Vatican City, Feb 15, 2017 / 12:01 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Hopes are on the rise for an agreement between the Vatican and China on the appointment of bishops, with Cardinal John Tong Hon, Archbishop of Hong Kong again making the case for a possible proposal.
He made his case in a Feb. 11 article for the Hong Kong’s Sunday Examiner newspaper, and follows up on his previous article from August 2016. His latest article is filled with a certain optimism.
Cardinal Tong wrote that a Vatican-China agreement on appointing bishops will be “the crux of the problem and a milestone in the process of normalizing the relationship between the two parties,” but it is “by no means the end of the issue.” It would be “unrealistic, if not impossible” to expect disagreements to be cleared up overnight.
To summarize, Cardinal Tong maintained that Chinese government will finally recognize the Pope as the supreme authority of the Church, and the Pope will be given the power to veto any candidate to the episcopacy he does not deem fit for the post. The cardinal also explained that the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association, that is the state-controlled church, will turn into a voluntary body with which bishops can freely affiliate. He voiced optimism for the eventual reconciliation of the seven illicit bishops appointed without the Pope’s consent. The cardinal also hoped for the future recognition of the bishops of the “underground Church.”
Despite the general optimism seen in Cardinal Tong’s words, the final agreement is yet to come, a source with knowledge of the Vatican-China talks told CNA under condition of anonymity.
The source explained the agreement this way: “The Chinese government wants to keep control of the appointment of bishops, and Rome cannot diminish the supreme authority of the pontiff. So, we meet in the middle.”
One possible plan for agreement is that “the Holy See may accept the election of candidate for the episcopate, though it knows that these elections take place under state control and that bishops of China’s bishops’ conference all belong to the government-controlled patriotic association.”
On the other hand, the source added, the Chinese government would “accept that any ‘election’ needs to be approved by the Pope, even though no elections should take place to appoint a bishop.”
The source compared this situation of mutual agreement to a famous image of three monkeys: “I don’t see, I don’t hear, I don’t speak.” He added that “although the Holy See is conscious that elections are not free, they are fake,” Vatican negotiators prefer to “silently accept this, in order to have bishops faithful to Rome and in communion with the Pope since the beginning.”
Cardinal Tong, in his latest article, noted that Catholic doctrine places the Pope as “the last and highest authority in appointing bishops.” This means that “if the Pope has the final word about the worthiness and suitability of an episcopal candidate, the elections of local churches and the recommendations of the bishops’ conference of the Catholic Church in China will simply be a way to express recommendations.”
Cardinal Tong thus aimed to respond to the concerns of Cardinal Joseph Zen, his predecessor as Archbishop of Hong Kong. In speeches, letters and articles, Cardinal Zen took a strong position against the agreement, saying that it undermined the authority of the Holy See. Cardinal Zen asked the Holy See not to make any agreement before China guarantees full religious freedom.
According to Cardinal Tong, there are three issues at stake: how to tackle the issue of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association; how to deal with the seven illicitly ordained bishops, who are excommunicated latae sententiae for having violated canon law; and how to handle the issue of more than 30 bishops from the underground Church, whom the Chinese government does not recognize.
The cardinal said a relationship between the patriotic association’s concept of an “independent, autonomous and self-run Church” and the self-nominating and self-ordination of bishops is “a relationship between theory and practice.” Both practices “are in fact the product of a distinctive political environment and pressure.”
The Archbishop of Hong Kong said that under the possible agreement the Pope will “now play a role in the nomination and ordination of Chinese bishops” and that “Beijing will also recognize the Pope’s right of veto and that the Pope is the highest and final authority in deciding on candidates for bishop in China.”
According to Cardinal Tong, this way the Vatican-China agreement would turn the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association into “a patriotic association in its strict, literal sense,” that is: “a voluntary, non-profit, patriotic and Church-loving organization composed of clergy and faithful from all around the country.”
The situation is far more complex than this, since de facto every “official” bishop recognized by Beijing is required to be a member of the patriotic association. Critics of the possible agreement noted the case of Shanghai auxiliary Bishop Taddeus Ma Daqin, who dared to resign from the association at his ordination Mass in 2012 and was immediately placed under house arrest. Though he appeared to renounce his stand against the Catholic Patriotic Association in mid-2016, he is still living in isolation in Shanghai’s Sheshan seminary, with no episcopal dignity.
In addition to this situation, UCA News has reported that China’s State Administration of Religious Affairs on Jan. 26 posted a decision to “enhance government legal powers over religious work” through an amended regulation in order to “maintain accountability via the strict management of Communist Party members.”
The Chinese administration also stressed that the Chinese administration said it would “steadily push forward” to the Catholic Church “to elect and ordain bishops on its own.” This is a positive sign for Sino-Vatican relations, observers said.
If the problem of the appointment of bishops would finally find a solution, a solution would still be needed for the seven bishops who were illicitly ordained and thus de facto excommunicated.
Beyond the illicit ordination, some of these bishops are also accused of moral misconduct that needs to be assessed.
The difficulty, as Cardinal Tong says, is that given the unstable relationship between China and the Holy See, the Holy See cannot investigate directly. Thus the Chinese official institutions would need to investigate, a process that would take time.
The Pope is the only one who can lift such an excommunication. Participants in the illicit consecration can secure a papal pardon but they “need to show repentance,” the cardinal said. He added that all of the bishops illicitly ordained are willing to pay their obedience to the Pope.
According to CNA’s Vatican source, the Holy See is looking for a “midway point” for the election of bishops and an agreement between “the practice of choosing candidates by a diocesan patriotic commission” and finding candidates that “can be also appreciated and accepted by the underground community.”
The source also added that “it is undeniable that the agreement does not fulfill all the requirements, we are not satisfied with that.”
“Anytime there is an agreement, it means that you lose some freedom. That is a problem for us. But we do understand that at the moment we cannot do anything better,” the source said.
The agreement could be a solution that would allow the appointment of bishops in still-vacant dioceses. The Chinese administration abolished some dioceses, and the Holy See could dissolve some dioceses too to address the current situation.
“Once, some dioceses were entrusted to missionary congregations, and nowadays these congregations are no more, and there are no more foreign missionaries in continental China,” the source said.
The possibility of a “Vietnam solution” for the appointment of bishops was even put on the table.
The agreement will likely be based on Cardinal Pietro Parolin’s model implemented in Vietnam back in 1996: the Holy See proposes a set of three bishops to the Hanoi government, and Hanoi makes its choice.
However, CNA’s source maintained, “China always dismissed a Vietnam solution.” For him, the situation in Vietnam is “completely different.”
Despite the initial difficulties like Hanoi’s delayed responses that left dioceses vacant for a long period, the Vietnam situation has worked out decently and there is a relationship of significant trust between the parties.
The Holy See has appointed a non-resident envoy to Hanoi, a first step toward the possible establishment of diplomatic ties.
The Chinese situation is even more complex, and also implies the necessity that the Chinese administration will recognize the 30 underground bishops.
According to Cardinal Tong, this problem is “not deadlocked.” In his view, the underground Church results from a special political and historic period when “there was no mutual trust between the Holy See and Beijing, and this indirectly led to a lack of trust between the government and the unofficial community bishops.”
However, the cardinal notes, “should there be an agreement between the Holy See and China that will imply considerable mutual trust between the parties. The bishops of the unofficial community would no longer be regarded as the opposition for insisting on religious principles.”
This means the government’s view of them would improve.
Cardinal Tong also underscored several times that the underground bishops in China are in fact “examples of patriotic citizens.”
He said the government attitude towards these unofficial communities has “changed a lot in recent years.” As mutual trust develops between Rome and Beijing, so too will stability and strength.
The talks for an agreement do not include the establishment of diplomatic ties. That will come later, according to CNA’s source knowledgeable of the Sino-Vatican dialogue.
At the moment, the Holy See’s nunciature to China is established in Taipei, the capital of Taiwan. The country is seen by the People’s Republic of China as no more than a rebel province.
The Holy See relationship with Taiwan is one of the biggest hurdles to the establishment of any diplomatic tie with China.
In recent decades, the nunciature has no longer been headed by a nuncio, but by a lower ranked diplomat, a chargé d’affairs. Msgr. Paul Fitzpatrick Russell, the most recent chargé d’affairs, was appointed apostolic nuncio to Turkey in March 2016, thus leaving a vacancy in the post.
It was thought that the vacancy was intended to ease relations between the Holy See and mainland China. The post in fact did not stay vacant. The new chargé d’affairs is Msgr. Sladan Cosic. The nomination was not publicly announced, and this has also a meaning.
According to CNA’s Vatican source, the Holy See would be ready to drop its diplomatic presence in Taiwan, but this would not harm relations there. The Holy See could even strengthen its presence on the Taiwanese territory, with a more specific focus on pastoral concerns.
[…]
How can we help ?
Maybe we can help each other . In complete fear and trembling I attest to the truth of the very same . Just like in all for Gospels. He showed up
I’ve been taking photos and fear I’m not supposed to have so many . My partner in witness for seven years is now somewhere else as she knew I must return : We must return to our first family my name is DARRYL Joseph Spears and I could use some help with what I have witnessed to and never will change my Spirit or my beliefs in the Holy Family JESUS Joseph and MARY
With GOD the HOLY FATHER
( The one and only Nucleus )The very same GOD Jesus Christ and his Family pray to
So I’m Catholic and I’m a TODAY WAY WALKER He said I have no council and I believe what GOD says every single word HE is my witness and my council and keeps me from loosing my mind and corruption from my spirit for his timing is perfect I visit other Christian churches and find myself returning to the Catholic sacrament
I’m sure there are ways to fellowship and having some of the most difficult times finding this without signing up for a class among so many other things in my life and just today Was giving some information about serving two GODs ,” Money and Career or GOD
No wonder I’m not able to work at my ripe age of 59
I have so much to offer in ways however I also have worn myself out trying to keep up Sometime I feel as if I really dense and then the word and straightens me back out
I’m not liking worldly things anymore nor the persiut of and I want to follow Christ in every way possible I believe in the power of the living written word and the power of prayer and fasting ( Isiah 58 )
I also understand why Aron wanted to be like Moses He just didn’t understand why he Moses could hear GOD and he could not
Two must Witness
Two – one hears the other imparts knowledge Or one hears and the other sees etc like Paul said in the book of Corinthians also
CHRIST IMMANUEL said he spoke in parable and then had to explain them even to his beloved friends the disciples
Poor, poor Mary.
It’s not enough for her to have her Son taken from her so cruelly and brutally by the likes of us.
She now has to suffer the indignity of having her supernatural appearances and consoling words submitted for validation by a panel of “experts.”
Never mind that there is no possible way to assure that anyone acquires an expertise on such a rare and utterly irreproducible phenomenon as visitations from a heavenly personage.
I cannot help but wonder why the Vatican didn’t learn its lesson about “experts” after their “experts” assured us that priests who molested children could be fixed with therapy and a change of venue.
Does anyone remember how that worked out?
Someone should write a prayer: “A Petition for Divine Protection from Experts” and have it mailed to every cardinal, archbishop, bishop and pope.
At least every other week.
I’m sorry, but no good will come of this new bureaucracy of experts.
A legitimate focus is not only on the content of possible apparitions, but also on the seer and his or her backstory, and the critical role of early interactions with others. Two points, and a question (scroll down!):
FIRST, this hypothesis has already been professionally and fairly explored in connection with the full range of authentic and inauthentic Marian apparitions in the Catholic world, by Sandra L. Zimdars-Schwartz, an associate professor of Religious Studies at the University of Kansas (Sandra L. Zimdars-Schwartz, Encountering Mary, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1991).
She found that tangible definition to an initial experience is often given by others (!) to what can be the vague and subjective experience of the possible mystic. She also found that an added role can be played by earlier instances of personal suffering and rejection (!) and the occasional tendency to “project into their post-experience environment the negative aspects of what they have experienced for example, paranoia leading to racism, anti-Semitism, hyper-nationalism” (p. 270).
SECOND, on these points, and in a separate and ambitious work dealing with self-image and political outcomes, Alan Bullock examined the psychological influences behind Hitler and Stalin (Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives, New York: Vintage Books, 1993, pp. 3-17). In the life of Hitler, early family tensions and a sequence of rejections (dismissal from a Vienna art school) contributed to his fantasies and Wagnerian self-image, his strong resentment for German victimization at Versailles, and his racial ideology.
In the case of Stalin, his only systematic education was ten years in a particular monastic setting where a dogmatic, suspicious and watchful environment earned his lifelong disdain. Based carefully on Freud, Erik Erickson (on adolescent development) and Erich Fromm (on narcissism), Bullock found that when Stalin discovered Marxist ideology this reinforced his already acquired personal dispositions (a monastic-like police state?). However, this interpretation seems to downplay the fact that under the czar, Stalin himself spent four years as a prisoner in a Siberian camp near Turukhansk from 1913-1917 (a point alluded to in cynical camp folklore from the Gulag period—reported in Mihajlo Mihajlov, Moscow Summer, New York: Farrar, Straus and Giboux, 1965, pp. 76-85).
QUESTION: The role of experts is not to verify apparitions, but to filter out what are only shaped and amplified subjective experiences. (Hitler’s mother erred early by taking her son to Vienna instead of a psychologist.) And, in any event, today, the apostolic succession and the role of local bishops should not be replaced eventually (?) by sociologists and such.
So, wondering here if the same rigor is being applied by synodal “experts” to “aggregated, compiled, and synthesized” (NOT filtered?) utterances–not from Mary, butt from nothing less than the God Almighty: the Holy Spirit!
We can know through both Faith and Reason that this message is not from Our Blessed Mother but from those seeking a globalist ecumenical religion where we will be “like gods declaring what is good and evil”, and thus declaring, in essence, The Blessed Trinity, The Author Of Love, Of Life, And Of Marriage does not exist.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/what-do-messages-lady-of-medjugorje-mean/
What a lot of rubbish! There are no ghosts, boogymen, or “apparitions” in this world! The Church has fed off people’s religious gullibility for centuries AND made a tonne of money from it! Lourdes springs to mind! This is why the Church is struggling in the Western world as we have to suspend relational thought and accept this stupidity. Next thing you’ll tell us that the Shroud of Turin is authentic.
Don’t forget the appearance of the blessed Virgin Mary in, of all places, Holy Scripture, where observers discovered her heart revealed in the Magificat, where she clearly stated “My soul doth magnify the Lord, AND MY SPIRIT REJOICETH IN GOD, MY SAVIOUR…”
To be sure, it’s a sighting of Mary that is timeless, not limited to only a few children, but to all of God’s children who are willing to open up their codes of The Holy Bible, and realize that Mary has a timely message for our generation as well as those who came before us: In no uncertain words, Saint Mary declares that, like us, she too was in need of a Saviour. For her, like the rest of the Bride of Christ, the Church throughout the world, but also the Church throughout time, God in His great mercy, sent Messiah Jesus into our world, to pay for all the sins of the world, including her own. For “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, which would include Mary, Joseph, you and I. Scripture does not call her without sin. “But if we confess our sins, God, who is Holy and just will forgive our sins, and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.” She, too was forgiven. Mary, full of grace, because Almighty God infused such grace within her. God chose her, not the most popular, rich, influential woman of her time, but, like David, physical traits and outer beauty is not what our God highly prizes. Almighty God worked through her mightily, including those childhood years we hear so little about. But meek, humble Mary was obedient to God, by His strength, and she did not seek to overshadow Christ Jesus our Lord, the God-man, but was willing to fill a supportive life of service to our God and of our Christ, in the company of the Holy Spirit. Mary does not seek to be worshipped, like a goddess. But she is not worshipped, she is venerated. Surely, respect and admiration is due her, for God worked mightily through her. Yet she would mot seek titles such as “Queen of Heaven.” Instead, she would rightly redirect the gory and the thanks and the praise to God Himself, not to present and future ambitions due to rewards. Instead of clinging to pride or a sense of entitlement, St. Mary would cry out SOLI DEO GLORIA! To God Alone be the Glory. Rather than seeking novena said about her role, she, like Mother Theresa, would be more concerned with intercession and aid to those who are hungry, friendless, and “unimportant.” Rather than rejoicing over the Church catholic repeating Hail Mary’s ad infinitum, she would be much more concerned with the widow’s and orphans, and those oppressed by drug cartels, and those living in lands where even today, Christians must worship in secret, as the early Church did.
Jesus once declared, “An evil and wicked generation seeks after signs and wonders…” Must we place our faith in apparitions of Mary, when she revealed her very heart in the beautiful Song of Mary? It is not a weakness, that Mary, like us, was in need of salvation provided by the most precious sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, given and shed for you, for me, for Mary, and for the World (St. Jn. 3.16,17). God has Sanctified her as true and perfect Holiness can come from God Alone.
“Why do you call me ‘good’. Only God is good.” Should we not seek Mary where we know we can find her, in Holy Scripture. The Church Fathers reinforce what we learn from the Word of God, where they agree with these timeless words.
I agree. Thank you.
But meek, humble Mary was obedient to God, by His strength, and she did not seek to overshadow Christ Jesus our Lord, the God-man, but was willing to fill a supportive life of service to our God and of our Christ, in the company of the Holy Spirit. Mary does not seek to be worshipped, like a goddess. But she is not worshipped, she is venerated. Surely, respect and admiration is due her, for God worked mightily through her. Yet she would mot seek titles such as “Queen of Heaven.” Instead, she would rightly redirect the gory and the thanks and the praise to God Himself, not to present and future ambitions due to rewards. Instead of clinging to pride or a sense of entitlement, St. Mary would cry out SOLI DEO GLORIA! To God Alone be the Glory. Rather than seeking novena said about her role, she, like Mother Theresa, would be more concerned with intercession and aid to those who are hungry, friendless, and “unimportant.” Rather than rejoicing over the Church catholic repeating Hail Mary’s ad infinitum, she would be much more concerned with the widow’s and orphans, and those oppressed by drug cartels, and those living in lands where even today, Christians must worship in secret, as the early Church did.
Jesus once declared, “An evil and wicked generation seeks after signs and wonders…” Must we place our faith in apparitions of Mary, when she revealed her very heart in the beautiful Song of Mary? It is not a weakness, that Mary, like us, was in need of salvation provided by the most precious sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, given and shed for you, for me, for Mary, and for the World (St. Jn. 3.16,17). God has Sanctified her as true and perfect Holiness can come from God Alone.
“Why do you call me ‘good’. Only God is good.” Should we not seek Mary where we know we can find her, in Holy Scripture. The Church Fathers reinforce what we learn from the Word of God, where they agree with these timeless words.