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Pope Francis told Bishop Bätzing: We don’t need two Evangelical churches in Germany

CNA Staff   By CNA Staff

Bishop Georg Bätzing, chairman of the German bishops’ conference, meets with Pope Francis at the Vatican, June 24, 2021. (Vatican Media)

Vatican City, Jun 14, 2022 / 04:55 am (CNA).

Pope Francis said in an interview published on Tuesday that he told the leader of Germany’s Catholic bishops that the country already had “a very good Evangelical Church” and “we don’t need two.”

The pope recalled his remark to Bishop Georg Bätzing, chairman of the German bishops’ conference, during a conversation with the editors of Jesuit journals.

The dialogue, which also touched on the war in Ukraine and opposition to Vatican II, was published in La Civiltà Cattolica on June 14 but was conducted on May 19.

The pope was asked what he thought of the German “Synodal Way,” a controversial multi-year gathering of bishops and lay people to discuss four main areas: four main topics: the way power is exercised in the Church; the priesthood; the role of women; and sexual morality.

Participants have voted in favor of draft documents calling for the priestly ordination of women, same-sex blessings, and changes to Church teaching on homosexual acts, prompting accusations of heresy and fears of schism.

The Evangelical Church in Germany, a federation of 20 Lutheran, Reformed and United regional churches, ordains women as priests and bishops and permits the blessing of same-sex unions.

Pope Francis told the editors: “To the president of the German Episcopal Conference, Bishop Bätzing, I said: ‘In Germany, there is a very good Evangelical Church. We don’t need two.’”

“The problem arises when the synodal path comes from the intellectual, theological elites, and is much influenced by external pressures. There are some dioceses where the synodal way is being developed with the faithful, with the people, slowly.”

Bätzing, who has led the German bishops’ conference since March 2020, expressed disappointment with Pope Francis in an interview published in May.

“The pope, even in the Catholic Church, even with all the powers vested in him, is not someone who could turn the Church from its head onto its feet, which is what we would like,” the bishop of Limburg said.

Bätzing has rejected concerns — expressed by Church leaders from Poland, the Nordic countries, and around the world — that the Synodal Way could lead to schism.

Both the Catholic Church and the Evangelical Church in Germany are seeing an exodus of members.

Pope Francis wrote an extensive letter to Catholics in Germany in 2019. Addressing what he called the “erosion” and “decline of the faith” in the country, he called on the faithful to convert, pray, and fast, as well as proclaim the Gospel.

The pope referred to the letter in his conversation with the editors.

“I wrote it myself, and it took me a month to write it. I did not want to involve the curia. I did it by myself. The original is Spanish and the one in German is a translation. That is where you will find my thoughts,” he said.

Pope Francis also discussed the future of the embattled German Cardinal Rainer Woelki, who has faced intense pressure to step down as the leader of the Cologne archdiocese.

The pope confirmed Woelki in the post after an apostolic visitation of the archdiocese and permitted him to take a period of leave. When the 65-year-old cardinal returned, the archdiocese announced that he had submitted his resignation.

The pope said: “When the situation was very turbulent, I asked the archbishop to go away for six months, so that things would calm down and I could see clearly. Because when the waters are rough you cannot see clearly.”

“When he returned, I asked him to write a letter of resignation. He did and he gave it to me. And he wrote a letter of apology to the diocese. I left him in his place to see what would happen, but I have his resignation in hand.”

Pope Francis went on: “What is happening is that there are a lot of pressure groups, and under pressure it is not possible to discern. Then there is an economic issue for which I am considering sending a financial team. To be able to discern, I am waiting until there is no pressure.”

“The fact that there are different points of view is fine. The problem is when there is pressure. That does not help. I do not think Cologne is the only diocese in the world where there are conflicts, though. I treat it like any other diocese in the world that experiences conflict. I can think of one where the conflict has not yet ended: Arecibo in Puerto Rico, has been in conflict for years. There are many dioceses like that.”


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11 Comments

  1. A great tactical soundbite or a hopeful turn of direction? With a kindly objective assessment His Holiness granting him the best of intentions to justly modify legalism for a more friendly user Catholicism he must realize the radicalization of the German Church finds its source in Amoris Laetitia, his and the defenses of others Cupich, McElroy in particular. Either he assumes his responsibility and takes corrective action, not words, or the German experiment in pseudo Catholicism will spread like the moral leprosy that it is.
    We wait with bated breath. We sincerely pray.

  2. The Evangelical Church in Germany is not a good church. It is a satanic wasteland. A church that was genuinely evangelical, one that knew what the gospel is and was willing to preach it, would be a vast improvement over what is currently calling itself the “Evangelical Church”.

  3. Good to see how God allows these situations , to thus allow common persons too to see how they are applicable to various areas in lives , such as the wisdom and focus given to the role of ‘pressure ‘ in making decisions , often the tactic used by deceptive characters as a business ploy as well . Carnality , the related greed and envy as the basic pressures that likely afflicted Martin Luthur ..
    interesting use of the phrase by the Holy Father in saying how the current Evangelical Church in Germany is ‘very good ‘ – ? in being faithful in similar foot steps ..thus , all the more reason for the Catholic Church to be the counter force as has always been the role – as remineded on the Pentecost homily , about the two agents that can ‘push ‘ persons – Holy Spirit or evil spirits .. a pattern also playing out at vast levels in what is going on around us including in sins against life – the compassionate mention by the Holy Father , about the ‘ hiring the hit man’ wisley pointing to where the process often orignates,yet often neglected by many who work with the issue , including omission in prayers ..
    similar pressures at work in demands to allow carnal passions to become the false gods , the very lie at the root of other faiths that see gods themselves as either afflicted by such or using the lure to dangle as the pressure to make persons to become killers with the falsehood as to how heaven is all about carnality !
    Russia and its aggression – another giant example of the pressure that come from
    evil spirits ? related to sins against life ..

    The Truth of the holy , innocent , ever deepening Love and glory in the Trinity as The Life that also is of unity in Love , its joyful praise with all in heaven is what is destined for the believers to be The Truth in ‘ pressure ‘ that the Holy Spirit desires to bring , along with all related fruits and gifts .. using The Church for the vain gloriuos posturing , which too is rooted in carnality, manifesting as ‘polite demons’ – had puzzled about the use of that word of the Holy Father ;
    ? referring to that other ‘pressure point ‘ mentioned in the last part of the article ..hope there are many who sort of groan with the Holy Spirit in the pressures faced by the Holy Father and allow same to be transformed into prayers as well as open hands for the upcoming Peter’s Pence collection 🙂

    • There is no historical evidence that Luther was motivated by carnality, greed, or envy. It might be good to brush up on your history.

  4. If my recollection serves me well, I believe that one Jesus Christ was often under “intense pressure.” I always thought that Christ expected bishops to shepherd God’s people with the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit in turbulent times and in times of repose.

  5. Bergoglio says, “We don’t need two” Evangelical Churches in Germany?

    I have to say, I agree with him.

    What we need in Germany — and throughout most of Europe — is one Catholic Church.

  6. In his defence, I don’t think Pope Francis approves of what ze German Schismatics are doing. But given that they constitute a strong element of his support basis, I doubt he will have the courage to act against them, sadly.

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