Denver, Colo., Aug 26, 2018 / 04:01 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- When seminaries aim to form Catholic men to live a chaste, celibate life, it’s a matter of both the right habits and the right perspective: choosing celibacy as a way to show God’s love.
“Celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of God is a gift and as Scripture says, not all can accept this teaching, just as not all are called to live it out,” Dr. Christina Lynch, director of psychological services at the Archdiocese of Denver’s St. John Vianney Seminary, told CNA. “Seminary formation is a place of discerning this call and capacity to live it out. The man must discern with his spiritual director if he is called and the Church must also discern if she is calling this man to live this life.”
Father James Mason, President-Rector of the Archdiocese of St. Louis’ Kenrick-Glennon Seminary, reflected on celibacy from the perspective of a priest.
“When someone asks me about celibacy and the priesthood my first response is quite simple: Jesus. My desire to conform myself completely to Jesus and to give my life as he did as a sacrifice for his bride the Church,” he told CNA.
In the academic year 2017-2018, over 3,300 seminarians in the US were enrolled in post-baccalaureate studies, also known as the theologate, for both diocesan and religious orders. There were just under 1,300 college-level seminarians, and 350 enrolled in the three remaining high school seminary programs, according to figures from the Georgetown University-based Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate.
Father Paul Hoesing, who serves as Kenrick-Glennon Seminary’s dean of seminarians and human formation director, told CNA that celibacy is “choosing to be unmarried,” and there are good and bad reasons for making such a choice.
“Some may choose celibacy for the bad reason of disdaining or avoiding marriage,” he said. “The virtue of chastity does not necessarily accompany that choice.”
Citing Christ’s words, Hoesing said that celibacy is “for the sake of the kingdom.” It is a response to God’s sacrificial, enduring love.
“The chaste celibate says: ‘I want to give my life as a gift.’ Both the chaste celibate and the chaste couple can say ‘This is my body given for you’ with undivided and very joyful hearts,” Hoesing said.
“The chaste celibate declares that God’s love is as concrete and satisfying as living a faithful married life. Moreover, because the chaste celibate and the married couple are choosing their way of life as a personal response to God’s love, there is no competition. “
Both celibacy and marriage “make God’s love as evident and fruitful ‘on earth as it is in heaven’,” he said. “Whether married or single, chastity ensures that our sexuality is deeply experienced as a gift and way of communicating free, total and faithful love.”
Lynch said that all people are called to live chastely.
“Living a chaste life enables the person to right order their sexual desires and more fully receive and give the gift of love,” she said. “God created man and woman to live chastely which means to be a self-gift to each other and not use each other for gratification.”
Lynch said Denver’s St. John Vianney Seminary has a “very integrated approach in forming men.”
“We have a program called ‘Formation in Priestly Identity’ that not only addresses living a chaste celibate life but helps form men to be healthy persons who will flourish in life no matter their calling, whether marriage or priesthood,” she said. “The program intentionally addresses many tough issues, and approaches each topic as a team approach incorporating each area of formation: human, spiritual, intellectual and pastoral.”
“We begin by understanding what authentic manhood looks like and how one can grow into an authentic man given the distractions in today’s culture,” she said, adding, “chastity and celibacy are counter-cultural.”
The dangers of seminary life include thinking that men can “try to live as sexual beings,” rather than integrating their sexuality into their whole person, Lynch said. This comes amid other trends including excessive use of social media, lack of “real human contact” in face-to-face relationships, and “lack of involvement in communal settings.”
There are also some positive trends.
“Sexual psychology is becoming more aware of the addictive quality of certain sexual behaviors such as pornography, masturbation, and other online relationships,” said Lynch. “There is more of a trend to work on saving marriages rather than divorce.”
Hoesing said lay Christians can provide a model for seminarian formation.
“The healthy, holy, joy-filled married man provides a standard,” he said, resulting in questions like “Could I see this seminarian in a vibrant, life-giving marriage? Does the seminarian enjoy healthy friendships with married men? Does he have real friendships of any depth or maturity at all?”
He saw some danger in a seminary formation that creates a “bubble” between seminarians and families and couples who are developing their vocation. A seminary formation that is too “long and protective” might enable an unrealistic approach to parish life, making some seminarians, priests, and bishops seem removed from “real accountability and responsibility.”
Hoesing warned against an erroneous view of celibacy which sees it as simply a “bachelorhood” in which “marriage was never really considered or an option through circumstances or choice.”
In this case “celibacy is passively endured or drifted into, because marriage may be asking too much of the man’s personality or generosity,” he summarized. In other ways, celibacy is wrongly seen as “simply a discipline” that some rationalize by saying, “The Church requires it, so I imagine God can make it possible.”
Stresses on the “useful” or “practical” effects of celibacy can be “rationalizations for the painful absence of married life.” In Hoesing’s view, these include arguments that celibacy makes one better available to serve God’s people, that celibacy protects potential spouses and children from the difficulties of parish leadership, and that celibacy provides economic efficiencies and avoids practical difficulties for the Church.
“Availability, mobility, and efficiency do not mean intimacy,” he said. “Such negative justifications terminate in a kind of deadly disdain or ignorance for how to receive intimacy from God and others in chaste friendship.”
These errors, whether self-referential or pragmatic, have consequences, said Hoesing, who declared, “chastity is the first victim in the false views of celibacy.” These rationalizations will not promote “the integration of a man’s sexuality.”
Taking a too-practical approach to celibacy sees sexuality as something to be managed, which in turn fosters a false sense of self-reliance. Viewing sexuality as problematic risks playing into self-pity, while viewing it as “simply dangerous” traps a man into self-protection.
Church movements geared towards “intentional community living” or regular faith sharing are an aid to human formation, according to Hoesing.
“When young people learn how to share their faith in a small group or community, they can learn the art of living chastity,” he said. “The virtues, especially the chastity which governs our relational gifts, are best learned with others in a community.”
“Friendship is the school of virtue and chastity in particular,” he said. “While I may have a private life with rich friendships, I cannot have a secret life and real friendships. I will not have shared my heart. Too many unchaste people live in the misery of a self-made aloneness.”
The revival of sex abuse scandals has renewed concerns about seminary life. A Pennsylvania grand jury report, citing records from six diocese, said there were credible accusations against 300 priests for the sexual molestation, groping or rape of 1,000 minors in cases going back seven decades.
In June a New York archdiocesan board ruled credible a claim that Archbishop emeritus Theodore McCarrick of Washington had sexually abused a minor as a priest in the archdiocese. That report led to other accusations of sexual misconduct, including abuse of seminarians and young priests. Two New Jersey dioceses McCarrick had led agreed to make legal settlements in 2005 and 2007 with two men who said they had been sexually assaulted by McCarrick.
McCarrick resigned from the College of Cardinals in late July, the first American cardinal to do so.
Lynch said a failure of chastity is one reason for the sex abuse crisis, but not the sole reason.
“Abusing another person is the result of being an underdeveloped personality, a disordered personality, it is the lack of development in emotional maturity, stunted in nature,” she said.
For Hoesing, the sex abuse crisis is “a terrific failure of faith.” He suggested the crisis in the Church resulted from “a perfect storm of factors,” including the sexual revolution, systemic fearfulness, and low accountability.
Churches tended to engage in worldly self-protection, seeking to avoid scandal, and ended up brushing off the victims, rather than taking a gospel approach. Legal advice at the time included a non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement, which was intended to protect victims but ended up protecting abusers, he said. Abusers were sent to psychological facilities and repeatedly “treated and released.”
There is also the problem of dissenting theologians who, while rejecting abuse, “still blindly excuse or remain complicit in relativistic immorality,” Hoesing charged.
“Bad theology results in bad pastoral practices, and these can become a playground for perpetrating greater deviance,” he said.
[…]
An issue not addressed by the survey is contraception. Perhaps because they know the result already anyway. The vast majority of US Catholics do not disapprove of contraception. The Bishops typically sidestep this issue as they know how most people feel.
If 60% of Catholics view the horror of abortion favorably, I would put their favorability to contraception north of 90%.
Hard to grasp that Asians now outnumber by twice the black population. Although there continues to appear a quickly increasing presence of Asians in the media, in government. Hispanics remain the largest second to Whiteys. With the purposeful influx of migrating Hispanics including recent waves of Chinese, the Administration’s plan to overwhelm the electorate to Blue is going well. Also what needs to be accounted for is the ratio of births considered Catholics and the vast number continuing to decline practice that gives the overall figure for Catholics a starkly different value.
All is well on the Eastern Front in Rome the Pontiff’s laissez faire doctrine of amiable non demanding Catholicism washes away any thought of guilt among the apostate nominals. His Holiness can’t be faulted for a process that long preceded his pontificate, rather he deserves acclaim from Leftists and liberal Catholics for giving the movement his blessing.
It would be remiss if His Holiness is not recognized for contributing two crackerjack ideas to smooth the process, FS and the blessing of those in disordered relationships, plus DI and the eternal holiness of everyone.
Whiteys? Really?!
Thank you. I thought I was the only one…
Oh, here is a third…
Add me to the list. “Whiteys” is not acceptable.
Mrs Whitlock, although I’ve been called worse, I’m proud of being a Whitey. Guess my attempt at nuanced humor didn’t work.
The Pew research shows that there truly is no ‘Catholic’ church in the USA except for a small remnant who faithfully attend Mass and despise the murder of Holy Innocents in the womb. Much of this may be laid at the feet of our feeble ecclesiastical who only give mild lip service to this execrable Holocaust.
Second to Whiteys?You don’t sound like a real priest to me.
“Pew says, is that Catholics’ opinions about abortion tend to align more with their political leanings than with the teachings of their Church.” That statement is most concerning. I don’t understand how an individual would believe in a political party more strongly than they do their own church, as in The Church. This is a personal failure on so many levels.
Another way to look at it is that people who embrace Church teaching on her “not negotiable” doctrines have a home in only one major party, i.e., that’s why they are there and not the other way around.
Absolutely, Mr. Leonardi. I personally wish there was an alternate political party we could support. I’ve never really felt at home in the GOP, but it is what it is.
There is a party….it is called the American solidarity party….it’s platform id’s based on catholic social life especially pro life and pro family…..look it up
Thank you Ronald. Perhaps one day we’ll have a better choice of political party to affiliate with but I think it’s going to take some time to get momentum.
Whatever hope for reversing what is undeniable Catholic nihilism among willfully dumb Catholics from having been led by two intelligent popes for 35 years, has been obliterated by a Pope who says such childishly stupid things regarding Catholic morality like “The Church must no longer be a Church of No.”
“…. Catholics (28%) say they attend Mass weekly or more often … Protestants say they attend weekly service 40%.” I will argue that both Catholics and Protestant numbers are overwhelmingly too high. When it comes to self-reporting, we delude ourselves with how much TV we watch, how much we give to charity, how many calories we consume, and how often we attend church. I don’t recall the exact numbers, but there was a study done in a smallish NE Ohio town. They interviewed people on how often they attended religious services but then they counted cars in church parking lots on Sunday. Not even close. If you need to go somewhere and want to avoid traffic, go on Sunday morning.
I don’t like abortion, but I don’t make it a single issue when I vote. I do vote 100% Democrat. MAGA Protestants hate the Catholic Church and would like to ban us from the US if they could. There’s just too much of a divide between us for me to dance with the protestants. I’m also a pro-labor union Catholic and was a leader in my Federal employee union. I won’t vote for a fascist totalitarian just because that person opposes abortion. I prefer to live in freedom and to not impose my religious beliefs on anyone else.
“MAGA Protestants hate the Catholic Church and would like to ban us from the US if they could.”
I know quite a few such “MAGA Protestants,” and none of them hold a view remotely like this.
However, it’s quite clear that those who worship at the Altar of Abortion, Contraception, Homosexuality, and Transgenderism do indeed hate the Catholic Church and would happily destroy her if they could.
So, just saying…
Carl, do you forget that God gave people free will (re: abortion, contraception, homosexuality, transgender, etc. etc. etc.)? Why are you trying to take away people’s God-given right of free will?
You don’t have to agree with them, but it is not your God-given right to control other people or take away their own God-given rights.
I don’t understand why “live and let live” is the most difficult concept for Catholics to grasp. Just because you see something or someone is doing something you personally don’t like, that does not mean you get to boss them around or control their choices. You would not like it if anyone did that to you. Why do you think it is your place to do it to others?
Please explain to me why you think it is your place to control people. I want to understand.
Micha, don’t you think taking away an innocent life is about control?
True God gave each the gift of free will to chose between good and evil, the good to follow Him in obedience to His Way, His Life and His Truth or the evi, to sin, to go their own way from God. Yes, you are totally free to chose but remember choices have consequences intended and unintended in the here and now as well as the then and forever. The best we can hope and prat for you is to chose wisely every so wisely. Your soul is a terrible thing to lose. It is not the Catholics who shall judge you in the end but God. The best that the Catholic community can do is rebuke your sinful choices in the here and now with sufficient time for you and other to return to God. Good luck with your choices.
This is not worth replying to, but…. The absence of any standards or morality in a society , which is the basis of civilization, results in chaos. It can be argued the world was a happier safer place a few generations ago, when most people went to church and lived their lives according to moral principles. The spread of the early Catholic church was in large part responsible for a civilizing effect on the Roman empire, especially in terms of personal behaviors and what was acceptable ( a hard no on adultery, infanticide, wife beating, etc). Secularists like yourself would love to eradicate religion. How well has that worked out in places like China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea,and much of the Middle East?? Why, it would appear that their people have no rights at all, and their leaders not only tell them what to do, but have he power of life and death over them. Women in the Middle East are especially disposable. But we are starting to see here the result of less religion: the rapid increase of violent crimes, random physical attacks on mostly women by strangers, antisemitism, flash mob thefts,transgender surgeries on children,a rise in drug related deaths,serial casual sexual partners and broken families, abortions through the 9th month, and on and on. How are these good things again? People are making their choices, right?? So that should be great. These are all things opposed by the church for good reason. Many of these behaviors (adultery lets say), impact others such as the adulterer’s spouse and children. “Live and let live” or as some of us will say “anything goes”, has a major impact on society all around us. What we do in almost any action DOES affect others, for good or ill. For us to choose Good, as God would have us, we need a framework of knowledge and rules to help us understand how to behave. Which is why the juvenile perspective of “why cant I just do what I want?” does not work. It is the death of civilization, and the epitome of selfishness.Further, a quick reading of the Bible indicates that in addition to free will, God does favor some rules. Ten Commandments and all of that.
Its not about control of another person graced by God with free will. It about admonishing another who is placing their soul in jeopardy of damnation. It is what is termed a spiritual work of mercy. If the admonishing “pinches” perhaps it should be taken ever more seriously.
“It about admonishing another who is placing their soul in jeopardy of damnation.” Why do you believe it is your place to admonish anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe? They are exercising their God-given right to free will and you are 100% encroaching upon that.
Usn’t it up to God to do the “pinching” and for YOU to mind your own business?
Some people don’t want to be converted. Some people don’t want to share in or practice your religion. Some people have their own set of beliefs.
So why do you feel like it is your place to force your beliefs on others? That is you attempting to control others and denying their right to free will.
Hypocrisy is not and will never be ok.
Your whole question seems to center on the topic of sexuality. That smacks of wanting to justify doing any sexual activity you wish. Is adultery OK? Is Pedophilia? What about incest? What about bestiality? And if you think bestiality DOESN’T ever happen I will suggest you see some of the horrifying literature sent to me by animal rights groups. To address other topics, is stealing ok? Is murder? Are lines only drawn where they are convenient for YOU?? What about the ways your behavior impacts others? And what we do ALWAYS impacts others, even if unintended. Again, a society as a whole needs established rules and limitations and for much of civilization that has been derived from religious belief. These rules echo back to rules which GOD has handed us for a reason, to prevent injury to ourselves and others.Believers accept the idea that God created us, supports our every breath,and loves us, and thus we owe him worship, love and obedience in return.This is really not that hard to figure out.There are of course people who think this path is not for them.As you suggest, free will allows them to reject God and God’s laws, as they wish. Such folk usually do not believe in heaven or hell or an after-life. The real issue is, what if they are wrong?? An eternity separated from the God of all goodness seems like a really bad choice.
“Live and let live…”
Tell that to the pro-abortionists. They don’t want to let unborn babies live.
Even a ten-year-old can grasp that concept.
Did you learn you sense of moral logic from Charles Manson?
Those who practice contraception hate the Church? Nonsense.
I never met a contraceptivite with sufficient honorability to learn a thing about Catholic moral theology while not ridiculing it.
If you chose to abstain from contraception, fine and dandy. Just do not try to prevent others from employing contraception. It might be wise to stay out of married couples bedrooms.
Sometimes Mr. Baker those folks are not informed. Even just from a health & environment angle, many people have come to realize the risks of hormonal contraceptives.
One of my children taught NFP & consulted healthcare professionals. Some of the women who came to learn about NFP were not Catholic nor even people who believed in God. But learning about how miraculously we are made by our Creator can lead some people to Faith.
Women have turned their gift of natural fertility over to pharmaceutical companies to control & regulate.
I believe this as well. Good to see someone point it out.
John Paul II said a society that does not protect its most vulnerable cannot survive.
As an Evangelical Protestant for 47 years until I converted to Catholicism (and I attended Evangelical Protestant in which some of the best writers and pastors in the U.S. grew up; e.g., John Ortberg), I disagree with you that MAGA Protestants hate Catholics. First, I think the numbers of “MAGA” anything are greatly exaggerated. Also, I see nothing wrong with think and praying, “Make America Great Again.” But my main reason for disagreeing with your comment is that in the 47 years that I was a Protestant, I saw so much support and love for Catholics. Many of the missionaries I knew (and still know) work alongside of Catholics, especially in medical settings, in their country of ministry. Many Protestants first became aware of the evils of abortion when they worked and attended protest rallies and prayer meetings alongside of Catholics–and they also learned to respect, love, and even admire the Catholic dedication to ending abortion! Finally, great authors like Chuck Colson (R.I.P.), along with Father Richard Neuhaus (R.I.P.) started Evangelicals and Catholics Together, and there are other Protestants who have become involved with Catholics in various groups. Go talk to Protestants, please.
As a Catholic,I have traveled in largely Protestant circles in some personal and family affairs. I have never encountered an anti-Catholic person face to face. Maybe because in much of the country Catholics are so numerous. However in reading things online which allow public comment, I have run across more than a few comments by Protestants who must be on the fringe and say things like Catholics are not really Christians, or they say false things about Mary. I would NOT say these people are the majority of Protestants at all.
Nor have I EVER heard Protestant MAGA supporters attack Catholics. For that matter, they want to live and let live and I dont hear them attacking anyone, regardless of religion. I have voted Trump twice and will do so again, even if I have to write him in on the ballot.
I hope our Jewish brethren, who largely vote democrat, have had their eyes opened by the Biden administration’s attempts to undermine the Israeli war effort of late. Its time for them to support the Republicans.
Well I was raised Catholic and I’ve come to learn the teaching is All wrong! You are supposed to confess to God,not man! Jesus is the One and Only mediator not Mary! And it doesn’t matter if you go to church because our bodies are the church! Our mouths are supposed to shout how great Our God is and Our hearts are to be like Jesus and be kind to Each and every soul! Not judging and dividing because of race, religion or a political preference! But Catholics know this right? 🤔
Here is a little Bible 101: John 20:23 “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” And for extra credit read James 5:16 Gabriel, in all seriousness and love, I pray you sit in on a good RCIA program and reconsider The Church.
Gabriel, if you were to pray for me you would be a mediator yourself.
🙂
If Jesus is the one and only mediator, why didn’t he simply come to earth without Mary??
Our bodies are the church ONLy because the Church has the Body of Christ with which she may transform us INTO Christ’s body THROUGH Christ’s body which was made IN the power of the Holy Spirit, WITH MARY’s agreeing to be God’s intermediary and partner and helpmate in His Incarnation.
You would be better be served if you could serve God with your mouth closed until He helps you open it again in the Reconciliation Room. After that at your next Mass you could open your mind and your mouth to beg of Him to mediate your membership into Christ’s body. Then you could be made intelligent, good and beautiful by and through and with Him made through Mary and the Holy Spirit. READ SCRIPTURE silently. There you’ll find your friend, your faith and your Catholic Church again.
Jesus performed his first public miracle at Cana at the request of His mother. And as he was suffering on the cross he took the time to put his mother in the care of John the Apostle with his dying breath. Its very sad that Protestants feel so threatened that they feel the need to disparage our Lord’s mother.
Thank you to Ron (above) for quoting John 20:23— Jesus speaking to the Apostles: ” Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you retain they are retained.” Well, you could not have sins either forgiven or retained unless you TOLD them to the Apostles, correct?? Funny how Protestants like to skip over passages which do not fit their narrative. You can and should ask God to forgive you for sins ( hence the Act of Contrition). But Jesus gave us a process He wished us to follow.For Catholics that is Confession.
“I don’t like abortion, but I don’t make it a single issue when I vote. I do vote 100% Democrat”.
So why are you voting for Democrats who 100% LIKE abortion, often up until the moment of birth?
I’m a pro-life MAGA Catholic (yes, we exist) and let me just say that Joe Biden using the Catholic Faith as cover for his stance on abortion is despicable.
Christ is Risen, everyone. ☦️
Pro-life Catholic Democrats need to realize that the single most important social justice issue today is opposition to abortion, and that is upheld currently by the Republican party. When a nation ends the killing of its unborn, other social issues will be easier to address because people will no longer be viewed as objects.
Females (not women only) ages 9 to 50+, are raped, have life threatening pregnancies, live in dire poverty, etc. aren’t their lives of any value? Life is not so clear and simple as anti abortionists view it. It’s complicated and compassion and understanding are vital components for understanding how this is a life and death issue for the females and medical personnel involved.
Rape victims represent an exceedingly tiny percentage of pregnancies. And a clear majority of Americans, even pro-lifers, are generally supportive of a woman having access to abortion in the event of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother, propaganda from the left notwithstanding. Even in RED states which are trying to tighten up availability of abortion, a woman would still have a few months to make a decision. Pregnancy is NOT a disease to be eradicated. It is a normal bodily function. Women who “can’t ” become pregnant for whatever reason should think a little harder before they jump into bed with someone. There are too many repeaters at abortion clinics, and too many who push into the second and third trimester to do it. What the left wants is the most extreme abortion availability in all states at all times. Some of us would advocate for the exercise of more responsibility.
So why are pro-aborts so completely devoid of compassion and understanding? Why are pro-aborts completely, without a single exception, unwilling to operate a crisis pregancy center that provides aid and support to women seeking to save their child in difficult circumtances such as those thousands operated by pro-lifers, people whom pro-aborts, operating from a lack of compassion and understanding, with adolescent insistence call “anti-abortion?”
Jean, yes any girl or woman past puberty can become a mother. That’s just the way our biology works.
We don’t punish children for the crimes of their fathers. Feticide is not a treatment for sexual assault and is just a secondary violation of the mother.
Life itself may be complicated but Catholic moral teaching about the innocent child in the womb is pretty clear. I’d really recommend learning more about that and why every life has value, no matter what the circumstances are behind our conception.
Nice propaganda piece. There is no such thing as being “anti abortion.” People who oppose the destruction of life because it’s inconvenient are pro life. There are no “life and death issues.” That’s just histrionic emotional reasoning.
It wouldn’t be a bad idea to conduct these surveys with distinctions between Catholics who are Catholic and Catholics who are anti-Catholic bigots.
Fact 10. Catholics in the US are not very good Catholics!
Some of the commentors to your articles refer to homosexual acts as homosexuality. That usage is confusing and misleading. Homosexuality is not sinful, it is a heavy cross, it is an unwilled condition. Homosexual acts are sinful, the condition of homosexuality is not.
This article leaves out the most important fact;
No one with an I.Q. over 100 would ever be catholic.
Mr. Harper sets out to prove he is both a troll and a simpleton. Mission accomplished.
At geni.com we find a broad list of famous historical geniuses and their estimated IQs. A quick scan for known Catholics among them gives this roll call:
At the “bottom” are Masaccio, Bernini, Thomas A. Kempis, Columbus and de Tocqueville all at 140. Meister Eckhart 145. Gutenberg 150. Titian, Savonarola, and John Kennedy 155. Tertullian and Bottichelli 160. Cardinal Richelieu, Boccaccio, Mendel, Chaucer, Marconi and Mazzini 165. Thomas Aquinas, Origen, Pierre Curie, William of Ockham, Spengler, Rochefoucauld, and Coulomb all 170. Pasteur, Paracelsus, Campanella and Thomas More 175. Alberti, Brunelleschi, Duhem, Nicholas de Cusa, Augustine, Marie Curie, Michelangelo, Wolsey, Napoleon, Roger Bacon, Lavoisier, Teilhard de Chardin, Alexander Pope, Montaigne, Bossuet, Hugo, Beethoven all 180. Erasmus and Pascal 185. John Neumann 190. Descartes and Galileo 195…and some guy named Leonardo de Vinci at 200.
I was in a hurry, but don’t recall seeing either David Harper or myself on the list.