By “There are conflicts and issues in the world that cannot be solved diplomatically, no matter how hard you try,” Rubio said.
In a May 13 interview on Fox News, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio reflected on his May 7 meeting with Pope Leo XIV, emphasizing the different vantage points and distinct roles of the Church and a nation-state.
In the interview, Rubio acknowledged the Catholic Church’s longstanding position advocating for peace and the avoidance of war while drawing a clear distinction between the Church’s role and the duties and responsibilities of nation states.
While saying the U.S. also seeks peace, Rubio affirmed that the countryʼs position on war is “different,” because it is “a nation state.”
“For a nation state, which is different from a religious office, for a nation state there are threats to your security and to the well-being of your people that have to be addressed, ideally through diplomatic means, but there are conflicts and issues in the world that cannot be solved diplomatically, no matter how hard you try,” Rubio said, pointing to years of failed diplomacy with Iran and other past examples.
He said there have not been “any results” despite “over a decade of work done to try to diplomatically solve Iran’s desire and ambition to have a nuclear weapons program.”
Recalling World War II, Rubio asked: “What was the diplomatic solution for … Adolf Hitler, as an example? There was none, right? And unfortunately, it led to real war. So that’s where I think the realm of the geopolitical is different.”
Nevertheless, he emphasized that Catholics, like himself, must balance their faith with their duty to their nation.
“We are obviously guided by our faith, and we’re instructed by our faith. That’s the compass by which we live our lives,” Rubio said. “We also have an obligation to the national security of our country, and that has to be taken into account. That’s our primary job — is to keep Americans safe. And that’s why we’re involved in Iran. That’s why we’re involved in anything we do around the world.”
Rubio described his meeting with the American pontiff as positive and unusually straightforward.
“This is an American pope. We spoke for over an hour. We talked about a lot of topics,” Rubio said.
Rubioʼs remarks come amid ongoing U.S. actions in Iran and public differences between the Trump administration and the Holy See on the conflict.
Ahead of Rubio’s meeting with Leo, President Trump told EWTN News that the secretary of state’s key message should be: “Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.”
On May 5, Pope Leo XIV said “The Church has spoken for years against all nuclear weapons, so there is no doubt there.”
On May 8 the State Department posted a clip of Rubio on X following his meeting with the pope, in which he said “of course” he had wanted “to hear the perspective of the most important, far-reaching religious leader in the world … on what his bishops and others are hearing in the Western Hemisphere, the plight of Christians in Africa … and Lebanon.”
On the subject of the U.S. position on the Iran war, Rubio said “We’re capable of having that position and expressing that position clearly and also working cooperatively, as we have for decades, with the Vatican, with the Catholic Church.”
“We were able to talk about these different areas of the world where they have a presence, where they are engaged, and we are as well,” Rubio said.
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Overhanging the dialogue between the Church and Western nation-states is the out-of-control (?) trajectory of Technocracy, and the vaporousness of words.
A few points to ponder:
FIRST, the application of cumulative scientific advances channeled largely to military equipment, e.g., in the short twenty years from WWI to WWII, from wooden bi-planes to B-29s, and from TNT to atomic bombs, with later Cold War stockpiles having topped out at a million (!) times what was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
SECOND, now, outstripping both the moral lens and the modern nation-state political idiom (mostly an artifact of the Treaty of Westphalia in Europe following the Thirty Years War, A.D. 1648) as our frame of reference, a non-European and pre-modern jihadist enclave–on the threshold of nuclear weapons. The reported 900 pounds of 60% enriched uranium hidden in Iran is mathematically equivalent to 6 times the amount of uranium dropped on Hiroshima (141 pounds) or 30 times the amount of plutonium dropped on Nagasaki (13.6 pounds).
THIRD, lacking today, as always, is the rudimentary imagination (!) to simply see what the table talk is really all about.
The story is that Genghis-khan Stalin was not much interested in the theoretical atomic bombs and Russian nuclear program until after he had seen photographs of the two vaporized Japanese cities. Then after another 80 years we now have a proliferation of nine nation-states as nuclear powers…and the very plausible threat of another of a more different vintage–a 7th-century jihadist tribe veneered with a so-called “nation-state” letterhead. (the nine: Russia, United States, China, France, United Kingdom, India, Pakistan, Israel, North Korea).
FOURTH, and now Hormuz, no longer as an international waterway…well, does this remind us of nearly three centuries of unsuccessful Crusades when in the late 11th century the international pilgrimage routes to the Holy Land were closed by the Seljuk Turk Muslims? How did that work out? Even with siege towers and trebuchets and all that relatively benign earlier technology.
SUMMARY: How to do moral theology, dialogue, modern nation-state diplomacy, and other more existential and technological options, when the entire entangled situation is both pre-modern and post-modern…and surreal?