Washington D.C., Aug 16, 2018 / 03:16 am (CNA).- Fr. Thomas Berg is a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, a former Legionary of Christ, and professor of moral theology, vice rector, and director of admissions at St. Joseph’s Seminary in Dunwoodie, NY. He is author of Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics. He spoke recently with CNA’s Courtney Grogan about the challenges Catholics face amid the Church’s sexual abuse and misconduct scandals. The interview is below, edited for clarity and length.
With everything that has been coming out in the news recently about sexual abuse in the Church, how do you think that your book, “Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics,” could be helpful?
In the wake of the McCarrick scandal and ongoing revelations of priest sexual abuse, a very common reaction is one of betrayal.
That’s what I have heard a lot of from persons who have reached out to me, especially persons who for years have collaborated with bishops, worked in chanceries, worked for bishops, collaborated in apostolates, have headed-up bishop’s capital campaigns, have been donors and so on. Part of the very common experience is this raw emotional wound of betrayal.
Much of my book speaks directly to that experience. That’s where I really hope that persons who are going through that betrayal, profound discouragement, disappointment, the bewilderment of the moral failures of bishops, who either failed to report what they should have reported or did not act on what was reported to them.
That is scandalous and that opens up a wound of betrayal really in the whole mystical body.
I very much believe that the book can, hopefully, point to where is the good news in this — Where is the hope in this? Where is Jesus in the midst of this crisis?
Where is Jesus in the midst of this crisis?
Jesus is the healer of wounds, and Jesus does not leave the members of his mystical body without healing when we seek it.
We are in the midst of a massive crisis, notwithstanding some resistance to that idea by some of our prelates.
And those wounds are opened up. This is where not only can Jesus bring healing, but he can also use that experience of woundedness, whether that is personally or institutionally or spiritually as the body of Christ. He uses those wounds to bring greater good, to bring grace and healing to His Church.
Part of what I do in the book is just to reflect, often with these individuals [victims of abuse] and sometimes in their own words, on this mystery that the Jesus who comes into this experience is Jesus who appeared with his glorious wounds. The wounds were still there. The wounds are mystically important and we can unite our wounds to Jesus and allow him to unite those in a mystical way, in a redemptive way to His redemptive work.
So, where is Jesus in all of this? Jesus is continuing in the midst of our brokenness, in the midst of the utter moral failures of our pastors, in the midst of our own sinfulness and brokenness. The risen Good Shepherd comes with his glorious wounds by which he intends to bring about healing in his Church and to bring about a much greater good and a much more glorious future precisely in and through the tragedies that we are experiencing.
We will also experience this in a much more glorious and beautiful day for the Church in the future, and certainly for the Church when all time has been consummated and we are all, by God’s grace, caught up in the glory of the heavenly kingdom.
You discuss in the book how uprooting a betrayal of trust can be and how we really need to be grounded in Christ’s love. What are some concrete ways that Catholics can really root themselves in Christ’s love and find that grounding in a time when they might feel destabilized in the Church?
First, very practical immediate answer: Eucharistic adoration. No doubt about it.
That was essentially my homily when we were talking two weeks ago about the McCarrick thing from the pulpit. It means, as always in crisis, we need to be earnestly and deeply seeking the Lord by frequenting Eucharistic adoration and intensifying one’s life of prayer.
In my own story, I had to go on retreat. I had to just go take some time to just be by myself to get that down to the solid foundation of what did I stand on. What was the foundation that everything that I believed stood on?
What one can come to in those experiences is that experience of Jesus — the experience that our risen and glorious Lord still stands present in the midst of our lives. He is there.
When we are hurting, we need to do whatever it takes: adoration, retreat, increased prayer, asceticism, solid spiritual reading, all of the things that we can avail ourselves of God’s grace to re-experience ourselves as rooted and grounded in His love.
God has a very big safety net for us and it is that reality of being truly rooted and grounded in Him and in His love that encompasses us.
It is just that when we are hurting, when we are scandalized, when we are angry, when we are experiencing all of this emotional turbulence, it is just — it takes time and prayer and I think a lot of coming to silence and coming to quiet to get through that and to realize that our Lord is still there. Our Lord is still holding his hands out to us. Our Lord is still there to embrace us and pick us up and guide us and help us to move forward.
What would you say to the priest who just doesn’t know how to address this from the pulpit, who is dealing with his own feelings of hurt and confusion, and maybe is on the fence about whether he should address it in a homily?
I think that the best thing that priest can do is to talk about that in his homily. It is emotionally exhausting for most of us. It is heartbreaking. When I preached a couple of weekends ago, I got emotional. I think it is very healing and good if priests allow themselves to feel and show that emotion. Feel and show how personally upsetting it is. If a priest is angry, tell your people, ‘Yeah, I’m angry too, and you should be angry.’ It should start there.
It is absolutely essential that this is addressed. No priest should be waiting for some directive from his bishop. I would hope that across the country most priests have already addressed this from the pulpit. If not, it absolutely has to happen.
People are very angry right now, and I do not think that they are identifying that anger as a hurt. Many people are channeling their anger into what needs to change in the Church. Some channel it at specific people in the Church.
You address healthy anger in the book, and I want to hear your thoughts on it in this context. What would you say to people who are very angry?
There is certainly such a thing as just anger. I would hope that most of the anger that what most committed Catholics are experiencing right now is precisely that — “just anger.” I have experienced a good deal of bit of it in the past few weeks.
Hopefully that anger does get channelled into good positive, action steps that I think Catholics are taking. But people should also be very honest with themselves: This hurts.
I think that our brothers and sisters who are going through this right now, and they are many, need to own up to that.
That is a very healthy starting point to getting to a better place. In this context, it is an important part of rightly channeling our energies and our reactions prayerfully and in docility to the Holy Spirit. We have to allow the Holy Spirit to come fully into that experience of hurt in this ecclesial context.
The immediate victims of McCarrick, those who have suffered sexual exploitation, they are hurt in a very unique way, but in some sense this has inflicted a hurt on all of us. And those who failed, those who enabled him, those who pulled him up the ecclesiastical ladder, if they did so with knowledge of his sexual predation, that inflicts a real emotional hurt on all of us, and we should just admit that.
Many Catholics first faced these initial feelings of betrayal, shock, bewilderment in 2002. After positive steps forward like the Dallas Charter, these Catholics found some consolation in the fact that the Church had made positive changes. Now there are layers of hurt there, particularly the hurt of thinking that things were better and then discovering that they are not.
The Church might not change in our lifetimes. Reform in the Church takes so long. The Church is very good at reforming herself, but it can take centuries sometimes. I’m worried for people who are looking for a quick fix.
I think that you are hitting at the heart of the problem. One thing that we are being faced with in this crisis is the reality that effective change within the Church takes a very, very long time. Even within organizations, people talk about changing the internal culture of a business, even that in itself can take a long time.
First of all, there is no reason why we cannot continue to take genuine pride in the programs that have been set in place with the sacrifice and dedication by the way of hundreds of lay Catholic men and women who have jumped into this breach and who have instituted requirements for background checks, safe environment training, safe environment programs, who serve the Church as sexual abuse assistance coordinators in dioceses (these are people who deal one on one especially with victims of clergy sexual abuse.) So we have every reason frankly to be confident that we are in a much better place then we were 15 years ago to protect our children. There is no reason to doubt that.
What people are still reeling from, and this has been the real revelation, is that there has been, especially within the episcopacy, there has been an internal culture which allowed — and I am not faulting all bishops here, but McCarrick is the child of an old boys school mentality, a culture where bishops too often understood themselves as members of this kind of privileged caste who used power and authority to manipulate and frankly to bring about all kind of harms and hurts in people’s lives. Bishops have sadly often been the perpetrators of much of the hurt that has been experienced on many levels and in many forms in the Church. And that is a sickly culture and it has to change.
The Church desperately needs a healing in its episcopacy. This is very much a crisis of the episcopacy. The current ethos is in so many ways it is failing us. It is failing the Church. What we have is, in far too many cases, a kind of managerial approach. Bishops simply seek to manage, to contain, to bureaucratize our apostolates, and that is not a culture where the Church is going to thrive.
Is that going to change anytime soon? No, but I think that we have an opportunity. This crisis is putting a spotlight on that problematic culture within the episcopate. I think that we can be hopeful for some kind of change, maybe even sea change.
There are good and holy bishops out there who are as incensed about this as you or I or any of us are. It is my prayer and hope that they will begin to exercise some very kind of unprecedented leadership within the body of bishops and certainly within their own dioceses.
So what do Catholics do meanwhile? Well, we are challenged to exercise the supernatural virtue of hope. We are challenged to believe that that kind of change, if it is meant to be, will take time, but we have to support every bishop who shows signs that they are getting it.
We have to support every bishop who shows signs that they understand and that they are taking unprecedented steps towards transparency, toward addressing even the faults of their own brother bishops.
We need to be supportive and helpful, and I guess that is a long way of saying that we need to hang in there and trust in the Holy Spirit. Change does take a long time in the Church. We are called to continue to exercise hope and it is by sustaining hope and sustaining a healthy pressure on the bishops that can bring about some really positive change here, maybe faster than we think.
As outrageous as it is, I can imagine the temptation a leader might feel to keep something so scandalous secret, to think that they were protecting Catholics from scandal by a sort of false charity, if you will. How does a leader find the courage or strength to come forward with the truth after they have covered up?
In the context of the Church, bishops who get it have come to understand that the scandal has been the supposed effort to “avoid scandal.” The scandal has been covering this stuff up. The scandal has been keeping this stuff quiet.
This is what I always tell our seminarians. Transparency is your friend. Light and truth are our friends. Institutionally, I think that we are understanding that. In the context of seminary formation, I really believe earnestly that the vast majority of our men understand that.
And I think understanding that also makes it easier to come clean when there has been a failure of any sort. In a sense, it all boils down to the old adage, ‘Honesty is the best policy.’
Obviously, when you are talking about something as complex as sexual abuse and exploitation, that is obviously much more complex because sometimes you are dealing with victims who desire to remain anonymous.
It takes an enormous amount of courage for victims of abuse to come forward and go public. That’s been one sad part of this whole tragedy. It is so difficult. The courage there is just amazing sometimes. I think the message of what we are learning in the sexual abuse crisis is that transparency is the only way to go.
Honestly trying to protect the requirements of justice and people’s reputations is a difficult balance and it definitely requires that transparency.
What do you recommend for those who are specifically dealing with disillusionment? How do Catholics keep their eyes open to the truth without totally succumbing to cynicism?
I think that the level of cynicism and disillusionment right now is off the charts.
You know people often use that image of having a bandage ripped off a wound. I don’t think that we have yet healed from — I know we haven’t healed from 2002. This isn’t having a bandage ripped off. This is having that wound ripped open and stamped on.
I’m fully expecting that the level of disillusionment and just shear kind of numb confusion is going to be a very common experience. I think that there will be different outcomes. I hope that Catholics can believe that there is a way forward here, especially committed Catholics.
It leads you to question your faith. I have been there. I have had that experience. The more you expose yourself to this, the more faith is going to be severely challenged.
I would just hope though that Catholics can understand that Jesus can lead them through that fire. He can lead us through this fire and make it a purifying fire, so that we can emerge from this really sad and really critical chapter of crisis in the Church, that we can emerge from this as stronger disciples and more committed Catholic Christians.
What transformation the Holy Spirit brings about, I hope we could no matter how hard this is, I hope we could kind of look forward to that with a sense of hope and expectation and maybe even the sense that as bad as it is, I want to be a part of what happens now. I want to be a part of the renewal that the Holy Spirit is going to necessarily going to bring about. I want to be a part of the action here. I want to be a part of what the Holy Spirit is going to do now in the Church.
I am absolutely convinced that the Holy Spirit is working in and through this crisis in a very real way. I have experienced it myself. I have seen it and I have heard it from others.
We have to allow the Holy Spirit to bring us beyond this very profound disillusionment.
[…]
Well, at least the cardinal proposes that Catholics should “stand” for something…
And, now since “we all have benefited from the renewal of the Church ushered in by the Second Vatican Council”–and everyone and even the notorious Pelosi and Biden et al now files up for Communion as a prelude to coffee and donuts–why shouldn’t this be characterized as just another “procession?”
Talk about a cardinal “drawing attention to oneself…”
As a former member of the archdiocese the only comment i can make is “how dare you Cardinal” tell the faithful that they MUST stand receiving the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Apparently the cardinal does not believe bowing or kneeling before the King is appropriate, rather, stand there and just reach out your hands to receive Him. Seriously, this cardinal needs to be removed by the Pope while I pray that he comes to his senses and a true Catholic shepherd.
Didn’t someone once say, “Every knee shall bow”? . . . Oh, yes! St. Paul, but he was, no doubt, one of those rigid backwardists.
Es importante recibir la comunión de rodillas y en la boca y no de pie y no en la mano,las partículas que se desprenden contienen el cuerpo completo de nuestro Señor,el modernismo o la forma no implica ningún avance en la evangelización al contrario ,promueve una falta de respeto muy grave que recae en el sacerdote y en los fieles,y claro el que está impedido físicamente debe permanecer de pie pero no recibir en la mano la santa comunión este fondo es importante y no lo que bruscamente opine el sacerdote conciliar
That certainly won’t happen in this pontificate. The Pope only has his knives out for liturgical traditionalists.
Unfortunately, Cupich and Francis are of one mind in this.
Or lack therif!
Cardinal Cupich seems to have a need to make a pronouncement every once in a while to remind us he’s still around.
About processions and positions and such, the cardinal’s timing (Dec. 11) almost seems intended to distract American attention from further antics by the puppet masters in Rome, to improve the position, so to speak, of the LGBTQ lobby–with a Jubilee 2025 networking celebration of their own in the Church of the Gesu (also reported on Dec. 11):
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/260989/organizers-and-supporters-reluctant-to-discuss-planned-lgbt-jubilee-day-in-rome
My lay comment is that this is not an outstanding comment if it’s in regards to kneeling. When I see someone kneel, which I’ve never seen take more than a few extra seconds for the able bodied, it does not appear to be drawing attention to the Communicant but to the Risen Lord Jesus in the Eucharist. (that person is not afraid to acknowledge the Savior)
Perhaps the most charitable response to reception of our beloved Jesus in Holy Communion is to follow his commandment – love God and love others. At a chapel I often attend, those who wish to receive Holy Communion while kneeling move to the front pews and kneel down signaling to the priest that there is a kneeling communion line, and the remainder of communicants form a communion line by standing. It seems to work, and honors both.
I can’t kneel due to knee issues, and I must choose to stand in line. At other churches, I’ve had several instances of almost toppling over the person in front of me as they unexpectedly kneel down. Since my knees are not the nimblest I’ve had to make a quick step back so as not to step on the kneeling person, causing me stress and pain in my knees and interrupting my prayer just before reception. Since I can’t kneel, it makes me embarrassed that others think I choose not to kneel since the person in front of me just did so (i.e., my depth of reverence is less than the one before me).
Again, there are many ways to show our deepest adoration of God, but we need to do so also being mindful of those around us. Surely, we can find a path that honors both.
Good points Sir, but don’t worry about what others think at this apex of the mass. As far as I’m concerned, they can dim the church lights and shine them only on the Eucharist reception area during communion.
The last will be first.
You don’t need to kneel because the person in front of you kneeled. It’s not being done to make a personal comment on you and the other communicants. In general, people aren’t paying as much attention to us as we imagine.
As far as the knee problems, quite a few people develop knee and/or back problems by the time they are middle-aged, and younger people who are active in sports or dance can have them too, so I would not feel too self-conscious about that. It’s a good idea to allow a little extra space in front of yourself when moving forward in a line.
When I find myself feeling self-conscious about what the people around me at Mass may be thinking about whatever I am doing–and those moments do happen– I remind myself to redirect my attention to the Lord and whether I am pleasing Him. Now, it could be that when you see someone kneeling before receiving the Eucharist, you feel inspired to make an extra sign of devotion too, although kneeling on the floor won’t work for you, so a reverent bow or slight genuflection is better. That is common at the Masses I attend.
When the hand to mouth option came along, we were taught to do as you said, bow as you near or genuflect, then step to the side, face the crucifix and eat the host, make the sign and move along.
The problem of people in front of you unexpectedly kneeling is a very good reason to provide kneelers. They aren’t particularly expensive, they allow people who are older or in poor health to kneel if they desire, and most churches already have them.
They also make it clear what the person is about to do so that the tendency to leave only a foot or less between the person ahead of you in a line is naturally reduced. You don’t have to think very hard to refrain from crowding a kneeler. It also clearly signals to everyone, priest included, that kneeling is going to happen, without the people who intend to kneel needing to remember to segregate themselves.
I’ve seen this done, and it seemed quite effective.
Of course he did. He’s a Protestant who obviously doesn’t believe in the Real Presence. God save us from wolves…..in wolves clothing.
In my youth in the 1950’s we knelt and received on the tongue from the priest’s consecrated hands. Belief in the real presence was near universal.
We now have what one priest commentator called “grab and go.” Belief in the real presence is less than 50%.
Actions have consequences.
Yes, especially the VII liturgical reform that Cardinal Cupich so endlessly idolizes.
Once again the diminutive Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago seized the opportunity to remind everyone of how truly insignificant he is in the grand scheme of things.
I’m just thinking about the insensitivity of current hierarchy figures pronouncing controversial statements during the Advent/Christmas season when people and families don’t need more stress but peace. It was also last year the Vatican came out with the homosexual blessing thing during this time. Come on! I wish they be more sensitive and consider their timing, they know what things are going to stir controversy.
I don’t understand the Cardinal’s argument
about not drawing attention to yourself or not impeding the flow of the procession.
In the local parishes I attend, some people kneel and some stand to receive Holy
Communion. So, where is the problem? It works smoothly this way. If I may speculate,
from what I observe, many who kneel are very devout and traditional – the very people the
Vatican targets. Could this be another attempt not only to wipe out the Latin Mass, but
any practice which has been associated with it?
Another fuhrerbefel from the windy city! Wonder how the Magi would feel, given that they did the right thing: They presented their gifts and knelt before Him in adoration!
The reform called for by Vatican II was to take place by everyone being more deeply educated about The Mass and other parts of the Church’s Liturgy. We have the education provided by Scripture, Tradition, and the Saints…and then everyone else all over the place. Teachings by JPII, Benedict XVI, Mother Teresa are obviously authentic, while this red-hat-wearing walks and “leads” in the way of the world, hostile to God.
It brings to mind the great words of Mother Angelica, speaking against another very worldly creature, when she said to the world, “My obedience in the diocese would be absolute zero,” (properly understood – “Do what they say, not what they do”).
She paid the price for her loyalty to our Saviour. But God Himself showed who spoke His Truth, and spoke for His Son authentically, sending the All Holy Virgin to perform the miracle of her healing before all the world.
He spoke very loudly, but few if any of our “leaders” listened.
Do what they say. But, as our Dear Savior continued, “…do NOT do what they do.”
They (may) receive the greater condemnation, teaching as doctrines the mere precepts of men…
I think this is the first salvo of the “liturgical reform” of “synodality” for a “participatory church” yada yada yada…. The closing document opened this door but left it undefined. I think Cupich is trying to fill in the lines. In other words, more Bugnini-type “liturgy from above” imposed as supposedly the will of the people and of the Spirit (with little evidence of either)
No priest or bishop can deny a person Communion if said person chooses to kneel. Roman Rite Catholics (should) have the option to do both, kneeling or standing. In the Byzantine Rite though, standing is the norm when receiving the Eucharist. Kneeling is gently discouraged. Some people might interpret it as Romans kneeling before the Cross, and Byzantines standing with the Risen Christ.
When in Byzantium, do as the Byzantines. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Standing is not our tradition, and while I always appreciate hearing and seeing what the other Churches do, I rather object to their traditions being used as an argument against ours. (I know you did not do this).
When meeting the Risen Christ, St. Mary Magdalen is typically portrayed (at least in the Latin tradition) as kneeling, often holding on to His feet. The meaning of kneeling is not restricted to penitential or sorrowful themes for us.
Cardinal Cupich long ago became a caricature of the sixties priest. Its a new century with ample ecclesial experience under our belts. Time to release youthful deceptions.
Jesus Christ is Lord and we provide Him all praise, honor, glory and joyful submission. No one with any faith or perception need provide any impediment.
Do you all realize how ironic Bishop Cupich’s Advent Declaration is? He castigates those who have the temerity to kneel while receiving the Body and Blood of Christ because by doing so they call attention to themselves. Yet, in Bishop Cupich’s Declaration he has done just that – called attention to himself. He always seems to stir the ecclesial pot with some stupid and unnecessary statement that gets him all the attention he seems to crave. I’d describe him as ‘puerile.’ Time for the episcopal nursing home.
Cardinal Cupich turned 75 earlier this year, and formally sent his mandatory letter of resignation to Pope Francis, so hopefully the Chicago archdiocese will have a better shepherd soon.
In our small parish (Liverpool diocese in England) almost one in ten choose to receive kneeling, and some more standing on the tongue, disturbance to the flow is negligible. Much more delay is caused by the two people who need low gluten hosts. I cause most problem because I currently have a balance problem and have to clutch the arm of someone else, delaying them and having to stand there while they receive. Also, as we have a narrow centre aisle obstructing the flow all the while I approach and return.
CLAPTRAP or Gobble-de-gook if you prefer!
Cupich is just another petty tyrant promoted way beyond his skill and abilities by a Pope hellbent on imposing his will on the “backwardist” and “rigid” Catholics.