Aboard the papal plane, Sep 11, 2017 / 10:10 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In his conversation with journalists on the return flight from Cartagena to Rome on Monday, Pope Francis touched on a variety of topics, notably the US government’s decision to end DACA and the crisis in Venezuela.
He also touched on the peace process in Colombia, Hurricane Irma, climate change, and migration during his Sept. 11 flight.
Please find below CNA’s full transcript of the Pope’s in-flight press conference.
Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father, for the time you are dedicating to us today after an intense, tiring trip; very tiring for some, but also a very fruitful trip. On several occasions you thanked the people for what they taught you. We also learn many things in this culture of encounter and we thank you for it.
Colombia in particular, with its recent past, and not only recent, offered us some strong testimonies, some emotional testimonies of forgiveness and reconciliation. But it also offered us a continuous lesson of joy and hope, two words that you used a lot in this trip. Now perhaps you want to say something, and then we can go to the questions. Thank you.
Pope Francis: Good afternoon and thank you very much for your work. I am moved by the joy, the tenderness, the youth and the goodness of the Colombian people. A noble people that isn’t afraid to express how they feel, isn’t afraid to listen and to make seen how they feel. This is how I perceive it. This is the third time I remember [that I have been in Colombia] – but there is a bishop who told me: no, you have been a fourth time – but only for small meetings. One time in Laceja and the other two in Bogota, or three, but, I did not know Colombia well, what you see on the streets. Well, I appreciate the testimony of joy, of hope, of patience in suffering of this people. It did me a lot of good. Thank you.
Greg Burke: Okay, Holy Father. The first question is from César Moreno of Radio Caracol.
Moreno: Thank you, Your Holiness. Good evening. First of all, I would like to thank you on behalf of all the Colombian media that are accompanying us here on this trip, and all of the colleagues and friends for having come to our country, for having given us so many beautiful, profound and affectionate messages, and for such closeness that you demonstrated to the Colombian people. Thank you, Your Holiness.
You arrived, Holy Father, to a divided country. Divided on account of a peace process, between those who accept and those who don’t accept this process. What concretely can be done, what steps can be taken, so that the divided parts grow closer, so that our leaders stop this hate, this grudge? If Your Holiness returns, if you could return to our country in a few years, what do you think, how would you like to see Colombia? Thank you.
Pope Francis: I would like the motto to at least be: “Let us take the second step.” That at least it is this. I thought that there were more. I counted 60, but they told me 54 years of the guerrillas, more or less. And here it accumulates a lot, a lot. A lot of hatred, a lot of resentment, a lot of sickness in the soul. And the sickness isn’t to blame. It comes. The measles grabs and drags you…oh, sorry! I’ll speak in Italian. The sickness is not something to blame, it comes. And in these guerrilla wars – that they really waged, whether they were guerrillas, paramilitaries, or others – and also the corruption in the country, they committed gross sins that lead to this disease of hatred, of…But if they have taken steps that give hope, steps in negotiation, but it has been the last. The ELN ceasefire, and I am very grateful for it, very grateful for this. But there is something else that I perceived. The desire to go forward in this process goes beyond negotiations that they are being done or should be done. It is a spontaneous desire, and this is the strength of the people. This people wants to breathe, but we must help them with the closeness of prayer, and above all with the understanding of how much pain there is inside so many people.
Greg Burke: Now Holy Father, José Mojica, from El Tiempo.
José Mojica: Holy Father, it’s an honor to be here, to be here with you. My name is José Mojica and I am a journalist for El Tiempo, the editorial home of Colombia, and I also greet you in the name of my Colombian colleagues and all communications media in my country.
Colombia has suffered many decades of violence due to the war, the armed conflict and also drug trafficking. However, the ravages of corruption in politics have been just as damaging as the war itself, and although corruption is not new, we have always known that it exists, now it’s more visible because we no longer have news of the war and the armed conflict. What can we do in front of this scourge, up to what point can we stand the corrupt, how do we punish them? And finally, should the corrupt be excommunicated?
Pope Francis: You ask me a question I have asked myself many times. I put it to myself in this way: do the corrupt have forgiveness? I asked myself like this. And I asked myself when there was an act of…in the province of Catamarca, in Argentina, an act of mistreatment, abuse, the rape of a girl. And there were people stuck there, very attached to political and economic powers in this province.
An article published in La Nacion at that time moved me a lot, and I wrote a small book which is called “Sin and Corruption.” …always we are all sinners, and we know that the Lord is close to us, that he never tires of forgiving. But the difference: God never tires of forgiving, the sinner sometimes wakes up and asks for forgiveness. The problem is that the corrupt get tired of asking for forgiveness and forget how to ask for forgiveness, and this is the serious problem. It’s a state of insensitivity before values, before destruction, before the exploitation of people. They are not able to ask forgiveness, it’s like a condemnation, so it’s very hard to help the corrupt, very hard. But God can do it. I pray for that.
Greg Burke: Holy Father, now Hernan Reyes, from TELAM.
Hernán Reyes: Holiness, the question is from the Spanish language group of journalists. You spoke of this first step that Colombia has made. Today at the Mass, you said that there hasn’t been enough dialogue between the two parts, but was it necessary to incorporate more actors. Do you think it’s possible to replicate this Colombia model in other conflicts in the world?
Pope Francis: Integrating other people. Also today in the homily I spoke of this, taking a passage from the Gospel. Integrating other people. It’s not the first time, in so many conflicts many people have been involved. It’s a way of moving ahead, a sapiential way of politics. There is the wisdom of asking for help, but I believe that today I wished to note it in the homily – which is a message, more than a homily – I think that these technical, let’s say ‘political’, resources help and interventions of the United Nations are sometimes requested to get out of the crisis. But a peace process will go forward only when the people take it in their hands. If the people don’t take it in hand, it can go a bit forward, they arrive at a compromise. It is what I have tried to make heard during this visit: the protagonist of the peace process either is the people or it arrives to a certain point, but when the people take it in hand, they are capable of doing it well… that is the higher road.
Greg Burke: Now, Elena Pinardi.
Elena Pinardi (EBU): Good evening, Holiness. First of all, we would like to ask how you are doing. We saw that you hit your head… how are you? Did you hurt yourself?
Pope Francis: I turned there to greet children and I didn’t see the glass and boom!
Pinardi: The question is this: while we were flying, we passed close to Hurricane Irma, which after causing … deaths and massive damage in the Caribbean islands and Cuba, it’s feared that broad areas of Florida could end up underwater, and 6 million people have had to leave their homes. After Hurricane Harvey, there have been almost simultaneously three hurricanes in the area. Scientists say that the warming of the oceans is a factor that contributes to making the storms and seasonal hurricanes more intense. Is there a moral responsibility for political leaders who reject collaborating with the other nations to control the emission of greenhouse gas? Why do they deny that climate change is also be the work of man?
Pope Francis: Thanks. For the last part, to not forget, whoever denies this should go to the scientists and ask them. They speak very clearly. The scientists are precise. The other day, when the news of that Russian boat came out, I believe, that went from Norway to Japan or Taipei by way of the North Pole without an icebreaker and the photographs showed pieces of ice. To the North Pole, you could go. It’s very, very clear. When that news came from a university, I don’t remember from where, another came out that said, ‘We only have three years to turn back, otherwise the consequences will be terrible.’ I don’t know if three years is true or not, but if we don’t turn back we’re going down, that’s true. Climate change, you see the effects and scientists say clearly which is the path to follow. And all of us have a responsibility, all… everyone… a little one, a big one, a moral responsibility, and to accept from the opinion or make decisions, and we have to take it seriously. I think it’s something that’s not to joke around with. It’s very serious. And you ask me: what is the moral responsibility. Everyone has his. Politicians have their own. Everyone has their own according to the response he gives.
I would say: everyone has their own moral responsibility, first. Second, if one is a bit doubtful that this is not so true, let them ask the scientists. They are very clear. They are not opinions on the air, they are very clear. And then let them decide, and history will judge their decisions. Thanks.
Enzo Romeo (TG2): Good afternoon, Holy Father. I unite myself to the question my colleague made earlier because you frequently in the speeches you gave in Colombia, called again, in some way, to make peace with creation. Respecting the environment as a necessary condition so that a stable social peace may be created. The effects of climate change, here in Italy – I don’t know if you’ve been informed – has caused many deaths in Livorno…
Pope Francis: After three-and-a-half months of drought.
Romeo: … much damage in Rome. We are all concerned by this situation. Why is there a delay in taking awareness, especially by governments, that nevertheless appear to be solicitous perhaps in other areas, for example, in arms trade? We are seeing the crisis in Korea, also about this I would like to have your opinion.
Pope Francis: Why? A phrase comes to me from the Old Testament, I believe from the Psalm: Man is stupid. He is stubborn one who does not see, the only animal of creation that puts his leg in the same hole is man… the horse, no, they don’t do it… There is arrogance, the sufficiency of “it’s not like that,” and then there is the “pocket” God, not only about creation, so many decisions, so many contradictions (…) depend on money. Today, in Cartagena, I started in a part, let’s call it poor, of Cartagena. The other part, the touristic side, luxury, luxury without moral measure… but those who go there don’t realize this, or the socio-political analysts don’t realize… ‘man is stupid,’ the Bible said. It’s like that: when you don’t want to see, you don’t see. You just look in another direction. And of North Korea, I’ll tell the truth, I don’t understand. Truly, I don’t understand that world of geopolitics. It’s very tough for me. But I believe that what I see, there is a struggle of interests that don’t escape me, I truly can’t explain… but the other important thing: we don’t take awareness. Think to Cartagena today. Is this unjust. Can we take awareness? This is what comes to me. Thanks.
Valentina Alazraki, Noticieros Televisa: I’m sorry. Holy Father, every time you meet with youth in any part of the world you always tell them: ‘Don’t let yourselves be robbed of hope, don’t let yourselves be robbed of the future.’ Unfortunately, in the United States they have abolished the law of the “dreamers.” They speak of 800,000 youth: Mexicans, Colombians, from many countries. Do you think that with the abolition of this law the youth lose joy, hope and their future? And, after, abusing your kindness, could you make a small prayer, a small thought, for all the victims of the earthquake in Mexico and of Hurricane Irma? Thank you.
Pope Francis: I have heard of this law. I have not been able to read the articles, how the decision was made. I don’t know it well. Keeping young people away from family is not something that brings good fruit. Every young person has their family. I think that this law, which I think comes not from parliament [sic], but from the executive, if this is the case, which I am not sure, I hope that it will be rethought a little, because I have heard the President of the United States speak as a pro-life man. If he is a good pro-life man, he understands that the family is the cradle of life, and unity must be defended. This is what comes to me. That’s why I’m interested in studying the law well.
Truly, when youth feel, in general, whether in this case or another, exploited, in the end they feel that they have no hope. And who steals it from them? Drugs, other dependencies, suicide…youth suicide is very strong and comes when they are taken out from their roots. Uprooted young people today ask for help, and this is why I insist so much on dialogue between the elderly and the youth. That they talk to their parents, but (also) the elderly. Because the roots are there…[inaudible] to avoid the conflicts that can happen with the nearest roots, with the parents. But today’s youth need to rediscover their roots. Anything that goes against the root robs them of hope. I don’t know if I answered, more or less.
Alazraki: They can be deported from the United States…
Pope Francis: Eh, yes, the lose a root. But truthfully, on this law I don’t want to express myself, because I have not read it and I don’t like to talk about something I don’t understand.
And then, Valentina is Mexican, and Mexico has suffered a lot. I ask everyone for solidarity with the dean (Editor’s note: a reference to the journalist, who is a veteran reporter and on friendly terms with the Pope) and a prayer for the country. Thank you.
Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father. Now, Fausto Gasparroni from ANSA.
Fausto Gasparroni: Holiness, in the name of the Italian group, I’d like to pose you a question about the issue of immigrants, particularly about what the Italian Church has recently expressed, let’s say, a sort of comprehension about the new policy of the government of restricting the exit from Libya in boats. It has been written also that about this you had a meeting with the President of the Council, Gentiloni. We’d like to know if effectively in this meeting this topic was spoken about and especially what you think of this policy of closing the exits, considering also the fact that after the immigrants that stay in Libya, as has also been documented by investigations, live in inhuman conditions, in very, very precarious conditions. Thanks.
Pope Francis: The meeting with Minister Gentiloni was a personal meeting and not about that topic. It was before this issue, which came out later, some weeks later. Almost a month later. (It was) before this issue. Secondly, I feel the duty and gratitude toward Italy and Greece because they opened their hearts to immigrants, but it’s not enough to open the heart. The problem of the immigrant is: first an ever open heart, it’s also a commandment of God, no? “Receive them, because you have been a slave in Egypt.” But a government must manage that problem with the virtue proper of a governor: prudence. What does that mean? First: How many places do I have? Second: Not only to receive… (but to) integrate, integrate. I’ve seen examples, here in Italy, of precious integrations. I went to Roma Tre University and three students asked me questions. One was the last one. I looked at her and said, “I know that face.” It was one who, less than a year earlier, had come from Lesbos with me in the plane. She learned the language, is studying biology. They validated her classes and she continued. She learned the language. This is called integrating. On another flight, I think when we were coming back from Sweden, I spoke about the policy of integration of Sweden as a model. But also Sweden said prudently: this number I cannot do. Because there exists the danger of no integration. Third: it’s a humanitarian issue. Humanity takes awareness of these concentration camps, the conditions, the desert… I’ve seen photographs. First of the exploiters. The Italian government gives me the impression that it is doing everything, in humanitarian work, to resolve the problem that it cannot assume. Heart always open, prudence, integration, humanitarian closeness.
And there is a final thing that I want to say, above all for Africa There is a motto, a principle in our collective consciousness: Africa must be exploited. Today in Cartagena we saw an example of human exploitation, in any case. A chief of government said a truth about this: those who flee from war are another problem, but there are many who flee from hunger. Let us invest there so that it may grow, but in the collective consciousness there is the issue that when the developed nations go to Africa it’s to exploit it.
Africa is a friend and must be helped to grow. Today, other problems of war go in another direction. I don’t know if I clarified with this.
Xavier Le Normand (iMedia): Holy Father, today you spoke in the Angelus, you asked that all kinds of violence in political life be rejected. Thursday, after Mass in Bogota, you greeted five Venezuelan bishops. We all know that the Holy See is very committed to a dialogue with this country. For many months you have asked for an end to all violence. But President Maduro, on one hand, has many violent words against the bishops, and on the other hand says that he is with Pope Francis. Would it not be possible to have stronger and perhaps clearer words? Thank you.
Pope Francis: I think that the Holy See has spoken strongly and clearly. What President Maduro says, he can explain. I don’t know what he has in his mind, but the Holy See has done a lot, it sent there – with the working group of four ex-presidents there – it has sent a first-level nuncio. After speaking with the people, it spoke publicly. Many times in the Angelus I have spoken about the situation, always looking for an exit, helping, offering help to get out. It seems that it’s a very hard thing, and the most painful is the humanitarian problem, the many people who escape or suffer…we must help to resolve it in anyway (possible). I think the UN must also make itself heard there to help.
Greg Burke: Thank you, Holiness. I think we have to go.
Pope Francis: For the turbulence? They say there is some turbulence and we need to go. Many thanks for your work. And once more I’d like to thank the example of the Colombian people. I would like to conclude with an image. What most struck me about the Colombians in the four cities was the people in the streets, greeting me. What must struck me is that the father, mother, raised up their children to help them see the Pope and so the Pope could bless them, as if saying, ‘This is my treasure, this is my hope. This is my future.’ I believe you. This struck me. The tenderness. The eyes of those fathers, of those mothers. Precious, precious. This is a symbol, a symbol of hope, of future. A people that is capable of having children and then shows them to you, make them see as well, as if saying, ‘This is my treasure,’ is a people that has hope and future. Many thanks.
[…]
As I’ve written before, everyone is waiting for the next conclave and the end of this thoroughly wretched pontificate. Its passing will be mourned solely by court queens and malcontents.
We are beyond another conclave to fix the mess. We await God’s intervention and purification of the Church.
I agree with you John.
The Pope and those catholics that want to change God’s Statues he gave in the book Leviticus. He is the “LORD GOD our GOD” They need to read them carefully.
The Pope and Archbishops it’s their responsiblity to remove thoses wolves in sheep clothing not moving them to different parishes. All catholics know our “LORD JESUS CHRIST” does not want these wolves continuing preying on children.
Disagree wholeheartedly with this opinion Holy Father Francis has brought much needed mercy and compassion to the fore during his pontificate long may he remain in office
Yet no mercy for those Catholics who love the Latin Mass, right John?
Amen to that! I stand with you on this. The Holy Father is Peter! And his mercy and compassion are being heard by all but the naysayers, Pharisees of the modern world.
When progressives claim “naysayers” they really mean “cisgendered moral heterosexuals with too many children”.
No mercy for the TLM, because the TLM encourages large productive families, and Laudato Si made us the religion of birth control, abortion, and protecting the planet instead.
Agreed!
Mercy towards whom? Sodomites, perverts, and those who cover for them? But the Faithful must be crushed.
Mercy & compassion to whom, exactly? Mercy & compassion require justice, which includes admonishing the sinner & instructing the ignorant (as the term was originally defined – those who do not know the truth, not as the slur it has become today). Bergoglio does neither. He surrounds himself with those who do not adhere to the tenets of the church, he “cancels” good & faithful clerics, while promoting those who push sinful lifestyles. He has introduced actual idol worship in the form of the pachamama “earth mother”, while apologizing for those faithful men who threw the offending idol into the Tiber. He mandates those who visit the Vatican to take the abortion-tainted poison that is misnamed a “vaccine”. He allowed churches to be shut down during the China flu “crisis”, while saying nothing about abortion mills & alcohol distributors remaining open. He wants to eliminate the 1000 year old Latin Masses. He does not shepherd the sheep, but is, in effect, leading us right into the den of wolves. He is a disaster. Please explain how these actions show “mercy & compassion”.
So sad. I cling to the promise that Jesus gave St. Peter: “I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16: 18).
God will intervene. Don’t know when or how, but He will preserve His True Church.
As long as one small monk in a hermitage keeps the faith, Catholicism will survive the racist pharisees of the Progressive South Americans.
Remember, when a liberal accuses you of something, it’s because they are guilty of it themselves.
Expressing “sadness” is a sort of “public affairs” approach to expressing one’s feelings of concern in the Catholic Church today.
Messaging one’s “sadness” is designed, it seems primarily, to express one’s feelings inside, while avoiding hurting other people’s feelings.
Unfortunately, this manner of communicating doesn’t really seem equal in magnitude to the Church’s purported self-identity as “The Body of Christ.”
It’s not that “being sad” doesn’t matter. On the other hand, in the contemporary Church, the growing impression being made is that “being sad” (or “being happy”) is “the biggest thing that matters.”
It’s a way of avoiding stronger words of concern.
Such as, the Church isn’t “serious.” That critique appears to in this essay at First Things:
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2023/04/who-killed-the-catholic-university
In that essay the author, Mr. Keating, talks about the death of the Catholic faith in “Catholic universities,” and the take-over by administrators and faculty hostile to the Catholic belief in the harmony of faith and reason, as expressed in, among other documents, Veritatis Splendor.
And by “death,” what Mr. Keating is alluding to is that some 90% if the 200-odd “supposedly” Catholic universities have the malignant cancer of hostility to the Catholic faith.
It’s the recap of the malignant manifesto “The Land of Lakes Statement” (1968?), penned by dissident “priest-President-warlords” of the Catholic University establishment, including the infamous head of Notre Dame, Reverend Hesburg, a herd of like-minded Jesuits, and the man we now recognize to be the diabolical sex abuser, co-engineer of the “Secret-Vatican-Accord-with-the-Chinese-Communist-Party,” and the “USCCB’s designated-liar-on-Canon-Law-and-the-Eucharist,” Theodore McCarrick.
If the Church is really intent on “following” Christ, instead of merely “giving people that impression,” one might expect that instead of communicating our “sadness,” we might opt to communicate our “grief.”
But perhaps even at this late hour, “grief” may yet be overstating the case.
For grief indicates an acknowledgment of death.
But, we are now free to admit ourselves to the army once led by the late Cardinal Pell, who was, as Sandro Magidter revealed, the suthor of the “Demos” letter, and who, on January 11, 2023, published in his own name, that the Church right now (via this rotten Synod stunt) is a “toxic nightmare,” and we must work to “free ourselves from this toxic nightmare.”
Those words communicate something a lot more compelling than “sadness.” They recognize reality, and are a call-to-arms, and in their magnitude, are worthy of the Author of The Great Commission, the Head of the Body of Christ, to whom is given “All Authority in Heaven and Earth.”
It’s time for combat, not sadness.
As Mr. Keating correctly observes, the overwhelming majority of “supposedly-Catholic” universities are dead, that is, “dead-to-the-Catholic-faith.”
Surely, Mr. Keating is right to use the word “grief” for the former “supposedly Catholic” universities.
Is the Catholic Church itself now cancerous? I conclude: “Yes.”
Is the cancer malignant? I don’t know, but it is wide-spread, with tumors showing in the Bishop of Rome.
So perhaps the word to use here is not “sadness” about the state of the Church, but “alarm” about its “grievous condition.”
A few weeks ago, Cardinal Pell was reported to be the used the word “
Thank you, Chris, for reporting on the state of Rome and the Truth it doesn’t know.
Thank you Meiron.
Truth matters, especially hard truths, because Jesus went through a tough life, and a brutal execution, out of love gor us, that despite ourselves, we might know the truth, and be free…free of the chains forged by our own lying, sinful selves.
Well said Chris,
Aquinas examined the relationship between the passions (emotions), virtue and gifts (of the Holy Spirit). One could argue, with Aquinas’ foundation, that the Holy Spirit dwells not where sadness continues to reign.
The ebb and flow of godliness! When the church wanes, men and women who love the Lord and value the church rise up to hold the banner of God eternal truth. Bad times cause those of faith to coalesce into a unified body honouring Christ.
The church will prevail, it will do its God given duty despite the wolves in the church and the jackals outside. Alas, too many consider Papa part of the dilemma rather than a problem solver?
God tells us of His plans in Holy Scripture. He provides insight into what is to come and gives peace and assurance to those who love Him.
Thank you for honouring God, it is a blessing.
Many in the string blame Francis for the state of the church today. In truth it was John Paul and Benedict who allowed the spread of pederasty and child abuse which has infected the church to such a degree that the faithful are falling by the wayside and the church is collapsing.Benedict saw the mess he created and resigned to escape implication and scandal. Frances has removed the enablers and we should pray for his success in saving what’s left. The Synodal Way is a deep forensic dive into the dysfunctions brought on by gay Cardinals partying in their palaces with call boys. That is what we should be sad about.
“Frances has removed the enablers …”
Good one.
Very good post, Chris in Maryland. But I think we should be beyond grief and into outrage. I would like to see some outrage from Bishops give the pushing of LGBT on school children, extreme state pro abortion laws, instead of statements such as “We find this very problematic.”
Agree 100% Crusader.
Hence my words: “It’s time for combat, not sadness.”
I am of course outraged by the patently obvious injustice and immorality on display by the cohort of “Team Francis,” and whatever former names they called themselves, including “the St. Galen’s Mafia.”
Such deserve to be fought and defeated, for the sake of the heart of Jesus.
Yes the kow towing to the CCP is indeed nauseating and confusing. Combine this with the Pope throwing his weight behind the covid vaccination programme and what we have is a disaster of mega proportions. People had genuine moral concerns regarding the vax and they also had grave objections to being told what to do with their bodies. Since Christian time began we have been taught that missing Sunday Mass was a grave sin and yet the church closed its doors and often pursued priests who tried to attend to their flock. Please do not underestimate the gravity of these rulings. They showed the church up as hypocritical and many believe rightly or wrongly that church doors only opened up because the coffers were running low. The situation on the ground is more fraught than many in the establishment appear to realise and as far as I can see it will take divine intervention to interrupt the fiddle playing in Rome.
Well written. I am deeply concerned about what this Pope has done to all of us. I have no idea how we will recover. I can only pray for us, the Church, and us, humanity.
This article dated 2023 is years late and more than a dollar short. What is the point of reporting now about horses that left the barn 6, 7, 8, and 9 years ago. The writer with all his supposed connections in the Vatican should have written this years ago.
IF Pope Francis actually counseled Spanish seminarians to always give absolution (even absent penitence and conversion)–perhaps the recent CWR posting was in error and pulled?–THEN this would be yet another cause for grief.
Compare with the sound legacy from St. John Paul II and his “Reconciliation and Penance (Reconcillatio et Paenitentia, n. 16, Dec. 2, 1984) which includes this:
“…every soul that rises above itself, raises up the world” (citing Elizabeth Leseur).
Well, clearly, there’s no need today for raising up either the soul or the world!
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia.html
Here’s the self-proclaimed official biographer of John Paul II in his sunset moment who has no longer access to the inner papal court looking from the outside being clueless but deceptively pretending that he still looks from the inside. The authoritative papal biographer of Francis is Austen Ivereigh.
A funny comment, for the wrong reasons. But the term “clueless but deceptively pretending” and the name “Austen Ivereigh” do belong together.
🤣
Good one, Carl!
Now that is what I call a smart and sassy comment. Love it.
Touché
I smell professional envy of one writer towards another. Or is it abomination towards the writer’s subject matter?
Your olfactory receptors are malfunctioning. I’m not envious of ideological hacks.
Touché again
Now I see, it’s your uncatholic abomination and abhorrence towards Pope Francis.
No, you see nothing. If you really could see, you’d recognize that rightly identifying Austin Ivereigh as an “ideological hack” is not an abomination in the least. It’s quite obvious to those who know how to read, think, and otherwise navigate facts. Nor does it indicate abhorrence towards Pope Francis. You are simply slandering me here, perhaps because you cannot operate on the level of reality.
I have never claimed to be the “official” biographer of John Paul II and indeed have spent two decades correcting people who say that when introducing me. As for being “inside,” I am quite inside enough to know exactly what I’m talking about in this column — and to know that the votaries of this pontificate are trafficking in fantasy on this tenth anniversary.
He is your religious leader and you are biting at his heels like a pack of dogs? You should be ashamed of yourselves. As a theologian, I am ashamed of this site.
When the Pope is not following the guidelines that he is suppose to, we must speak up. That’s our job.
Christ is our leader, the Head of the Church; Francis is merely his Vicar. And to the degree that Francis guards the faith and guides the flock in following Christ, we follow. When the shepherd (any shepherd at any level) loses his way, we must distance ourselves, and double back to the true path. He has our prayers, but why would we slavishly follow him over a cliff?
Yes, of course we may be dogs, and yes, of course we travel in a pack, nipping or biting as necessary when wolves attack. God is our leader and teacher. He who is against Him is against us.
Dear Karen:
Though I respect what you say, what should be done to correct one who departs from the faith and church tradition on too many counts? Should the faithful stand idly by and not mummer a word? As a theologian you know there is a procedure to deal with wrong-mindedness.
Allow me to say that CWR is a goad for positive change and a field to let off steam.
God bless you in your role. May you encourage many souls to follow Christ,
Brian
1 Timothy 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
Cardinal John Henry Newman–the “Father of the Second Vatican Council and, by Pope Francis, named a saint in 2019–had this to say about this and that…
“. . . I know well . . . . that, in some states of society [or even the Church], such as our own, it is the worst charity, and the most provoking, irritating rule of action, and the most unhappy policy, not to speak out, not to suffer to be spoken out, all that there is to say. Such speaking out is under such circumstances the triumph of religion, whereas concealment, accommodation, and evasion is to co-operate with the spirit of error–but not always so” (Preface to the Third Edition, “Via Media,” London, 1895, Vol. 1).
Yes, Newman is addressing the voice of the Church toward society, and does add that at some times “it is wiser and kinder to let well alone than to attempt what is better.”. . . “Let well enough alone?”
Surely the central counsel against obsequious silence applies within the Church as well, and even to the clericalist and dark pattern of ambiguity found today in signaling, omissions, corrupt appointments, and accommodation–none of which is exempt from simply having the lights turned on. . . even by the a well-informed peasantry free from transfer, or being passed over, or being fired (as you would phrase it, a “pack of dogs”).
If you were truly a theologian, truly, you would understand exactly why people feel the way they do about this bankrupt papacy. Maybe the shame is on you for supporting it?
Don’t hide your common sense under a basket.
Karen,
Could you provide us with a link to some of your published work in theology? If not, a CV that lists your theological publications will do. Thanks.
As the editor, I’m tolerant of your comment. As a theologian, I’m amused by your comment.
Touché again again
The Holy Spirit guides each good Christian on a daily basis but also directs human history in ways that are unfathomable by man. The complete collapse of the Byzantine Empire in 1475 happened at the same day as the Castilian consolidation of Catholics against the Moors in Spain. The virtual end of the Confederacy happened on July 4th 1863 with victories on the same day at Gettysburg in the East and Vicksburg in the West. And on the same day that the first Jews were murdered at Auschwitz with Zyklon-B the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor forcing the U.S. to enter WW2. All good Christians have faith – Mark 4: 35-41.
Cool. Thank you.
1453.
Sorry. Couldn’t let that one pass. I’m married to a Byzantinist. 🙂
As we Catholics worldwide celebrate the 10th anniversary of the papacy of Pope Francis, I believe it also should not be forgotten how in the past ten years some Catholic American media outlets, CWR included, have evolved and grown in their opposition to and loathing of Pope Francis. Or at least his teachings, words, and actions. At best, they might accept him to the extent that he agrees with them. But this is abundantly clear: Pope Francis isn’t their teacher or shepherd, to them he’s a political figure (or in some cases nothing more than a reality show contestant) that they feel free to critique, analyze, judge, jeer, and explain away. This is not how Catholics should see the Pope.
“loathing…”
Does language not mean a damn thing anymore?
Dear Pedro:
All followers of Christ have a duty to speak the truth in love. Love is being forthright and rebuking what is wrong! Actions worthy of praise will reap accordingly.
God Bless you,
Brian
Luke 17:3 Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,
Matthew 18:15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
James 5:20 Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
To Brian Young:
As I am indeed a follower of Jesus Christ, I now speak the truth out of love by reminding you that you are disobeying Christ Himself by obstinately rejecting His command and proudly remaining outside the One True Church of Christ in whatever form of heretical Protestantism you are practicing and preaching.
Bonus gift for you: The legitimate interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 comes from the Catholic Church, and contrary to heretical beliefs and bogus interpretations, the Catholic Church correctly teaches that the cited passage regarding the profitability of Scripture does not in any way, shape, or form support the irrational, obtuse, and destructive teaching of sola scriptura preached by Protestants.
Book Recommendation For You and Others Interested in the Topic of Sola Scriptura:
Speaking of the malevolent sola scriptura doctrine, a recent short book by former Protestant Donald J. Johnson provides many fine insights into the destructive nature of sola scriptura and the damage this doctrine has wreaked on the entire world. The book is “Twisted Unto Destruction: How ‘Bible Alone’ Theology Made the World a Worst Place.”
If a Pope is skating on thin ice when it comes to leading the Church, then it is a sin against charity to remain silent in the face of it.
We are called to be sheep of the Good Shepherd, not cattle for false shepherds.
I have never claimed to be the “official” biographer of John Paul II and indeed have spent two decades correcting people who say that when introducing me. As for being “inside,” I am quite inside enough to know exactly what I’m talking about in this column — and to know that the votaries of this pontificate are trafficking in fantasy on this tenth anniversary.
Dear Sir:
Sincerity and frankness serve us well.
Aficionados of the incumbent maybe thinking of the office of Pope when giving inordinate accolades to the current occupant of the See of Rome!
To shed light on his ministry seems to paint a bleak picture in the minds of many the faithful.
God bless you,
Brian Young
To Brian Young:
In sincerity and frankness, be sure to remind people of this Catholic website that you are indeed Christian (a good start, but much more needs to be done to faithfully run the good race), but you are proudly not part of the Catholic faithful by your own choice, and that you reject many Catholic teachings and claims of the Catholic Church that this website has set forth as part of its mission to defend.
Of course, frankness also requires actually stating which branch of the omni-branched Protestantism one follows, but you have already made Hillary Clinton-type “what difference does it make” lame excuses for not exercising such frankness.
So what is it, then? Frankness for others but not for you?
Do better.
We Catholics have a proverb about one’s breadth of study and knowledge of the Bible and where that leads them: “Weak Catholics become Protestants/Evangelicals; Strong Protestants/Evangelicals become Catholics.”
A basic question ought to be, ‘Why has Almighty God caused or permitted this embarrassment to develop?’ May I suggest that we should look closely at the age of the present incumbent of the papacy when he was elected. Common experience shows that while some people remain unaffected by increasing age, this is not always the case. Cognitive ability and judgement can be affected, even to the extent of being marred by obsessions, and unfortunate personal qualities can develop that would have seemed odious to the younger person. The present incumbent’s predecessor had already brought to our attention the possibility of retirement. Are we now being more urgently asked to consider whether the papacy should ordinarily be for life? Or perhaps whether modern life expectancy, together with human frailty, might require election at a younger age, and compulsory retirement at the same age as that which now applies to all bishops except the bishop of Rome?
Proclivities of old age are first formed in youth. Some timeless truisms attest to this: Habits die hard. The child is father of the man. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Indeed, Francis today was discernible ten years ago. If we believe so-called surreptitious reports, he was no different 30-40 years ago.
Thank you, George, for an instructive article, depressingly accurate and honest as it is.
What can I do? Anything realistic?
I’ve read the article and the comments. satan is having a field day here. There is nothing more that would please satan than having Church division. Well done everyone.
Mark 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Unity can only exist in Truth. A false unity is a tool of the devil.
Pope Francis is the right Pope in the right place declare people of goodwill in Africa, Asia, Latin America, Australasia, and those living and journeying on the peripheries of the Global North. Day by day the Church is becoming a vibrant movement of forward journeying pilgrims. As always in every forward moving phenomena, there may be a few reluctant ones who refuse to move fearing insecurity and the loss of certain comforts of old.
Yours is a comforting bromide: “As always in every forward moving phenomena, there may be a few reluctant ones who refuse to move fearing insecurity and the loss of certain comforts of old.”
This Enlightenment/secularist notion even pretends validation in the Teilhardian line in Gaudium et Spes: “The Church further recognizes that worthy elements are found in today’s social movements, especially an evolution toward unity [!], a process of wholesome socialization [meaning solidarity, not Socialism] and of association in civic and economic realms” (n. 42).
BUT, then, are the “reluctant ones” actually less self-deceived than this, noting how the Enlightenment mindset not long ago fell on its face in the trenches of World War I? And, noting the non-convergence, irreducible incompleteness, and impurities of the various natural religions compared to the self-disclosure by the Triune One–in the Incarnation and Resurrection? (Impurities? Buddhist self-annihilation, Hindu transmigration, Zoroastrian and modern-day dualism, Islamic residual paganism in rejecting the Trinity as a polytheistic triad, etc.)
WHAT IF, instead of inevitable/fatalistic/Monist (?) “unity,” we still have the natural religions of “searching” as compared to actually “being found” by a supernatural act of divine self-revelation? Not a backward-looking nostalgia for “certain comforts of old” as you and others fantasize; not “forward moving phenomena” as all heavy-breathing progressives too assume, but rather a start-over Apostolic Age because the bottom has fallen out of the post-Christian chronology of world history–C.S. Lewis’s “chronological snobbery”?
Maybe it’s time to question our own predispositions—even including (inclusivity!) those “certain comforts” of a very self-assured progressive stripe?
‘My Adorable Jesus , may our feet journey together , may our hands gather in unity, our hearts beat in unison , our souls in harmony, our thoughts as one…’ – Unity prayer, highly recommended by Rev.Fr.Jim Blount
– https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9d8IpXDzro – recent talk in Seattle , how he could see a coiled serpent over the city , because of the new age and satanic practices , how we are in a time of even a fiercer battle …
Joy as an aspect of the deep trust in the Love of God – our Lord and The Mother , not deprived of that joy- in acceptance of the Divine Will with love and trust, in the midst of unimaginable sufferings , on the Way of The Cross – the above image of the Holy Father too can be seen as a mini icon of same …
The painful aspect of many in The Church rejecting the blessings , such as of the above devotions, ? even the Divine Mercy Feast- ? adding to the trials ..
https://www.catholicexorcism.org/post/exorcist-diary-231-demons-of-shame
The above recent blog post by Msgr .Rossetti , on the ‘demons of shame’- relevant to the issues , by countering same in claiming The Truth , that each of us is willed and infinitley loved by God -a truth that might be blocked in the depth of hearts in many , thus the need for renouncing and casting out the demons , to make forgiveness easier too .
Would it be that the Holy Father has taken the heroic step of being even caluminated ,to be a witness to hope, in willing to have persons around who can witness to being set free from the demons ,even if still in the process and not there yet …
Would it be too that the ‘shame’/ error of feeling unappreciated enough by those around – for own holiness and worth is the true reason for the ‘malaise’ amidst those who seems intent on opposing and fearful disdain to the call of the Holy Father to trust and expect the Holy Spirit to bless The Church and the world in surprising ways , a call that need to be heard in many hearts in these times …
Yet , there are many persons who do appreciate the good given us by our Lord in the Holy Father, even when we might be seeing only a tiny glimpse of same this side of heaven –
https://wherepeteris.com/pope-franciss-first-10-years-key-accomplishments/
As The Church gets ready to celebrate two powerful Father figures – Sts Patrick and St.Joseph , hope we too get to look at the Holy Father with the smile of heaven – St.Joseph and The Mother , dearly loved and celebrated by the Holy Father too , as a need of our times .
Glory be !
The most appropriate comment here is “If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say it at all.”
However, in order for this comment to be approved I will replace “good” with “nice.” There is a related famous (and false) movie quote which is: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say nothing at all.”
My understanding is that “nice” is defined as socially acceptable. And in certain forums the whole truth isn’t acceptable.
I will say that tyranny – but not discipline – and the papacy are like oil and water. If there is tyranny, then one can reasonably suspect some malfeasance. Whether it is doctrinal or “pastoral” is for discerning – and faithfully reasonable – persons to discover and embrace.
Glad to see we’re up on our movie quotes, specifically the Walt Disney flicks and the little rabbit Thumper in “Bambi” (1942)–the “famous” editorial censor who said: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
I don’t think that my comment was very clear. There are things I don’t say because it is highly doubtful that they would be approved. But we are obliged to speak truth even, perhaps in many cases especially, if it upsets someone.
I think that I can get by with identifying myself as a “rad rad trad” Catholic. More accurate terms would be true/orthodox Catholic. Combined with my previous comment that likely makes things clearer.
Using GOOGLE Translate on the PERFIL report, you can get some English out of it but it’s not too clear. For his 10th anniversary Pope Francis seems to reaffirm things said and done already. I found it at LIFESITE.
Opus Dei is founded on the particular inspiration of the founder Escriva and the Canon Law develops from there. This was already settled and was the occasion for momentous acclamation. Placing it “among the clergy” is a dis-assembling.
Pope Francis holds once more to the idea that time is greater than space. This is a dialectic that is originally Lenin’s scheme of how revolution spreads.
In terms of human virtue it cancels prudence. By suspending the moral foundations and other underpinnings there are no moorings and reason has no true guide.
Placing “space” as the “other determinant in the equation” is pointless; and therefore subordinating space to time arrives at nothing.
You then can’t say that moral law is rigid but obligingly replacing it with factors like reality/ideas, unity/conflict, whole/part …. “is not rigidity”. By the way these other factors also are sourced from Marxism-Leninism!
The issues are faith and reason: A’s rigidity is not the cause of B’s denials in faith or morality or sound reason, etc.; and even non-rigidity by A may contribute to evil or delay helping the good and abet B or mislead B.
https://www.perfil.com/noticias/periodismopuro/papa-francisco-se-puede-dialogar-muy-bien-con-la-economia-no-se-puede-dialogar-con-las-finanzas-por-jorge-fontevecchia.phtml
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-denies-that-hell-is-a-place-says-it-is-a-posture-towards-life/?utm_source=top_news&utm_campaign=usa
The Church is in complete free fall, thanks to this horrendous pontificate. You dont want mercy, you want the approval and affirmation of sin, specifically the sexual ones. The floor of Hell is paved with Skulls of Bishops
Our Lord is using this Pope to separate the wheat from the chaff. As painful as it is, we must suffer it well. And be sure we’re standing on the side of Christ. Pax.
I recall that Christ himself warned of the wolves in sheep’s clothing – the false prophets. The BVM at Fatima warned that the papacy itself might be infiltrated by forces of dubious intent. Perhaps the “synodal spirit” is a different spirit from the one that truly guides Christ’s Church on Earth. Or is the true spirit trying to tell us that Marxism is the way to go?