Rome Newsroom, Jan 15, 2024 / 13:05 pm (CNA).
Pope Francis appeared on Italy’s most popular prime-time talk show on Sunday night where the pontiff shared how he hopes that hell is “empty.”
Three million people in Italy tuned in to watch the nearly hourlong television interview with Pope Francis on Jan. 14 in which the pope responded to resistance to the recent Vatican declaration on same-sex blessings, previewed prospective papal trips to Polynesia and Argentina, and spoke of his fear of nuclear armageddon.
The 87-year-old pope began his appearance on the television show “Che Tempo Che Fa” by joking that he is “still alive” and has no plans to resign.
“For as long as I feel I still have the capacity to serve, I will go on. When I can no longer do it, it will be time to think about it,” Francis said.
Hell as ‘empty’?
When asked by the interviewer, Fabio Fazio, how he “imagines hell,” Pope Francis gave a short response.
“What I am going to say is not a dogma of faith but my own personal view: I like to think of hell as empty; I hope it is,” Pope Francis said.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholic teaching “affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”
The catechism also says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved.’”
Theologians like Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book “Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?” have put forward the possibility that one could “hope” that hell might be empty because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, making the distinction between universal salvation as a hope and universal salvation as a doctrine, which he rejects.
American Catholic evangelist Ralph Martin wrote in his 2012 book “Will Many Be Saved? What Vatican II Actually Teaches and Its Implications for the New Evangelization” that “what motivated the Apostles and the whole history of Christian missions was knowing from divine revelation that the human race is lost, eternally lost, without Christ, and even though it is possible for people to be saved under certain stringent conditions without explicit faith and baptism, ‘very often,’ this is not actually the case.”
Pope Francis has previously spoken about the existence of hell in public speeches during the past 10 years of his pontificate. In March 2014 he said in an address that members of the Mafia should change their lives “while there is still time, so that you do not end up in hell. That is what awaits you if you continue on this path.”
A long-awaited trip to Argentina?
In the interview, Pope Francis also confirmed that he plans to travel to Polynesia in August and that a potential trip to his native Argentina could take place later in 2024.
The pope, who served as the archbishop of Buenos Aires for 15 years, has not returned to Argentina since he became pope in 2013.
The new president of Argentina, Javier Milei, sent Pope Francis a formal invitation to visit his homeland earlier this month.
Pope Francis said that he would like to go to Argentina “if it can be done” and also noted that it is “a difficult time for the country.”
“It worries me because people are suffering so much,” he said.
What is Pope Francis afraid of?
Pope Francis spoke extensively in the interview about his desire for peace in the wars in Ukraine and in the Holy Land, telling the TV host that he speaks every day to the Catholic parish in Gaza on the telephone.
When asked what scares him, Pope Francis replied that the “escalation of war scares me,” bringing up the specter of nuclear war.
He said that with the potential for nuclear weapons to “destroy everything,” one wonders “how we will end up, like Noah’s ark?”
“That scares me — the capacity for self-destruction that humanity has today,” Francis said.
This was the second time Pope Francis has appeared on “Che Tempo Che Fa,” which often airs live interviews with politicians, celebrities, artists, and athletes. Recent guests on the program include former U.S. President Barack Obama in 2021 and Lady Gaga.
Pope Francis spoke with the TV program, which is recorded in Milan, northern Italy, remotely from the Vatican.
Why Pope Francis constantly asks for prayers
In the interview, Pope Francis was also asked why he ends every speech and public audience asking for people to pray for him.
“Because I am a sinner and I need God’s help to remain faithful to the vocation he has given me,” the pope replied.
“As a bishop I have a very great responsibility to the Church. I recognize my weaknesses — that’s why I have to ask for prayers, for everyone to pray for me to remain faithful in the service of the Lord, that I do not end up in the attitude of a mediocre shepherd who does not take care of his flock,” he added.
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Does everyone understand that Hell is a concept given to us by Jesus, not the Old Testament. The reason we have so much apostasy in the world today, is because Satan is so good at convincing the world that Hell does not exist.
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Luke 16:19 The Rich Man and Lazarus
“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.'”
Revelation 2:22
“I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves.”
The First Secret of Fatima
The first part is the vision of hell.
Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.
We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly: You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
When the children askes Our Blessed Mother why do people go to hell. She answered most people go to hell because of the sins of the flesh.
That is not entirely correct. Our Lady revealed that to St. Jacinto at a different time, not during the July 13th apparition. She said Hell is where “poor sinners go”.
About the hope (not the certainty or doctrine) that hell holds out a vacancy sign, and that all might be saved, there is this from Scripture: “This is good and agreeable in the sight of God our Savior, who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim 2:3-4).
But, then there are those who testify about the mob of isolated anonymity suffering free-fall forever in a hell of their choosing, such as Blessed Catherine Emmerich, the children at Fatima, and St. Faustina Kowalski in her “Diary: Divine Mercy in My Soul”:
“Today I was led by an Angel to the chasms of hell […] the first torture that constitutes hell is the loss of God; the second is perpetual remorse of conscience; the tirhd is that one condition will never change; the fourth is the fire that penetrates the soul without destroying it […] the fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own; the sixth torture is the constant company of Satan; the seventh torture is horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies [….] There are other special tortures destined for particular souls [….]
“I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like [….]” (n. 741).
All of us might soberly consider the plight of those us in our last moment are hopefully given an illumination about ourselves and the final, free, and binary choice, still consent to the reflex that, “well, this looks like a pretty big leap into the Unknown, and I think I’ll just stick with what I know which is myself.”
Instead, the preparatory habit of the sacramental life, not excluding Penance, seems the better choice…regardless of who might publicly float and possibly enable a different “personal view”.
We don’t possess the infinite depth of goodness that is God, such that it is beyond our comprehension to envision the infinite polarity of sin in the rejection of our God. Only the gift of faith’s pierce into his intense brutal death on the cross gives us a sense of it.
Like Bishop Barron, von Balthasar, Pope Francis my sentiments are similar. The vision of no end, no exit, no hope are beyond my grasp, perhaps my unwillingness to do so except that faith in Christ’s words compel me to hold otherwise. And the reason why is addressed in Courtney Mares’ fine research citing Ralph Martin’s book that although “it is possible for people to be saved under certain stringent conditions without explicit faith and baptism, ‘very often,’ this is not actually the case”. Benedict XVI lamented the recent radical downturn of missionary activity, many believing that most will be saved. If there’s a cause célèbre for us it’s devotion to the salvation of our brother and sister.
As an opinion on war I agree with Francis I, except that destruction of ourselves won’t be by nuclear holocaust, rather by our sins especially abortions and the perversion of human sexuality, the horror of violating infants. That Christ’s avenging arm will rain down destruction. Tempus fugit said Virgil. Followed by Memento mori. What more noble, Christlike work than to give our moment of time to redirect eternity
Bishop Barron cites Pope Benedict on this subject. Most people think that there are only two choices – heaven or hell. But of course there is a third – purgatory. And Barron cites Pope Benedict’s Spe Salvi for the proposition that since those who go to purgatory will eventually end up in heaven – therefore a substantial number of people have a good chance at heaven:
“the Pope’s 2007 encyclical “Spe Salvi,” which can be summarized as follows: There are a relative handful of truly wicked people in whom the love of God and neighbor has been totally extinguished through sin, and there are a relative handful of people whose lives are utterly pure, completely given over to the demands of love. Those latter few will proceed, upon death, directly to heaven, and those former few will, upon death, enter the state that the Church calls Hell. But the Pope concludes that “the great majority of people” who, though sinners, still retain a fundamental ordering to God, can and will be brought to heaven after the necessary purification of Purgatory.
… Obviously, there is no easy answer to the question of who or how many will be saved, but one of the most theologically accomplished popes in history, writing at a very high level of authority, has declared that we oughtn’t to hold that Hell is densely populated.”
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/52382/how-many-are-saved
Comforting words by Benedict. The key is, “sinners, [who] still retain a fundamental ordering to God”. What degree of fundamental ordering? In parishes the distances from what may be considered ordering are great to diminutive. A sacramental life that produces charity “covers a multitude of sins”. I’m convinced that is what saves most, which is why the Church is so literally vital. We’ll only realize the merciful power of the sacraments when with the grace of God we’re in heaven.
Further comment is warranted on the dynamics of salvation. Aside from personal sentiment, it’s imperative for us to take the words of Christ seriously and definitively. He warns us in Matthew 7:13-14 that “The road to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it”. And in Luke 13:24 “For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Work hard to enter the narrow door to God’s Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail”.
Sobering to say the least. Which is why I fail entirely as a priest if I do not devote my life to the requirements for salvation, for clear and unambiguous personal teaching, teaching from the pulpit, and in the confessional. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. A life focused on charity.
Hell’s managers like us to think it’s empty also. Or at least sparsely populated.
We have had warnings- especially from the Blessed Virgin at Fatima that the children were shown a vision of Hell with Many Many souls falling into it – it so frightened them that it changed their lives – Pope Francis as is his way likes to sow confusion- and he hopes it’s empty, when every evidence tells us unfortunately that it’s prepared for the devil and his angels and those of us in humanity who wish to reject Jesus ! And these are numbered in their millions ! I ray for everyone especially for Pope Francis 🙏
Yeah, OK fine.
Nevertheless, the narrow gate leads to Heaven, not the other way around.
I guess Pope Francis can think what he wants on this.
Well, this explains a lot.
Maybe he wants the whole place for himself.
Oh, that is cold. So cold.
Really? that is low!
Mercy without justice would be bankrupt.
Atonement has to be fulfilled…the Gospel of Matthew confirms as much.
Apparently our Pope is a Protestant.
Most Protestants I know preach the reality of Hell.
I hear much more about hell from Protestants. At least the ones who have a biblical worldview.
The problem with Protestants’ view of hell is that it’s the sole destination for Catholics.
That’s the case for some Protestant’s it’s true, but not all think that way. Goodness knows some Catholics used to think in a similar fashion about Protestants’ salvation.
When I think of “empty places” these days, I typically think of the skulls of some of those with the queerest ideas known to man. And, here, I do not exclude certain hierarchs.
”For as long as I feel I still have the capacity to serve, I will go on. When I can no longer do it, it will be time to think about it,” Francis said.
Your job as pontiff is to protect the Deposit of Faith. You haven’t done that for eleven years.
“I like…” ?
There is the crux of the problem with this individual. Its always been about what he “likes.” Its never about what “I like.” Its about what is right. How old do you have to be to get that through your head?
The cat is out of the bag. He paints himself in the worst possible light. No one can any longer be criticized for for leveling the harshest critique of him and his administration. He is profoundly disturbed.
I like to think of Hell as God revealed it.
No need to worry about that deeply troubled conscience you are experiencing. Life is free Monopoly money and every mortal sinner receives a get out hell for free card. I think this papacy is incapable of making a finely reasoned argument. They don’t need to because they are so, so…..so…Pastoral!!
Infallibility does not prevent the Pope from promulgating pastoral heresies and holding all manner of heterodox ideas in his head.
We are being put to the test with this pontificate. Hell exists and any of us can go there. Repent and believe. Stay Catholic. Follow Jesus Christ. Obey His Commandments. Frequent the Sacraments. All shall be well. This too shall pass. God’s peace.
“Pastoral heresies.” Perfectly phrased! I’ll be using that.
If the Pope thinks that Hell is unoccupied, I wonder where he thinks the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. are?
About Hitler, Stalin, Mao et al, Pope Benedict pointed to a widespread deadening of conscience. Those of deadened downstream conscience are still responsible for their upstream deadening…
“(First) I have been absolutely certain that there is something wrong with the theory of the justifying force of the subjective conscience . . . Hitler may have had none (guilt feelings); nor may Himmler or Stalin. Mafia bosses may have none, but it is more likely that they have merely suppressed their awareness of the skeletons in their closets. And the aborted guilt feelings . . . Everyone needs guilt feelings (Pope Benedict XVI, “Values in a Time of Upheaval”, Crossroad, 2006, p. 81; citation in Benedict is from Albert Gorres).
“(And second) The loss of the ability to see one’s guilt, the falling silent of conscience in so many areas, is a more dangerous illness of the soul than guilt that is recognized as guilt (see Psalm 19:12). . . To identify conscience with a superficial state of conviction is to equate it with a certainty that merely seems rational, a certainty woven from self-righteousness, conformism, and intellectual laziness. Conscience is degraded to a mechanism that produces excuses for one’s conduct, although in reality conscience is meant to make the subject transparent to the divine, thereby revealing man’s authentic dignity and greatness” (ibid., pp. 82-83).
maybe they had repented on their death beds. We don’t know!
I guess it’s kind of like when I think of the Jesuitical order as being empty, and the Catholic Church being restored under Pope Sarah.
Brineyman,
It looks like Francis, you, and I all have the same habit of having an incredibly active fantasy life.
Thanks for the humor. 🙂
“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts …”
– “Dandy” Don Meredith – may he rest in peace
As in the Garden of Eden some people think they know better than God. We must keep in mind that the Almighty in His Perfection is perfectly Just. Unrepented sin? Did not the Beloved One ignore the bad thief who mocked Him? Did He not warn that everyone who says Lord, Lord will not enter Heaven? How many times will Bergy countermand the Beloved Son of God?
Our pontiff seems to delight in tickling the ears of the progressives, while trolling and ridiculing the more devout Christians. Every day seems to show that he is simply a man of Left who happens to be pope.
This pope could provide a number of more truthful or meaningful messages to the Catholic faithful than he has, imo. Making climate change the biggest concern of his pontificate just depresses me. Constant attacks or changes of Catholic practice on traditional Catholicism also makes no sense to me. Telling Catholics not to proselytize without being specific where or when, but keeping a general caution, I just do not get him. And so on. —– Fine, be hopeful all will be saved, no harm in that. But do not give wayward “Christians” or agnostics a false hope. They need to be instructed, admonished and given all of the teachings of the Church and the saints as well as your kindly pastoral “God loves you” message.
By itself – untenable as an apologetics. But it also throws contradictions at inspirations or into apostolates.
To borrow from Chesterton (or was it Frank Sheed?), you cannot go more than two pages in the Gospels without Jesus threatening someone with hell. Was Our Lord gaslighting us?
So what we have is a Pope who is afraid the world’s destruction, but not the soul’s.
A good journalist would have followed up with the question, “If you realized that Hell was actually crowded, would you run your pontificate differently?”
I just wish he would have the prudence to be quiet (e.i., shut up). Not every thought one has must be broadcast to the world. Without prudence one is a fool, which explains a lot about this pontificate.
O Lord, how long?
If the Pope is correct that people will be annihilated rather than sent to Hell, why does he think that demons were sent to hell rather than be annihilated? I strongly suspect that both condemned people and demons would receive the same fate.
This good to know. If Hell is empty, then no need of the Church or religion or even God. THIS will boost church attendance, collections and vocations for SURE…sheer genius.
This is an perfect example of media and journalists who manipulate what is said either intentionally or not doing their job by actually listening to the conversation! The intetviewer NEVER ASKED HOW HE IMAGINES HELL. Pope Francis had just been describing that he invisions God as the Father in the story of the prodigal son who goes home ready with his monolgue explaining why how bad he was and the Father, God, touching his shoulder so happy to have his son back, didn’t even want to hear it as he was so happy about his return. At this Fabio, the intetviewer says: “in that context its difficult to imagine a father in this sense that condemns into hell. It’s difficult to imagine” he says. Pope Francis then responds that it’s not the teaching of the Church and says this twice – I like to imagine a hell that is empty because it gives pleasure” . He never said no on is in hell! In actuality he even says in the interview that when one commits a crime the judgement is prison. Even God would want and empty hell. Imagine… what is wrong with imagining what God wanted from the beginning??
PEOPLE WAKE UP! DON’T JUST BELIEVE WHAT YOU’RE FED!
Don’t you think that it could instead have been a perfect teaching moment? We choose to separate ourselves from God. The prodigal son chose to return home but he made that decision. He could have followed a different path. Just as we can.
None of your clarifications have any bearing on any of the stories I’ve read about the incident. We are long past popesplaining. The “media and journalists” aren’t manipulating the Pope’s imprudent remarks.
We do, after all, need to give PF partial credit for his statement of referring to an empty hell, especially since he has appointed no small number of the devl’s more senior demons to the cardinalate.
That the pope asks for prayer often is a good sign. If he gets rid of his hardness of heart, allergy and antipathy to Traditional Latin Mass and cancels Traditionis Custodes and subsequent abrogations, half the prayers said for him would be answered favorably by Jesus. Primarily he is there as he is HIS VICAR, though he declines to acknowledge this title, but is what Jesus had intended. For he is called to confirm his brethren in the faith and offer the Sacrifice that Christ instituted with HIs BLood. But alas ! what was intended to keep united was distorted and nullified and abolished gradually and in place a banal on the spot production is permitted to continue. Which he has no right to do because Francis did not shed his blood but Christ dying on the cross did. Therefore by default, the prayers he frequently asks for may not be heard as he has even banned the TLM in the very heart of Catholic Tradition – the Basilica of St Peters in Rome which was built for the Glory of God but he ventured instead to place panchmama on the very altar of Sacrifice. That is idolatry against God. It is against the 1st Commandment of God – his Master.
“He who acknowledges me I will acknowledge him before my Father”, Jesus has assured. So, the the ball is still in his court for the prayers to be fruitful in his favor.
I like to think of the papal chair as empty – of Francis.
From Will all be saved?
By Avery Cardinal Dulles
Excerpt:
The search for numbers in the demography of hell is futile. God in His wisdom has seen fit not to disclose any statistics. Several sayings of Jesus in the Gospels give the impression that the majority are lost. Paul, without denying the likelihood that some sinners will die without sufficient repentance, teaches that the grace of Christ is more powerful than sin: “Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Romans 5:20). Passages such as these permit us to hope that very many, if not all, will be saved.
All told, it is good that God has left us without exact information. If we knew that virtually everybody would be damned, we would be tempted to despair. If we knew that all, or nearly all, are saved, we might become presumptuous. If we knew that some fixed percent, say fifty, would be saved, we would be caught in an unholy rivalry. We would rejoice in every sign that others were among the lost, since our own chances of election would thereby be increased. Such a competitive spirit would hardly be compatible with the gospel.
Jesus never mentioned the word “hell” because he didn’t speak English. Translators have mistakenly translated the word “Gehenna” as “hell.” Gehenna was Jerusalem’s city dump. Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans due to the sins of the people. God would give the Roman general Titus permission to throw the bodies of the dead Jews into the city dump. Not being properly buried or entombed was something the Jewish people dreaded. the Bible does not discuss any punishment in the afterlife. Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 tells of the rewards for obedience and the punishments for disobeying the Mosaic Law. They are all about this earthly life. The punishment for adultery, for example, is to be stoned to death. Neither Jesus nor her accusers said anything about the woman caught in adultery being sent to hell or any punishment for her in the afterlife. the Bible speaks mainly about EXPERIENCING salvation in this life. Salvation is about being saved from slavery to sin in this earthly life, Peter talked about people being saved from this crooked generation (Acts 2:40), meaning being saved from doing wicked things such as fornication, theft, murder etc. Jesus spoke of the punishment of dying a violent death in this earthly life: Luke 13:1-5. When people die as infants they go to heaven even though they never believed in Jesus. They are saved in the afterlife. All people need to be born again of the Spirit to be saved even those who are aborted. See Psalm 58:3. The multitude that cannot be numbered in the Apoc. or Rev. 7:9-17 are all those who die in an unsaved condition including the aborted and those who die as infants. They are saved in the hereafter. “The Lamb WILL BE their shepherd. He was not their shepherd during their earthly lives. “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22), Also see Romans 5:18. Salvation is a creation work of God and not a legal work in which He saves us from being punished for our sins in the afterlife: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, HE IS A NEW CREATION. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come” (2 Cor. 5:17). We need to be saved from what we ARE and not so much from what we have done. By receiving Jesus in our hearts we become like him. Those who die unsaved will drink of the springs of living water per Apoc. 7:17b.
I like to think of hell as populated by the people who want to be there. That is, as creatures free to make certain choices they have elected values, actions, attitudes, and ultimately a life (during their mortal span on earth) that will lead them in the afterlife to exactly what they, with a considerable degree of consciousness and intentionality, have all along wanted.
In an episode of ‘The Twilight Zone” I saw recently, a gentleman dies and is greeted by a gracious host in the afterlife who provides him with fine foods, women, and pleasurable activities of various kinds. But there is a problem with the so-called high life he has been granted. It is not ultimately fulfilling. Au contraire in fact. He becomes bored and frustrated with it in the extreme. Then his host breaks the news to him: all along the gentleman had thought he was in heaven. In fact, he was in the other place. But he had gotten exactly what he wanted. It was what he had pursued all along. None so blind as those who will not see. Until they do.
If the premise, the belief, is that Jesus’ death being infinite reparation, redeemed all sin of humanity for all time, and thereby reconciled all humanity to God forever, since God being outside time all every sin committed is in the present …
then logically everyone goes to heaven.
So the Pope’s wish that hell is empty of humanity is confirmed.
Otherwise, if people are to be in hell, then the first premise has to be denied.
Human beings try to help one another to avoid the path to hell. Making all sorts of sacrifices, humankind has made up its mind to help the needy, the downtrodden, the exploited, and the marginalized to be dignified partners on the way to eternal bliss.
We need to be clear: hell is real, and millions will go there by their own free fault and choice (e.g. Matthew 8,12; & 13,41-42; Luke 13,28, Mark 9, 43-48, 1 John 5,16, Revelation 14,9-11). If Pope Francis doesn’t know that, he has a problem, and we have a problem in our pope’s personal beliefs. If Pope Francis wants to be optimistic about all those alive today going to heaven, so be it. Still, he should be clear about the reality of hell and millions ending up there.