home Show, I am awed by those that switch from being an atheist or some protestant denomination to Catholic. The walk for them seems to include a well thought out process and a final leap of faith. I am duly impressed and humbled by their stories. When I hear them, my thought is I am am so glad I was raised a Catholic and provided the grace to not leave.
Deacon Peitler above –
Some Catholics, including some converts, are, in fact, interested in converting Protestants (and Muslims even).
To repeat, see Catholic Unscripted, Mar. 5.
Cleo, I agree and realize that some Catholics are interested in evangelizing. That said, they are woefully few. I’m afraid but if a parish comnunity were to be an evangelizing one, the pastor would have to be ON FIRE WITH AN EVANGELIZING ZEAL.
Chalk begins: “Many [lapsed Catholics] had been specifically targeted and proselytized by evangelicals who encouraged them to make a personal decision for Christ and invite Him into their hearts.”
Hence, sola Scriptura. But wait…
My own personal history includes an encounter with a saintly, humble, and therefore truly ecumenical Dominican priest. Who, as an inquiring student at a secular university, had converted from detached sola Scriptura Methodism—by earlier sneaking into a Catholic Church where he discovered (!) the mysterious Real Presence at a Mass and Eucharistic Adoration…
From the heart: “Is that really YOU, Jesus?”
Later he often testified to all who would listen, of his “personal decision” AND that as a solidly Catholic priest he was still “a Protestant at heart[?]” AND, too, that he “did not leave anything behind when he converted from Protestantism, but found what I always thought I had!”
His coming home was still a few years prior to Vatican II…
Unappreciated in the confusion stirred up by termites after Vatican II is the significant focus of Dei Verbum. And, how the young Ratzinger (advisor to Cardinal Frings) had rewritten the preliminary schema to center directly on the fact (!) of Jesus Christ—the event of the Incarnation—rather than more routinely on secondary writings about Christ, as found on previous Church letterhead. Instead of putting the cart before the horse, Dei Verbum centers firstly on the astonishing reality of Jesus Christ—which on points of controversy then leads to very needed doctrinal clarifications as supplied for example by the Council of Trent, and in the post-Vatican II Catechism, and to the graced and Eucharistic/Mystical Body of Christ as reaffirmed in CCC 1374.
The gift of the Catholic Church as institutional an evangelical, both, because “sent” (apostello) by the hands of the historical and personal Jesus Christ, Himself, and therefore as recorded in His living Church’s proclamation and writing of Scripture: e.g., Matthew 28:19-20.
As an evangelical Protestant convert to Catholicism (along with my late husband, our two daughters, and our son-in-law), I am SO GLAD that back in the early 2000s, stellar Protestants like Tim Staples (Pentecostal), Scott Hahn (Presbyterian), David B. Currie (Baptist), Thomas Howard (Evangelical/Anglican), and many others wrote their conversion stories and included their apologetics for converting, mostly based on the Bible that Protestants know so well.
I am also so glad that Catholics are utilizing more of the “Protestant evangelistic strategies” that are so effective in reaching out to non-Catholics, as well as inspiring to faithful Catholics; e.g., youth conferences, prayer conferences, contemporary music, youth groups, Bible studies, etc.
I suggest that the main reason why so many Catholics are focused on praying and working for the conversion of their Protestant relatives and friends is that these folks ARE their beloved relatives and friends, and they want them to be part of the Catholic Church that love. It’s hard to see people you love immersed in a religion that is heretical.
I also think that Protestants and Catholics are coming together because God has always worked to answer Jesus’ prayer that “we might be one”–that prayer is being answered at this time in world history!
As for why most of us don’t reach out to those who reject God and religion–well, most of us work and play in “religious” circles” and we truly don’t know many folks who are not involved with some form of Christian religion, although quite a few of us ARE involved with offering friendship to non-Catholic neighbors, as well as giving offerings and volunteering with various ministries to the poor, prisoners, the sick, etc.
Some of us have Jewish and Muslim friends, or friends who are involved in a cult like LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or 7th Day Adventism–and we have concluded that our best witness to these friends is to simply be faithful friends and pray that others who have converted from their particular cult to Catholicism will be able to reach them with the truth of Catholic Christianity in a way that makes sense to them.
I am very grateful that Catholic musicians are writing beautiful contemporary Catholic Christian music that I and many Protestants enjoy listening to on the radio and at concerts. Matt Maher works with Protestant Christian musicians–I think that is what we should be doing–working side by side with Protestants and allowing them to eventually recognize that our Christianity is not a “mystery cult”. Back when abortion became a more prominent issue in American Evangelical Protestantism (many used to think that abortion was OK, until Dr. James Dobson set us all straight!), many of us were working alongside of Catholics for the first time in our lives to help women involved in a crisis pregnancy–I personally think that God used this horrible issue to begin to bring many American Evangelical Protestants into Holy Mother Church because we witnessed in person the love and care that Catholics have for their fellow human beings.
Again, I am grateful to Catholics who reached out to Evangelical Protestants like me and I’m sure many other converts would enthusiastically agree with me.
Greetings, Sharon, I always appreciate your comments. It is a good thing that there are diverse ways the Spirit both teaches and moves individuals to convert to Catholicism. I remember walking into a Catholic church decades ago. There was an abundance of felt banner-like things around the chapel and the music was strictly something I did not equate to spiritual music or hymns. I walked out prior to the end of the meeting and never went back. It took decades for me to consider Catholicism again.
I recognize that my interests are personal. I resist almost any attempt to manipulate my emotions while at the same time I seek for the work of the Spirit. The Eucharist played a major role in my conversion along with the Rosary. High church style is harder for me, yet I find a Latin Mass to be deeply uplifting.
Having been raised and schooled by a conservative Methodist faction which left the United Methodist as too liberal in the 1960s, although I learned my Bible, there was no spiritual life offered, nor answers to a rebellious youth, and pretty sad when a teen can pose questions which stump the older folk.
I found the desired spiritual riches in the Catholic Church, as well as very logical answers to those questions of rebellious youth.
Unfortunately, I also found, and find, the vast majority of Catholics ignorant of those spiritual riches, as well as ignorant of the logical structure which comes tumbling down like a house of cards when any ancient assertion is changed.
And also find the vast majority of Catholics, if concerned with anything past rote ethnic/cultural performance, concerned only with arguments, while ignoring those spiritual riches, and no more closer to God than those they seek to convert (pagans) or reconcile (protestants), and doing tremendous damage to the reputation of the Church and endangering souls. To those performative Catholics I would say, convert yourself, first.
http://www.mysticprayer.blogspot.com
“Although I learned my Bible, there was no spiritual life offered.”
Sorry, but I’ll have to call you out on that assertion. Having read Wesley and being familiar with “Methodism,” it’s difficult to make the argument that there was no spiritual life offered.
My church…but, for that matter, you’d need dig long and hard to find any truly contemplative spiritual direction leading to an experience of God in any denomination of protestantism, be it Methodist, Baptist, what have you…and certainly would not have unbroken century after century of practice showing undeniable good fruits of that practice (as well as undeniable bad fruits when that practice neglected). The ancient Churches proved to be an excellent test bed for finding what worked and what did not, and any protestant sect which uses a method which actually works undoubtedly will be found to be using one of the ancient methods.
http://www.mysticprayer.blogspot.com
We don’t live in the ancient world. And the fact that evangelical churches are growing and Catholic churches are not undermines your argument considerably. All things being equal, people are more likely to meet God in good bible teaching churches than in a Catholic church.
Yes, my Nana was raised Methodist and was a deeply charitable and truly sincere Christian woman. A real role model to me.
Funeral Face, if you mean the Novus Ordo mass, I certainly don’t blame a Protestant for never again setting foot in a Catholic Church. I myself will NEVER involve the Novus Ordo in any attempt to draw anyone the Catholic Church.
It will be noted that the Dominican priest convert mentioned by Peter Beaulieu was captured pre-Vatican II by the Traditional Latin Mass. What an underappreciated power and grace we have in the TLM. So sad.
Brother Joseph is correct!
The priest’s love for Latin began when he was a student at a Quaker school in Brooklyn, where he studied “Caesar’s Commentaries” in Latin (!), at the age of 12. He already loved the vocabulary and sentence structure. Moving to Seattle in 1925 at the age of 13, he later majored in Latin and Classics, and finished Phi Beta Kappa and the best student at the University of Washington (President’s Medalist of 1934). Entered the Catholic Church in 1935 and then went directly to the Dominican seminary in Oakland.
Was assigned to Blessed Sacrament Church from 1960 to 1998 (a Gothic Revival landmark), and in almost all the troubled years after the Council until his death (in 1998), he regularly said the Latin Mass (not the Trent Mass, but the Dominican from a century earlier and differing in only one or two phrases) and without ecclesial opposition. He also said the Novus Ordo and even some Folk Masses. But the centerpiece was always the sacramental Real Presence in the universal Church assembly, and which/who had originally attracted him. Rather than, say, the lesser experience of only the sola Scriptura local community (Luther’s and the Protestant substitution). In the 1980s he conducted five bible classes each week, for Catholics and others whom he loved equally.
Much more might be said about the likes of Fr. Joseph Fulton, O.P. who still serves as a genuine sign for our uprooted and disrupted and times…
“. . . convert yourself first” – Bob above.
Amen. A lot of Catholics don’t know their faith very well.
In addition, a lot don’t know what is amiss in Protestantism. Since Vatican II, many ordinary, well-meaning Catholics have gotten the message (rightly or wrongly) that one denomination is as good as another. We are now getting the same message re Islam (from the Vatican, no less).
If someone cannot point to at least sources answering that deepest yearning of, “How can I know this God is real, and how can I experience that and know it’s not only a hopeful fairy tale or sham?”, then what exactly are they “evangelizing”, and what “good news” are they proclaiming, if they lack this themselves? Membership in a club where if you follow the rules and eat a magic cookie weekly then you might get to heaven if you try to be good?
Historic statistics portray a Christian apocalypse. Never the twain shall meet?
Luther, a Catholic Priest did it. Well, maybe he overplayed his hand. NCR: Amazingly, there are 47,000 protestant denominations without a single accepted leader. Catholics have 14 million members worldwide and are headed by the Vicar of Christ.
Who formed the Protestant opposition? In the 11th century, the church offered indulgences to those who joined the Crusades and later sold certificates of indulgences to raise funds, giving rise to the abusive marketing tactics criticized by Luther.
Come on, Martin. Only a simple sales blunder? How does a Protestant “mega-church” compare to the? Perhaps more importantly is when we Catholics stop calling thou “our SEPERATED BRETHREN?”
I see some major differences that must be overcome.
There are drastic differences in the sacraments. Catholics have seven. Protestants have only two. And, Protestants have no Vicar of Christ. They ordain women. and more…
Perhaps we all should pray and look forward to the day when evangelism is no longer part of our vocabulary.
There are approximately 1.3 to 1.4 billion Catholics worldwide.
I did it again. Either my old eyes are failing me or my math. However, my article discusses the significant realities facing Catholic prostylization.
Thanks.
“Go and make disciples of all nations” is not “part of our vocabulary”.
It is a Divine Commission. We fail to observe it at our own peril.
I’m continually amused at the critique offered by those scandalized by the precious reality of indulgences. The offering of one’s life, charitible contributions are not worthy of then acknowledgement of grace drawn from the redemptive act of Jesus Christ and the merits of the Saints?
Get a Bible. Hopefully one not edited by Luther.
Is it possible that MorganD is calling out Tetzel’s “abusive marketing tactics” rather than indulgences as such?
Here’s one take on tin-cup theology–with certificates!–as the unnecessary and random flashpoint that eventually escalated into the theological heresies of the Reformation:
“…Many of the townspeople came successively [to the Augustinian monk Martin Luther], and confessed themselves guilty of great excesses. Adultery, licentiousness, usury, ill-gotten gains—such are the crimes acknowledged to the minister of the Word by those souls of which he will one day have to give an account. He reprimands, corrects, instructs. But what is his astonishment when these individuals reply that they will not abandon their sins?….Greatly shocked, the pious monk declares that since they will not promise to change their lives, he cannot absolve them. The unhappy creatures then appeal to their letters of indulgence; they show them, and maintain their virtue. But Luther replies that he has nothing to do with these papers; and adds: EXCEPT YE REPENT, YE SHALL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH [italics]. They cry out and protest; but the doctor is immovable. They must cease to do evil, and learn to do well, or else there is no absolution. ‘Have a care,’ added he, ‘how you listen to the clamours of these indulgence-merchants: you have better things to do than buy these licenses which they sell at so vile a price [“For polygamy it was six ducats; for sacrilege and perjury, nine ducats; for murder, eight ducats; for witchcraft, two ducats….For infanticide…four livres tourquois; and for paricide or fratricide, one ducat”].” (Source: Protestant scholar; J.H. Merle D’Aubigne, Geneva, “History of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century,” Vols. I-IV, 1850 with later reprints; 700 fine-print double-column pages).
Andrew Voigt appears to inhabit another planet. If only his concern reflected reality. When Roman Catholicism again has any ambition to draw men and women to Christ it had best address those who have fled from it while it has immersed itself in zeitgeist. There is nothing enticing about a Church which has abandoned its mandate from Christ and embraced wokeism. It paints itself a tragic catastrophe.
Hard words? Even more difficult to write.
We are in the middle of a cataclysm and the best of us are afraid to acknowledge it, to speak it. While the opportunity to turn this around appears around the corner, it is quite evident that those who can make a turn for authentic reform are only bent on perpetuating decay.
It’s a problem for the Catholic Church to attract converts when She has been reduced to just another NGO getting hundreds of millions of dollars from the Federal government to do, not the Church’s work, but the government’s work. If I wanted to be a member of an NGO, there are thousands to chose from.
No, I am Christ’s and NOT part of some NGO.
In my experience, Roman Catholics are more focused on the Roman Catholic Church tha Christ himself. It’s easy to get lost in the Pope, the Clergy, the Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc. They refuse Protestant Christians to participate in communion, which they teach is the body of Christ. Is Christian unity only to be found in the Roman Catholic religion or is it to be found in Christ and one Spirit. Many Roman Catholics who espouse the authority of the Church, vote for a Democratic platform that promotes abortion and Gay Marriage. The face of the of Roman Catholic for much of the Protestant public are Joe Bidden and Nancy Pelosi. Is it any wonder why so many search for Christ outside the Roman Catholic Church. Lead people to Christ, not to Roman Catholicism; this is the path to salvation. I say this in Love, not in condemnation.
And in my experience Protestants are more focused on the quoting Scriptures (the parts they like) and declaring themselves saved, condemning Catholics (and sometimes Orthodox), having “a positive worship service”, inter alia.
As for your exclusion from The Eucharist, this is for your benefit. It would be irresponsible to offer Communion to somebody who has not received proper instruction or cannot (will not) fathom the great gift. You will note that small children do not receive it either, since they cannot properly comprehend reception.
One of those passages that gets glossed over is 1 Corinthians 11:29,
You will note that all translations, including KJV variants carry the same serious and severe admonition. We take that seriously, and care more for your eternal soul than a false sense of community.
And your withering contempt is palpable, so spare us your declarations of love. Insincerity is a form of lying. How dare you invoke Christ in your attempted subversion, lying and blasphemy have a sulphureous stench. May God have mercy on your soul.
So capably said, James. There is, as you say, nothing enticing about a church that has abandoned Christ and embraced wokeism. The Catholic Church is indeed in the midst of a catastrophe which is of its own making. ‘By their fruits they shall be known’ does come to mind. The fruits of Vatican II are few, if any, and most bitter indeed.
Nevertheless the proposed actions of the hierarchy worldwide appear to be more of the same bitter fruits along with some ‘new and exciting ones all dressed up as ‘synodality’ the answer to all the preceding decades of decay and destruction.
Just out of curiosity Mr Bergeron, everyone with your last name that I’ve known has been Catholic. Were you brought up Catholic and later became Protestant?
There are many sincere Protestants who take their faith seriously. But there are many others who are as poor Christian witnesses as some of the Catholic politicians you mentioned. And not a few mainline Protestant churches endorse the same issues the Democrat Party does.