In my usual—well, slightly unkempt—priestly black clothing and white tab collar, I arrived at the voting station this morning, ready to do my civic duty. As I walked in, an older man—maybe my age or a bit older—approached with a voter guide in hand. He was friendly, clearly a poll activist. We priests often keep our views to ourselves outside the walls of our churches, but I’m always alert for opportunities to discuss the pressing moral issues of our day.
I hope I am not too annoying as I invoke Catholic principles as the prudential clearinghouse for evaluating elected officials. Can’t hurt, methinks.
He offered me his guide. Expecting agreement because of my garb, he smiled. I glanced at it and realized we were polar opposites. Respectfully, I asked, “Do your candidates stand for the protection of innocent unborn life?”
He replied, “That’s not the only issue.”
“Yes,” I said, “but it’s foundational. Get that wrong, and you’ll get everything else wrong too.”
He admitted he wasn’t too keen on abortion himself, but then countered, “They’re killing innocent people in Gaza.”
I agreed: indiscriminate killing of civilians by all sides is immoral. The Fifth Commandment governs all humanity—it doesn’t take sides. But he returned to abortion, following a familiar script. When he asked about life-threatening pregnancies, I explained that even in those rare cases, we must not choose evil to achieve good. To illustrate, I gave an example that tends to unsettle most Americans (and probably most American Catholics): “That’s how Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the firebombing of Tokyo were justified. The IDF similarly justifies killing innocents.” We must not condone evil means for good ends. I was slightly surprised that my stridency did not end the conversation.
He seemed reluctant to agree, then questioned my motives: “Why aren’t you preaching this to your people?”
“I do,” I told him. “But some parishioners think I’m being political when I preach and apply the Ten Commandments. Others are perplexed or annoyed.” I added playfully, “I can’t even persuade you!” He didn’t respond to the benign jab.
Then he brought up another grievance: “Catholics want to close the town library.” I noted the broad brush he painted. Hey, Catholics are people too!
Then I clarified, “I’m not for shutting it down, but I am for removing immoral material. You mean the so-called transgender content, don’t you? Science shows there are distinctions—boys and girls. Follow the science—be reasonable—and remove the immorality.”
Finally, I realized the probable reason for his persistence: he had the attention of a priest—and a talkative one at that. He admitted he used to be Catholic—baptized, confirmed, raised his kids in the faith—but left because of “too many bad Catholics.” Time was short, and I was late for my nap, so I offered a brief comparison: Jeremiah and Isaiah condemned apostasy in ancient Israel, not the faith of the Chosen People. The Catholic Church is universal, and her teachings judge all human behavior, not only the faithful.
The conversation shifted briefly to Trump. He said he didn’t like him and complained that he’s “omnipresent.” I got his drift. A lot of talkative people, ahem, can be annoying. I said, “So don’t vote for him. Every ballot has a write-in option. Write in my dog instead. She’s in my truck over there. Molly is pro-life, she opposes terrorism and the indiscriminate attacks on civilians, and she follows the science—she knows the difference between boys and girls.”
He wanted to meet Molly, so I brought him to my truck (without the shotgun mounted in the back). She greeted him as a happy puppy, without guile and overlooking his politics, as that little narcissist does with every stranger.
We parted amicably. The encounter, though full of argument and debate, remained civil. It is possible for two strangers to stand outside a polling place, discuss life and death, faith and truth—and end with mutual kindness. The dog helped. Who woulda thunk it? I’ll add him to my prayer list and hope he does the same.
After 35 years as a priest, I’ve never had a truly unpleasant encounter—well, outside the parish sitcom. Today’s experience continues that streak. The good guys lost this one—big time. It was a painful loss. The noble Winsome Sears lost, though she stood firmly for the dignity of unborn babies. As a keynote speaker at this year’s March for Life rally in Richmond, she asked the crowd of about 2,000 attendees, “We stand for life—and how can it ever be wrong to stand for life?” Exactly.
Looking forward to next year’s election day, I’ll continue to seek out the folks handing out those voter guides—and I’ll make sure to bring my dog (if she’s still pro-life). As U.S. Grant said after the first day of bloody Shiloh, we’ll whip them tomorrow. Maybe—with God’s grace.
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Father,
Please publicize this youtube video from Dr. Anthony Levatino M.D. Gynecologist Obstetrician and former abortionist detailing the horrors of abortion procedures, including the pill, at the different stages of pregnancy. Show it especially to young women who are not told in school the true details of abortion at the different stages; in this video age this is a most effective way to combat the killings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hqoLEhrGmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFZDhM5Gwhk&t=269s
So MAGA is the answer? By the way, are we “Great” yet? I thought that we were entering a “new golden age.” So far, things just keep getting worse.
Please re read the article.😃🙏
Whether MAGA is “the answer” or not, cleaning out the Augean stables is quite messy and takes time. Besides, the effort is not aimed at producing Utopia in any event. That’s the far-fetched dream of the Left.
Touché
Beginning list of better things:
1. gasoline prices down…
2. Zero illegal immigrant border crossings.
3. Zero federal funds for fiendish doctors and their lawyers for their atrocities conducting live human experiments on kids and young people by surgically and chemically destroying their bodies.
4. Frauds in NATO countries now actually paying what they promised and reneged on for 50+ years.
Yes, it doesn’t help to be casually unconcerned about people voting against Trump.
To Leo:
It appears that from the sequence of comments you may be replying to my comment noting “what’s getting better.”
Perhaps you are replying to another comment, since your assertion doesn’t involve the things I mentioned.
It may be that you will clarify what your comment involves?
There are no innocent Palestinians being killed by the IDF. That’s a patently ridiculous and false assertion. Likewise, there were no innocent Japanese citizens in Tokyo, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki. The Japanese army killed 15 million people. Stop asserting manipulative false statements, Jerry. You are defending the indefensible here. Priests aren’t supposed to knowingly lie.
No innocent Japanese civilians in Hiroshima? How about children?
Guilty by association. War is hell, as William T. Sherman noted.
I remain unconvinced about claims that insist Hiroshima and Nagasaki were absolutely right or absolutely wrong.
No human being can’t be moved by the accounts of people with skin hanging from their flesh or other horrific thermal or radiological injuries. Then again, the deaths at places like Normandy, Iwo Jima and Tarawa, with some men desperately trying to contain their shredded intestines are also horrific.
With that in mind, I am also aware of how inhumane the Empire was before and during the war, the Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March and Unit 731’s rivalry with Mengele for superlative medical atrocities, the arial and terrestrial Kamikazes, the Imperial Government bears some responsibility for the deployment of these bombs. Tojo and the rest of the gang made it easy too forget Japan was inhabited by human beings and not inhuman monsters.
I don’t know how God judged Truman’s soul, I have no idea how God would have judged his soul in the counterfactual where the man who had months to learn about these weapons-and only after King Roosevelt expired-failed to use them and the Imperial war machine persisted until they dispatched children as bomb couriers and millions more perished.
I do know that once the public found out that these weapons existed and maybe a million more families lost sons-and the news reels showed the endless house by house suppressions and extractions and the war fatigue continued-Truman would have been dragged from the White House and decapitated.
I’m glad I am not him.
War is awful mostly because it brings death, but also because it brings it’s “fog”. of decisions that involve selecting different hideous outcomes.
Well said. I agree.
To Athanasius: Of course there were innocent people killed in Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki ( two of them from Nagasaki have been named Servants of God on the way to canonization. And Gaza? Many innocent lives have been lost and even the IDF acknowledges that. I doubt there has been a war in human history where no innocent lives were lost. I get Father’s point but am at a loss to understand yours. Can you clarify or perhaps another reader can guide me here.
The line between Hamas and Gazan civilians is very blurry. Civilians may either moonlight for Hamas, work as spotters for Hamas,or can be coerced into assisting Hamas in other ways. However infants and children too young to be of any use to Hamas except as human shields are of course innocent. And those who are intimidated into enabling Hamas have less consent in their actions.
Hamas’s indoctrination begins very early.
Well put.
Very well stated Ms. McCurry. I agree.
I think I’m challenging the false assertion that Japanese citizens and Palestinians are “innocent.” Are Japanese citizens who actively, intentionally, and unilaterally supported their national leadership as it waged war against southeast Asia innocent? Are Japanese citizens who raised the men who brutally murdered 15 million people innocent? Are Palestinians who keep Hamas in power and who celebrate its atrocities innocent? My argument is that people are not nearly as innocent as we would like to believe.
Did you learn history and patriotism from Hollywood movies, Athanasius?
I also bet you get the news from trustworthy networks like NBC, ABC and Foux (Fox?) News.
No actually, I don’t.
Well of course some are guilty, and some are innocent.
That’s the way things are.
That’s wrong.
Innocent (and guilty) people get killed in wars. Innocent (and guilty) people got killed in bombarding cities in WW2, including in the dropping of the atomic bombs.
That’s simply the reality.
That’s Fr. Pokorsky to you, Athanasius.
Sorry, but no.
Interestingly enough, Nagasaki was the epicenter of Catholicism in Japan prior to its bombing.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/255054/atomic-bomb-dropped-on-nagasaki-killed-two-thirds-of-the-city-s-catholics-78-years-ago
I struggle to imagine that all of them were deserving of the fate that became of them, too.
This extract:
“We can well assume that the atomic bombs were not dropped at random. The question is therefore unavoidable: How was this chosen for the second hecatomb, among all, precisely the city of Japan where Catholicism, apart from having the most glorious history, was most widespread and affirmed?”
Indeed, the “targets” (I despise reducing an inhabited area to a mere object of penetration or destruction) were not chosen at random. The minutes of the meetings of the committees are available online.
However, Kokura was likely considered most prominently. It was secondary to Hiroshima and primary to Nagasaki. Nagasaki was the back up, and it’s possible that the Captain of the “Bockscar” dropped the bomb without visual confirmation. Kokura was spared because visual confirmation was impossible due to smoke.
You might want to discuss what went on in Vietnam with those that were in the jungle, or read about the innocents being massacred.
If everyone is guilty then what hope to we have for humanity?
I’m very disappointed that Mrs Sears lost. She’s a lovely Christian lady.
I agree.
AS is CIA.
All those DC swampers living in gated communities in Northern Virginia, I’m sure wanted one of their own.
The American Solidarity Party is unapologetically prolife, but in other ways resembles the Democrat Party of the past, when, at its best, represented working Americans—average wage earners. The Convention of States continues to pursue an avenue of Constitutional reform to bring back the original framework of genuine freedom and pursuit of happiness .that meant a roadway to eternal joy.
Thanks , Patricia: I wish more Catholics would prayerfully look into the party and what it stands for. Better than voting for a dog, however good he may be. 😇
A very interesting article, but with one flaw in my opinion.
You say,”That’s how Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the firebombing of Tokyo were justified,” indicating correctly that we deliberately targeted non-combatant civilians. As Vatican II says (LG) Any deliberate attack on cities or population centers is a crime against God and man, and can never be justified. We either believe that or we don’t.
However, you then go on to say, “The IDF similarly justifies killing innocents.” Indicating that the IDF is deliberately targeting them. I do not believe there is evidence for that statement. Additionally, the sole source for the number of deaths in Gaza is from Hamas officials. They lie, plus they never have distinguished their military deaths from civilian deaths.
A man is standing behind a wall of civilians firing at your children. You cannot shoot him without almost certainly killing some of those civilians, who are doing nothing to stop him firing and some of whom are actively cheering him on. Do you shoot, killing some civilians before you get to him, or do you refrain from shooting and let him kill your children, for whose safety you have a particular responsibility?
Moral hypotheticals are always difficult and often deflect from reality.
That hypo was pretty close to reality, though. With the exception that the IDF goes to great efforts to reduce civilian casualties & warn civilians before beginning an offensive. No other nation does that in the same way.
Fighting a war in a densely populated urban setting where civilians are purposely used as human shields is extremely difficult.
It’s not a hypothetical. It is simply a miniaturization and personalization of the situation in Gaza. Bringing moral questions down to the personal is useful because it is all too easy to take principled moral stands on other people’s actions, to exercise a kind of cost free moral preening at the expense of others. But people who do this should be made to face the question of what they would do in the same situation.
One American soldier told of having to shoot a kid the enemy sent out to get an unexploded device, I believe. I can’t imagine. I think this was in Afghanistan.
A neighbor was in Vietnam and he had issues in civilian life until he passed on.
A close relative got out in 1975 and in the 90s/2000s wanted to tell his current wife some of the stuff he did over there. +e was basically told to keep his mouth shut, by the current management.
It is a departure from reality for people to believe or argue that there were no innocent people killed in Japan (or Germany or Italy) in WW2, or any war.
The Italian Catholic author Eugenio Corti wrote a historical novel, The Red Horse, based on his personal experience as a young Catholic man, who along with all of his cousins and friends was drafted into Musolini’s army, and were forced to fight on the Russian Front with the German Army during the retreat in the Russian counter-offensive.
It is a harrowing and grim telling of the horrors that these young men endured (but in the end, a hopeful tale of trying to live a life of decency and virtue, after 5 years of hell on earth).
In one episode, as he and his friends are retreating through the countryside in the deadly winter, they come across a recent battlefield littered with hundred of dead German soldiers. The Italian soldiers would check each body for pockets to find some way to identify the bodies, so that their families could be informed of what happened to their young sons. When they went through the pockets of the dead German soldiers, Corti recounts what they found: half of the soldiers had pornographic photos in their pockets, and the half had rosaries in their pockets.
God have mercy on us.
The whole issue of mass indiscriminate killing of innocents in war all started in modern times when the Nazis began bombing London . Then the Allies followed suit. Before this , for the most part, war morality was understand to preclude this behavior. Once the Genie was let out of the bottle it is unlikely she will soon return. Any amount of civil acceptance will never take away its sinfulness. As Catholics we must condemn all such behavior. A just end never justifies an immoral means.
Mr. Connor:
While I share your lament about the killing of innocent people in war, I believe that history documents that this is a long-standing human practice from the ages.
For example, Attilla and the Huns are attributed with wholesale slaughtering of men, women and children. Likewise the Vikings slaughtered indiscriminately. Our word “decimate” comes from the butchers of the Roman Army, who when entering a conquered place, would begin the new Roman “administration” by picking every 10th man in a town or city, and killing them in front of their families and friends, to show everyone who’s boss. The enlightened French Revolutionary Army rounded up thousands of men, women and children in the Vendee and chained them on the deck of barges snd drowned them to death.
Modern men are the same homicidal species as ancient men, just with modern weapons.
True. Human nature changes little. We just have more sophisticated weaponry today.
So most of the Wermacht were secret Christians fighting against their will rather than Nazis fighting for a cause they embraced wholeheartedly? I know you don’t believe that.
Athanasius:
You assertions on this topic defy the reality of things, as for instance your strawman reply to me above.
It is you that has made the sweeping and patently untrue statement that “there are no innocents.”
As to the specifics of Hamas and Gaza, it has been reported that in recent elections, Hamas had won 75% of the vote, and I am uncertain as to whether that voting profile is restricted to Gaza alone, or perhaps involves both Gaza and the Palestinians in the West Bank.
If your point is that large portions or a large majority of the population in Gaza and the West Bank believe in using violent terror, it seems that there is ample evidence of that. Nevertheless, there are many who are innocent. There have been marches in the streets in Gaza against Hamas. And there was video posted in the last 2 weeks of Hamas executing fellow Palestinians for resistance to Hamas.
It is simply untrue to declare that there are no innocent people in Gaza, etc.
I see your point. My concern is that framing the discussion in absolute categories of innocence and guilt potentially absolves people of responsibility for the atrocities that were and are committed in their respective nations. Had World War 2 ended differently, the “innocent” German and Japanese children would have supplied their respective armies with the next generation of brutal monsters. Remember also that Palestinian men, women, and children celebrated the atrocities committed on October 7th. Not one word of protest was published.
I agree.
And I agree that civilian adults supporting Nazi-ism and Fascism and Bushido (etc) in the Axis countries are in fact guilty of complicity in the murder of millions.
And I agree that probably most Palestinians in Gaza are guity of the October 7th atrocities, and for that, I believe Israel is justified in annexing Gaza.
In the early 2000s after the 9/11 attack, the Pew Poll, a left-wing political polling outfit, ran results of extensive surveys of Islamic populations all over the globe. It asked all respondents whether they agreed with the 3 markers of violent Sharia: desth for apostates, stoning of women in adultery, and cutting off hands of thieves. The surveys were done over many months across dozens of Muslim population groups, from those places 90% Muslim to western countries with small Muslim minorities.
The top 3 most violent Islamic populations, with belief in deadly violent Sharia approved by 80% or more, if my memory serves were 3:
1. Pakistan…
2. Egypt (if I recall correctly…but if not #2…they were high up in top 10…
3. Palestinians (definitely #3, no doubt there).
And the above belief in violent Sharia is how they intend to treat fellow Muslims. So its no surprise that Palestinians in vast percentages would celebrate the October 7th slayof Jews.
Thank you for staying with the discussion. I greatly appreciate it.
About civilian and military deaths in modern wars, here are some rough approximations…after all, who’s counting?
Under Napoleon: a total of between 3.5 and 6.5 million deaths, with only 2.5 (about half) of these as military. Much of the grand total due to disease and famine.
World War I: between 15 and 25 million deaths, with 9-15 million military, and 6-10 million civilians (about 40%: due to conflict plus disease, starvation genocide). The follow-up Spanish Flu of 1918 would add another 50 million worldwide (half a million in the United States).
World War II: total dead 50-56 million military and civilian directly from the war (plus 19-28 million civilians due to disease and famine), including 21-25 million (barely half) as military deaths from all causes. (parenthetic figures are mostly famine-related deaths in Russian, China, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines, and India–often omitted from other compilations).
In Gaza: how does the ratio of civilian to military compare to the above if the mixed total of 67,000 deaths includes maybe 20,000 Hamas terrorists?
SUMMARY: The fallen world went deeper into to free-fall hell back when Napolean fully installed universal conscription (already a new novelty during the fateful French Revolution). And, about the mentioned, hyper-technocratic, and indiscriminate fireballs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, well, here are the imperfect reflections of your truly:
https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2021/08/meditations-bomb-small-town-cul-de-sac-peter-beaulieu.html
Please see what happened to the people of Constantinople (the name changed to Istanbul in an effort to erase its Greek and Christian origin by dictator Kemal Ataturk–one of the architects of the Armenian genocide), including nuns and priests, when the followers of the religion of peace conquered it. See this account by scholar R. Ibrahim:
https://www.raymondibrahim.com/2023/05/29/today-in-history-muslim-turks-sack-christian-constantinople/
Dear Father P.
Thank you for yet another excellent commentary. Sometimes it seems like beating one’s head against a wall, but it must be done—-and you do it so well!
The word indiscriminate means the following.
adjective
Not making or based on careful distinctions; unselective.
“an indiscriminate shopper; indiscriminate taste in music.”
Random; haphazard.
“indiscriminate violence; an indiscriminate assortment of used books for sale.”
Confused; chaotic.
“the indiscriminate policies of the previous administration.”
I would argue that the A Bombs were less indiscriminate than the other bombings done in World War II. The minutes of the committee that selected the “targets” are available. The thousands of conventional munitions dropped on Dresden and Tokyo were delivered with far less consideration and precision, and the V1 and V2 were launched with total disregard to any objective as they had no targeting or guidance systems.
Moreover the Japanese intentionally embedded “civilians” near factories. In part this was to conserve scarce resources because those civilians were employed in munitions production and in part to create ethical dilemmas.
One of the more unfortunate outcomes of modern mechanized war is the blurring of the line between armed, uniformed combatant. Centuries ago, this distinction was clear. One only need think of George III’s “red coats” to understand this-no modern military would deploy with such distinctive uniforms. Today environmentally appropriate camouflage is worn-or traditional civilian clothes.
Similarly, there was a time when the only people that might be essential to the production of arms were blacksmiths. In World War II, millions of individuals were involved in the production of armaments and they were as essential to the ability to prosecute war as the actual combatants.
Yes, it was tragic that a couple hundred thousands died into two explosions. Some incinerated before they could even feel pain and some had wounds that would only manifest decades later. However, millions died in that conflict and many died more painful and lingering deaths that were the equal of any of those two August 1945 days.
Japan gave every indication of being willing to militarize every last person and fight to the last death.
The very fact that they refused to surrender after Hiroshima attests to their mindless devotion to a futile continuation of the war. If there is guilt to be imputed from the use of these weapons, some of it belongs to Hirohito, Tojo and company. They started a war and refused to end it, even when it was clear that even pyrrhic victory was unattainable.
Should abortion be a political issue? Does making abortion illegal reduce the number of abortions? Did voting for Trump in 2016 and his abortion policy help reduce the number of abortions? Statistic show abortion were on the decline since 1990-2015, then in 2016 the began to rise. (Pew Research Center) Instead of men telling women what they should do, how about men telling men what they should do. Fathers teach your son not to rape and practice chastey. How about an abortion law holding the man accountable! How about mandatory child support. As long as we continue to let the man walk away free we will continue to have abortions.
I thoroughly agree.
Well, we have laws not to prevent crimes from ever being committed in the future but to bring justice to the victims and hold the guilty accountable.
No law will ever completely prevent children from being abused and exploited or women from sexual assault. But if we believe the victims deserve justice and respect we enforce laws against those crimes.
Mothers are often coerced into feticide but it’s not always the child’s father who does that. There are fathers who grieve for their children who were lost that way.
“How about an abortion law holding the man accountable!”
How is a man to be accountable if he has no say in the matter? You can’t affix responsibility to a party who has no part in a decision (by law). And exactly what do you propose as accountability?
Alyssa Milano and Chelsea handler are two abortion activists who celebrate their infanticide. They weren’t raped and they didn’t practice “chastey”. Milano procured two in one year. “Shout your abortion” is a distinctly female movement.