In an interview with “60 Minutes” anchor Norah O’Donnell, Pope Francis discusses a wide range of issues. / Credit: CBS News/Adam Verdugo
CNA Staff, May 20, 2024 / 13:26 pm (CNA).
In his first in-depth interview with a U.S. broadcast network, Pope Francis addressed a wide range of topics, including the war in Ukraine, antisemitism, and U.S. immigration policy.
A portion of the full interview, which will air Monday evening on CBS, aired Sunday evening on the network’s flagship magazine program, “60 Minutes.” In the segment, the pope answered questions from “CBS Evening News” anchor Norah O’Donnell through a Spanish translator.
On the threat of famine in Gaza ahead of World Children’s Day:
“[The threat is] not just in Gaza. Think of Ukraine. Many kids from Ukraine come here. You know something? That those children don’t know how to smile? I’ll say something to them [mimics smile]… They have forgotten how to smile. And that is very painful.”
On wars in Ukraine and elsewhere:
“Please, warring countries, all of them, stop. Stop the war. Seek to negotiate. Strive for peace. A negotiated peace is always better than an endless war.”
On growing antisemitism in the U.S. amid the Israel-Hamas war:
“All ideology is bad. And antisemitism is an ideology, and it is bad. Any ‘anti’ is always bad. You can criticize one government or the other, the government of Israel, the Palestinian government. You can criticize all you want, but not ‘anti’ a people. Neither anti-Palestinian nor antisemitic. No. … I pray a lot for peace. And also suggest, ‘Please, stop. Negotiate.’”
On immigration:
“Migration is something that makes a country grow. [To O’Donnell:] They say that you Irish migrated and brought the whiskey, and that the Italians migrated and brought the mafia… [laugh] It’s a joke. Don’t take it badly. But, migrants sometimes suffer a lot. They suffer a lot.”
On Texas state effort to revoke registration of migrant-serving Annunciation House in El Paso, Texas:
“That is madness. Sheer madness. To close the border and leave them there, that is madness. The migrant has to be received. Then you see how you are going to deal with him. Maybe you have to send him back, I don’t know, but each case ought to be considered humanely.”
On the “globalization of indifference”:
“Do you want me to state it plainly? People wash their hands! There are so many Pontius Pilates on the loose out there… who see what is happening, the wars, the injustice, the crimes… ‘That’s OK, that’s OK’ and wash their hands. It’s indifference. That is what happens when the heart hardens… and becomes indifferent. Please, we have to get our hearts to feel again. We cannot remain indifferent in the face of such dramas of humanity. The globalization of indifference is a very ugly disease. Very ugly.”
On sexual abuse cases in the Church:
“[The Church] must continue working. Unfortunately, the tragedy of the abuses is enormous. And against this, an upright conscience and not only to not permit it but to put in place the conditions so that it does not happen. … It cannot be tolerated. When there is a case of a consecrated man or woman who abuses, the full force of the law falls upon them. In this there has been a great deal of progress.”
On the Vatican’s controversial Fiducia Supplicans document allowing for limited pastoral blessings of same-sex couples:
“What I allowed was not to bless the union. That cannot be done because that is not a sacrament. I cannot. The Lord made it that way. But to bless each person, yes. The blessing is for everyone. For everyone. To bless a homosexual-type union, however, goes against the law; the natural law, the law of the Church. But to bless each person, why not? The blessing is for all. Some people were scandalized by this. But why? For everyone! Everyone!”
When asked about criticisms from “conservative” bishops in the United States:
“You use the adjective ‘conservatives.’ That is to say, a conservative is one who sticks to something and does not want to see anything else. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to take into account situations from the past, but another is to be closed inside a dogmatic box.”
On gestational surrogacy, which is forbidden by the Catholic Church:
“In regard to surrogate motherhood, in the strictest technical sense of the term, no, it cannot happen. Sometimes surrogacy has become a business, and that is very bad. It is very bad. … The other hope is adoption. I would say that in each case the situation should be clearly considered, considered medically and then morally. I believe in these cases there is a general rule, but you have to go into each case in particular to assess the situation, as long as the moral principle is not skirted.”
On giving hope to others as the pope:
“You have to be open to everything. The Church is like that: Everyone, everyone, everyone. ‘That so-and-so is a sinner…?’ Me too, I am a sinner. Everyone! The Gospel is for everyone. If the Church places a customs officer at the door, that is no longer the church of Christ. Everyone.”
When asked what gives him hope:
“Everything. You see tragedies, but you also see so many beautiful things. You see heroic mothers, heroic men, men who have hopes and dreams, women who look to the future. That gives me a lot of hope. People want to live. People forge ahead. And people are fundamentally good. We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart is good.”
[…]
We read: “…but the proposal [Mass with the pope] was nixed by the Vatican after considering the impact that President Biden receiving Holy Communion from the Pope would have on the discussions the USCCB is planning to have during their meeting starting Wednesday, June 16.”
Are we to understand from the presumptive CNA (?) that, except for the untimely optics, Pope Francis actually would have distributed the Eucharist to Biden? Really? Or, instead, maybe the decision was for the pope to NOT be seen withholding the Eucharist? I’d rather think that even the Vatican might have learned something from the photo-op, with the pope, given to LGBTQXYZ wonder-boy James Martin, S.J. (Sept. 30, 2019).
But, in all such cases, do we not long for the forthright model of Pope St. John Paul II? As when he visited Nicaragua in 1983 and openly scolded the kneeling priest, Ernesto Cardenal, on the Managua airport runway—for resisting his order to resign from the government: “Usted tiene que arreglar sus asuntos con la Iglesia” —”You must fix your affairs with the Church!”
Yes, not exactly the same situation now with Biden…Cardenal was a priest doubling as a government official, while Biden is a government official masquerading as a lay Catholic leader. But, still, of Eucharistic coherence—”You must fix your affairs with the Church!”
Of course, the who story was just a fabrication and so making such assumptions serves no purpose.
Your question – “Are we to understand from the presumptive CNA (?) that, except for the untimely optics, Pope Francis actually would have distributed the Eucharist to Biden?”
Your question sounds rhetorical to me, which is certainly justifiable, and this is kind of sad, but I see it like this – it’s a start. At the least the Pope realizes that this is a problem.
I’ll take this as a hopeful sign.
What a wonderful opportunity for our Pope and our President to have a one-on-one discussion on the status of the President’s soul! The Pope has a duty to help the President look at his soul and contemplate his destiny.
Yes, but honestly speaking, what is the statistical probability that that conversation will take place? Knowing Francis and Biden, I think zero is a good guess.
I hope the USCCB members will see this as the directive from Pope Francis to continue their discussion on Eucharistic coherence, which has been a settled matter for centuries. Both Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are clear on the subject that Catholics in mortal sin (promoting abortion, gender fluidity, same sex marriage, etc.) should not present themselves for Holy Communion. Young children are taught this in preparation for the Sacrament. It is really a fundamental teaching that needs no further clarification. The bishops need to reinforce Catholic teaching again, because that’s the job with which they’ve been entrusted. Be shepherds. The sheep need you to guide them in the right paths to the field of eternal life.
What discussion?? We’ve had dialogue about this whole abortion and Catholic politician thing since 1973! How much more is there to be said, oops excuse me, to be dialogued? Our bishops do not want to touch this issue. The USCCB is just preparing to kick(again) that can down the road, research it again, create committees, let’s not be hasty kind of thing as pro-abortion Catholic politicians continue time and again to rub more feces into the faces of the bishops. The only reason Pelosi, Biden et al continue to defy the Church is because they know they can and nothing will be done about it.
For one Beaulieu refers to mere optics related to the upcoming USCCB discussions. A desultory rationale. Another, the Vatican is doctrinally opposed. Then, another, would an affirmative be contrary to plan, that is if we, and there are others who perceive a conspiratorial strategy to change doctrine not abruptly rather painfully, inexorably slowly. If the reader is among the conspiratorialists [as the writer is after 8 years of observation] a Ja would for Vatican strategists be disastrous. Too soon evoking outcry, perhaps even waking up some clergy both low and high. So Nicht or Nix is certainly according to plan lulling the somnolent to continue their peaceful repose. What, seriously speaking, most certainly should have been announced from the Vatican was reaffirmation of Catholic doctrine, that such a blasphemous act, a Pope giving communion to such a zealous public advocate of abortion and sexual depravity contradicts Eucharistic Cohesion. As well as moral sanity.
The Vicar of Ambiguity went some of the distance but he could have locked up a witness for the truth in one act. He never fails to fall short — at best.
Obviously if the Pope gives communion to Biden, he will violate Canon 915. If he refuses, he will alienate the SJW Bishops like Cupich and Tobin. So to avoid scandal and negative ramifications, he took a third option.
Come on man, no Biden at UND commencement, no Biden receiving the Eucharist from the Pope, I take these as wins for the Catholic faithful. Thank you Lord.
A stroll down memory lane – Biden was at the UND commencement in 2016 when he was VP and he received some sort of high award from them and a few weeks later he officiated at a same-sex ‘marriage’ on his website.
I’m with gka above. “Hope springs eternal in the human breast”.
With a prescript rejoinder explaining this was an erroneous report shows how the EWTN-owned Catholic News Agency is purveyor of fake news. It quickly crafted this report even though its source was unreliable just because this pictured President Biden in a negative light. CWR should be cautious in getting reports from CNA. This lying violates the 8th commandment.