Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 04:29 pm (CNA).- In a June 21 conversation with journalists on the way back from a trip to Geneva, Pope Francis touched on an array of topics, including ecumenism, intercommunion, peace and just war, and refugees.
Please read below for CNA’s full transcript of the Pope’s inflight press conference:
Greg Burke:
Thank you, Your Holiness… we wait a second, here we go… perfect! Thank you in the meantime. To journey, to pray, to work together… we have walked, we have prayed also, at various times, and now we touch on work a little, even to eat after, so that it is seen that to journey together brings fruit.
Today the welcoming- we have seen, after many speeches that it is the mutual respect and it is something more, it is also friendship. However, there is still so much work to do and so many challenges and this interests us normally, the challenges… so, to you journalists… but, if you want to say something first [Holy Father]?
Pope Francis:
Thank you for your work, the day was a little heavy, at least for me… but I am content, I am content [ed. note: or ‘happy’] because the various things that we have done — that is, the prayers to begin, then the speech during lunch it was the most beautiful, then the academic meeting, and then the Mass, they are things that have made me happy… The tiring but beautiful things! Thank you so much! Now I am available to you.
Greg Burke:
Good. We begin with the Swiss. (Arnaud Bedat of L’Illustre magazine)
Bedat:
Holy Father, you have been in Geneva, but also in Switzerland. What are the images and what are the strong, important moments that had an impact on you during this day?
Pope Francis:
Repeat for me.
Bedat:
(repeated)
Pope Francis:
I believe that it is a common word: encounter. It was a day of varied encounters. The right word of the day is ‘encounter,’ and when a person encounters another and feels appreciation for the meeting, this always touches the heart, no? They were positive meetings, good even, beginning with the dialogue with the president at the beginning; it was not a speech of courtesy, as usual… [it was] a deep speech on the profound world debates and [spoken by him] with an intelligence… that I remain astonished, beginning from that.
Then the meetings that you all saw, and that which you did not see is the meeting at lunch, that was very profound [or deep] in the way it touched on many debates, mabe the debate we spent the most time on is “the youth.” Because even all of the churches are concerned, in the good sense, for the youth and the pre-synod that occurred in Rome from March 19 and then attracted enough attention, because there were youth of all [different] beliefs, even agnostics and of all the countries. Think, 315 youth there and 15,000 connected [ed note: via Facebook] that they entered and exited and this perhaps awakened a special interest.
But the word that came to me maybe the whole trip is that it was a voyage of ‘encounter.’ Maybe… I don’t know… an experience of encounter… no rudeness, nothing entirely formal. A human encounter. And this… between Protestants, Catholics and all [people] it says a lot, eh!
Greg Burke:
Thanks, Holiness. Now the German group. Roland Juchem of the German Catholic CIC Agency is here.
Roland Juchem:
Thanks, Holy Father. You speak often of concrete steps toward ecumenism. Today, for example, you again referred to that, saying “Let’s see what is possible to do concretely rather than getting discouraged for what isn’t.”
The German bishops recently have decided to take a step and so we ask ourselves why Archbishop Ladaria wrote a letter that seems like an “emergency brake.” After the meeting May 3, it was affirmed that the German bishops would have had to find a possibly unanimous solution. What will be the next steps? Will an intervention from the Vatican be necessary to clarify or will the German bishops have to find an agreement?
Pope Francis:
Well. This is not a novelty because in the Code of Canon Law, what the German bishops were talking about is foreseen: communion in special cases. And, they were looking at the problem of mixed marriages, no? If it is possible or it isn’t possible. And the Code says that the bishop of the particular Church – this word is important, “particular,” if it is of a diocese – must read that. It’s in his hands. This is in the Code. The German bishops, because they had seen that it wasn’t clear… also some priests did things who weren’t in agreement with the bishop, have wished to study this theme and have made this study that I don’t want to exaggerate, but it was a study of more than a year, and more… it’s more than a year… well done… and the study was restrictive.
What the bishops wanted is to say clearly what is in the Code. And, I read it and said: this is a restrictive document, no? It wasn’t open to everyone. It’s a well thought-out thing, with ecclesial spirit. And they wished to do it for the local Church, not the particular. The thing slid along up until there for the German [bishops’] conference. And there, there is a problem, because the Code does not foresee that. It foresees the bishop of the diocese, but not the conference, because a thing approved by an episcopal conference immediately becomes universal.
And this was the difficulty of the discussion: not so much the content, but this. And they sent the document. Then, there were two or three meetings of dialogue or of clarification and Archbishop Ladaria sent that letter, but with my permission. He didn’t do it alone! I told him: ‘Yes, it’s better to make a step ahead and say that the document isn’t yet mature and that the thing needed to be studied more.’ Then, there was another meeting and at the end they will study the thing.
I think that this will be an orientative document so that each of the diocesan bishops can manage what canon law already permits.
It wasn’t a brake … it is reading the thing so that it goes along the right path. When I made a visit to the Lutheran Church of Rome, a question of the kind was posed, and I replied according to the spirit of the Code of Canon Law. It is the spirit that they are seeking now. Maybe it wasn’t the right information in the right moment, a little bit of confusion, but this is the thing: the particular Church, the Code permits it, the local Church [episcopal conference] cannot because it would be universal.
(journalist inaudible)
But the conference can study and give orientative opinions to help the bishops to manage the particular cases. Thanks.
Greg Burke:
Now from the Spanish group there is Eva Fernandez of COPE agency and Spanish radio
Pope Francis:
They are good, these [journalists] of COPE
Eva Fernandez:
Thank you, Holy Father! We have seen that even the secretary general of the Ecumenical Council of Churches spoke of help to refugees. Just recently we have seen the incident of the Aquarius ship, also the separation of families in the United States. Do you think that some leaders instrumentalize/use the tragedy of refugees. Do they use them…?
Pope Francis:
I have spoken a lot on refugees, the criteria are those that I have said: to welcome, to accompany, to place, to integrate. This is the criteria for all refugees. Then I have said that every country should do this with the virtue of the rule of prudence, because a country should welcome as many refugees as it can and as many as it can integrate, educate, assimilate, give work to. This I would say is the straightforward/easy, serene plan for refugees. Here we are living [with] a wave of refugees that flee from wars and from hunger. The war and hunger of many countries in Africa, wars and persecution in the Middle East. Italy and Greece were very generous in welcoming [refugees], and for the Middle East, Turkey [was also], in respect to Syria, it has received many… Lebanon many… Lebanon has as many Syrians as Lebanese… and then Jordan… other countries, also Spain has received [them? some?].
There is a problem of trafficking migrants, and also there is the problem when in some cases they return, because they should return if this — I do not know/understand well the terms in agreement — if they are in the Libyan water, they should return… and there, I have seen the photographs of the detention centers controlled by the traffickers. Traffickers immediately separate the women from the men… women and babies go… God knows where! This is what the traffickers do! There is even a case that I know of where the traffickers were close to a ship that had accepted barges and… [they were saying] “give us the women and the babies and take the males.”
These traffickers and the detention centers of the traffickers eh, that have returned, they are terrible… terrible! In the detention camps of the Second World War they saw these things! And also the mutilizations in the torture of [forced?] labor and then they threw them to be in the comunes of the men. For this the leaders are concerned that they [the people] do not return and fall into the hands of these people [the traffickers]. It is a world-wide concern! I know that the leaders speak on this and they want to find an agreement, even to modify the Dublin agreement and all of this.
In Spain you have had the case of this ship that is docked in Valencia, but all of this is a mess… the problem of the wars is difficult to resolve. The problem of the persecution also of Christians in the Middle East, also in Nigeria… but the problem of hunger they can resolve, and many European leaders are thinking of an emergency plan to invest in these countries, to invest intelligently, to give work and education in these two things in the countries from which those people come… because — [I’ll say] one thing, not to offend, but it is the truth — in the collective subconscious, is a bad motto: Africa is exploited. And Africa is to be preyed on… this is in the subconscious… ‘eh, they are Africans.’ Always ‘land of slaves.’
And this should change with this plan of investment, and to increase education, because the African people have many cultural riches, many, and they have a great intelligence. The children are very intelligent and they, with a good education, can go beyond… this will be the road halfway to the goal, but in the moment leaders should make an agreement between themselves to go forward with these emergency fixes… this here in Europe! We go in America: in America there is a great migration problem.
(journalist inaudible)
In Latin America too there is an internal migration problem… in my homeland there is a migration problem from North to South and even these people leave the countryside because there is no work and the go to the big cities and where there are these megacities [or huge cities], the slums and all these things, but it is also an external migration to other countries that have work… and speaking concretely of the United States, I back that which the bishops of the country say. I side with them. Thank you.
Greg Burke:
Thanks, Holiness. Now is the English group: Deborah Castellano Lubov of the Zenit Agency.
Deborah Castellano Lubov (Zenit):
Thanks, Holiness! Holiness, in your address today to the ecumenical encounter you made reference to the enormous strength of the Gospel. We know some of the Churches, now the World Council of Churches, the so-called “pacifist Churches” who believe that a Christian cannot use violence. We remember that two years ago in the Vatican there was as conference organized. Do you think that it would be the case for the Catholic Church to unite to these so-called “Churches of peace” and set aside the doctrine of just war? Thanks.
Pope Francis:
A clarification, why do you say that there are “pacifist Churches?”
Deborah Castellano Lubov:
They are considered as pacifist because they have this way of reasoning that if a person (intuits) a violence, at that point they can no longer be considered Christians.
Pope Francis:
Thanks. I understand. Because you put your finger right in the wound, eh? I think that… today at lunch a pastor said that maybe the first human right is the right to hope and I liked that. And this has to do a bit with this and we spoke about the crisis of human rights today. I think that I have to begin from this to arrive to your question. The crisis of human rights is clearly seen. They speak a bit about human rights but so many groups or some countries take a distance, and “yes, human rights,” but there isn’t the strength, the enthusiasm, the conviction. I don’t say 70 years ago but 20 years ago. And this is grave because we have to see the causes, but what are the causes for which we have arrived to this that today human rights are relative. Also the right to peace is relative. It is a crisis of human rights. This I think that we must think it through to the end, or with certainty.
Then, Churches of peace. I think that all the Churches that have this spirit of peace must reunite and work together as we said in the speeches today, myself and the other people that spoke. And at lunch, unity for peace was spoken of. Peace is an exigency because there is risk of a war that we … some have said this: this third world war, if it is done, we know with which arms it will be done… but if there were a fourth, it would be done with sticks because humanity will be destroyed. The commitment for peace is serious, but when you think of the money that is spent on weapons… for this, the religions of peace… is the mandate of God. Peace, fraternity, human unity. All of the conflicts, don’t resolve them like Cain, resolve them with negotiations, with dialogue, with mediations… for example, we’re in a crisis of mediations. The mediation as a juridical figure (very rich) today is in pure crisis. Hope is in crisis, crisis of human rights, crisis of mediations, crisis of peace.
But then if you say that there are religions of peace, I ask myself, where are the religions of war? It’s tough to understand this. It’s tough. But, some groups, I would say in almost all of the small religious groups, I will say a bit simply fundamentalists, seek wars… Also we Catholics have some. They always seek destruction, no? And this is very important to have our eyes on it. I don’t know if I replied. Thanks.
They say that the population is asking for lunch, eh, dinner, that there is just enough time to arrive with a full stomach. It’s just to tell you… a word that I want to say clearly that today was an ecumenical day, really ecumenical! And at lunch we said a beautiful word, a beautiful thing, that I leave with you so that you think on it and reflect, you make a nice consideration of this. In the ecumenical movement we have to take from the dictionary a word: “proselytism.” Clear? You cannot have ecumenism with proselytism. You have to choose. Either you have an ecumenical spirit or you are a proselytizer.
Thanks! I would continue speaking because I like it… but now let’s make the Substitute [of the Secretariat of State] come because it is the last trip he’ll make with us, because now he’s going to change color, but not for embarrassment! We want to say goodbye to him. It’s a Sardinian cake to celebrate!
Cardinal-elect Angelo Becciu (Sardinian-born Substitute of the Holy See Secretariat of State):
Thanks! It is a double surprise of calling me and thanking me in front of you! And then there’s a Sardinian cake. Well, then, we’ll try it with pleasure! I truly thank the Holy Father for this occasion, but for everything, because he has allowed me this magnificent experience of traveling so much with him. At the beginning, he scared me saying, ‘No, I’ve made few trips.’ Do you remember? And then after one, he added another and then another and we said to ourselves, ‘good thing he said there would be few and they’ve been many.’ A magnificent experience of seeing the Holy Father spread the Word of God courageously. My service has been only this: to help him in this. Alright? Thanks to all of you and to those who have helped us! Thanks.
Pope Francis:
Buon appetito, have a good dinner and thanks so much! And pray for me, please. Thanks.
[…]
Peace is precious. Non-violence is a time tested value. Democracy is a continuous process. In a democracy, each one is invited to contribute to the peace process. Long live democracy.
I am glad that the US is not a democracy, but a republic, since all democracies end in tyranny. Donald Trump was elected on Nov. 3, but morning came and it was stolen with tens of thousands of illegal ballots. They told us beforehand what they were going to do and they did it. If Biden is installed on Jan. 20 we will then be a banana republic. And one other thing, most of the protesters were let in by the police and were antifa. President Trump’s voters are peaceful protesters unlike the demoncrats.
Yes, this must be condemned, this movement (Pope Francis). Francis correctly calls for healing the violence. Condemn the movement? The movement is at least 72 million Americans who voted for Trump, many who faithfully hold to Catholicism. Who are against abortion. Who risk defending the unborn. Who reject homosexuality and its threat to the traditional family. Who are willing to stand up for religious liberty. What keeps us together as a Nation is exactly this sense of revolutionary Liberty of the founders, a belief in God given freedom, the inherent rights to live without immoderate restriction, to believe in a saving God, corrupted by a Catholic Supreme Court justice Anthony Kennedy in his opinion defining liberty sans principals Planned Parenthood E PA v Casey. Likely the intellectual catalyst that divided more conservative Christians and Mid Westerners from urban hardened hostile Marxist socialists. Result of the election ignited the spark, the volatility of the speech, yes even Trump’s admittedly narcissistic but not wholly untrue speech, march, the attack on the Capital that is perceived as betraying that most valued premise of God given freedom. We’re in for a fight, or the cowardly decision to lay down and enjoy the remaining moments of just peace until that is wrenched away from us. Our challenge is in response to the question, where does justice lie? In keeping up political decorum? Certainly not in violence. Rather it’s in the determined quest for the true and the good. Our failure as a Nation with the election of a moral turncoat will end in the suffering, and hopefully to find in disaster the redemption of those of us who have failed themselves and country. And many of us God.
When the Pope speaks of condemning ¨this¨ movement, it is a stretch to interpret it as his condemning all who voted for Trump. He is referring to any movement that involves violence.
The Holy Father is quite likely not knowing the ground situation and is unaware of the nuances – the mainstream media tar everyone with the same brush and he probably naively believed that narrative.
It is obvious that those who entered the Capitol also included Antifa / paid actors. Plus some of the events were cleverly staged and raise a lot of questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0AM9xPFNFc
That said, re the ´many who faithfully hold to Catholicism´ bit – well the ´many´ bit is debatable. How many among that ´many´ adhere to the teaching of Humanae Vitae?
The tide will turn within a fortnight, and then of course, it remains to be seen what the ¨many…who reject homosexuality and its threat to the traditional family¨ are going to do when the ¨most pro-gay President¨ – https://twitter.com/LogCabinGOP/status/1296039209891819520 – continues his ´campaign to decriminalize homosexuality in 71 countries´ >> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7092519/Trump-Republican-president-promote-LGBT-Pride-Month.html
What will they do when Trump ´accommodates´ the demand from some ¨Republican conservatives¨ such as https://logcabin.org/adoption/ (or those among them who will move to any new party that may be formed) to continue to allow ¨LGBT couples¨ to adopt or foster children?
Do those ¨who faithfully hold to Catholicism¨ have the numbers as well as the political will, courage, stomach and determination to overturn the ¨anthropological regression¨ of ´…laws “assimilating” homosexual relationships to marriage´? – https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-calls-for-civil-union-law-for-same-sex-couples-in-shift-from-vatican-stance-12462
´…(The Pope) expressed concern that if same-sex couples “are given adoption rights, there could be affected children. Every person needs a male father and a female mother that can help them shape their identity.”…´
This non-Catholic expressed one aspect of the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWpvf-tZWIY
The system is broken. We are broken.
Kyrie eleison!
Yes, all isn’t black and white. We, nevertheless, mustn’t adopt your presumed omniscience and disparaging response. We hold fast to Christ and as priests we witness fearlessly to his truth. He will not abandon us as long as we hold firm. That’s what I convey to the faithful and to you.
Unsure what led to the ´omniscience´ label. [As an aside, I was reminded of ¨The aims of leftist labeling and censoring of conservatives as extremists¨ – https://www.debatez.com/forums/topic/the-aims-of-leftist-labeling-and-censoring-of-conservatives-as-extremists/ – so is this a case of the shoe being on the other foot?!] 🙂
In any case, if it is because of the confidence (based on multiple reports from various sources) that some things will happen in the coming days including the reversal of the tide, – that does not mean I know everything, nor do I claim to be ´omniscient´.
´disparaging response´?
Again, another (wrong) perception / interpretation.
I was simply pointing out the truth as borne witness through the content in the cited web pages – the intent being to point out stuff that needs to be highlighted for the benefit of those who may not quite be aware of those things. That is to say, it was merely to indicate areas where there are inconsistencies and work to do – which that non-Catholic woman has also rightly flagged in some respect.
If I intended to be disparaging, I would not have included myself in saying WE are broken.
I’m not convinced that Pope Francis has a clue what he’s talking about when he wades into U.S. politics.
“But we have to understand well that it does not repeat, learning from history.”
Shouldn’t we do the same for McCarrick? The report published by Vatican didn’t seem to impress most people I follow. I haven’t read it myself, but have been hearing it’s essentially just a report of blaming here and there, instead of admitting what’s going wrong in the Church / Vatican and how it could be solved. As a Catholic, I’m really sad I have to write something like this as a public comment, but I think we Catholics deserve to know what’s really going wrong so we can work together to prevent the same thing. Unfortunately, our dear pope seems to prefer silence when people tried to clarify controversial / ambiguous topics.
I’m astonished that he is astonished. Did he not say to “make a mess” and that “chaos is good” and he would be” seen as the Pope who divided the Church?” Does he not know what the earthly result of that is?
And silence about the violence against Christians in China? Selective astonishment.
Well, yes.
Good point. Truthfully ,I was pretty astonished at the mayhem in DC but compare the state of affairs here to what’s going on in communist China.
I think of everything going on in the world that’s disturbing and our betrayal of Christians in China has to be one of the worst offenses. Imagine what the early missionaries would think of us.
I am astonished that the Pope, to by my knowledge, has issued no statement in response to the legalization of abortion in his native land. I am astonished that such a man is the Vicar of Christ.
The Pope is astonished and condemns the violence?? Where was he when the BLM and antifa crowd set a church on fire across the street from the White House last summer and Donald Trump stepped out alone to present a picture of calm and authority? For which he was, as always , attacked by the Democrats,who complained the rioters were roughly treated, and who seemed to have no trouble letting the country burn all summer in Blue states. In fact the DEMs took the trouble to kneel in solidarity with the rioters!!! But now they are shocked!! Shocked they say, that a few protesters trashed Congressional offices. I do not support anyone rioting. But even less do I support smug self-serving politicians such as those on the left. Rules/Laws are supposed to apply to ALL or they should apply to NONE. For more than 2 centuries Americans have grown used to being the objects of hate. We do not care what non-Americans think of us.